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Headlight upgrade suggestion for VFR750F


HumanBean

Question

Hello,

Just bought an 89 VFR750F, took it out for an evening ride though the woods and discovered that I couldn't go more than 40mph, because the light are scary bad.

Could anyone recommend a straightforward upgrade? Preferably LED. Many thanks.

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19 hours ago, VFR750F3 said:

6000k bright white BTW


they’re made by ???

 

available from ???

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Got them on ebay.  They are cheap.  I keep some regular bulbs in the car just in  case they burn out. Chinese bulbs. I installed them in Oct.  You will hear the little fans running when you turn off you ignition, but on cold days they do not run sometimes.  Now my HID's in my Rc51 are super bright that also but that all depends on your headlight design.  The RC51 and VFR800 have some big ass headlights with big reflectors inside.    

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/9005-HB3-6000K-White-COB-LED-Headlight-Kit-High-Low-Beam-4side-Light-Bulb/363093965370?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

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21 hours ago, HumanBean said:

Could anyone recommend a straightforward upgrade? Preferably LED

 

The EBay LEDs do seem to be a reasonable cheap upgrade. Some of the guys in here have tried several variations. Apparently you want the ones with the fans because those will run high and low emitters at the same time...for when you need high beams. You may also want shielded emitters so you don't blind oncoming traffic. Just a couple things to consider.

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Proper H4 operation should turn off low-beams when using high. This is to provide better distance viewing without too much glare from close-up area just in front of bike.

 

Be careful about glare to oncoming traffic. This is light spill above horizontal that's not well controlled by reflector due to LED not having same shape as incandescent filament. I'm sure you've all seen those "blue light" headlights blinding you from oncoming traffic. Having those kinds of lights creates very dangerous situation for you.

 

Try these LED lights. Better fan-less design due to proper use of copper heatsinking.  LEDs have close-to incandescent filament shape for better control and less glare.

 

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/miniature-and-subminiature-bulbs/motorcycle-h4-led-fanless-headlight-conversion-bulb-with-internal-driver-2000-lumens/5323/

 

Of course best upgrade is HID retrofit.

TacomeECEoutside.jpg.696e3250f00f65277c8b5ef52336a264.jpg

 

 

BTW - are your fork & shock pre-load set properly? And headlights adjusted properly after that?

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14 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

Proper H4 operation should turn off low-beams when using high.

 

Aw hell. Now you got me reworking a problem I thought I'd got past two years ago. So far as I understood the whole lighting thing, H4 low beams have a reflector pan underneath them. The light goes up into the headlight reflector built into the bike, and then forward down the road. High beams have no reflector pan. The light goes up and down into the rear reflector of the bike and on down the road. Like this:

 

image.png.c1f622090c4201a5ce2e78aa8523dd4b.png

 

The LEDs we want have emitters, top and bottom. The upper emitter mimics the low beam. Light goes up into the reflector. But you need both upper and lower emitter to mimic the high beam.

 

At least that's the way I had it worked out. And, only fan cooled LEDs would keep both upper and lower emitters powered up at the same time. Of course, the tech evolves quickly. Are the new fanless LEDs you link able to do that...keep both emitters on at the same time for high beam? If so, that'd be consistent with my ideas. If not...I'm muddled again.

 

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Ok, let's back up and review the electronics as well as physical layout. First, you don't want to have both low-beams and high-beams on at same time for optimum viewing. Yes, you can rig your wiring so that low-beam stays on when you turn on high, but that's useless configuration. Just trying to make out distant objects which are dimmer due to distance, while you've got much brighter near-field lighting is extremely difficult. Turning off low-beam lets you see distant objects much, much better. It's like using flashlight that you aim up to see far-off stuff in distance, foreground is no longer illuminated and all light shines in distance. There's been lots of studies and R&D on this, and that's why H4 standard was designed this way. It's two separate circuits inside the H4 bulb. One circuit is low-beam filament. Other circuit is high-beam filament.

 

This is from an auto, but you get idea. Separate inputs for two separate circuits.

1247699858_H4Socket.jpg.c2c90fe798df085d286d2c9a5d794d78.jpg

The harness-wiring & switching is what turns high-beams on and low-beams off. Light-switch is configured to power only one circuit or other with SPDT flip-flop switch.

VFR-HeadlightSwitch.gif.cfcb9fe78412b0b27f223a03dc159010.gif

This relates to your headlight's physical configuration. The forward filament is on for low-beam. There's shield underneath the filament that blocks downward light that would be upwardly-reflected into oncoming traffic's eyes. When you flip switch to high-beams, the rear unshielded filament is turned on and low-beams are turned off.

image.png

 

Well-designed LED bulbs mimics this as closely as possible with separate LED elements positioned at exact spot where incandescent filaments would be. First bulb that truly did this with good beam formation with minimal glare was Philips Ultinon.

 

PhilipsUltinon.thumb.jpg.29f663cfd30d4c17fba2e8b7feb21c9e.jpg

 

Note that these good LED bulbs have four (4) elements, 2 per side, and they fire sideways, not up & down. And they have shield to block low-beam upwardly-reflected light that becomes glare in other drivers eyes. So on low-beams, two forward low-beam LEDs are lit (one per side). Then on high, low-beam LEDs turn off and two rear high-beam LEDs are turned on.

LEDheadlightBulbSideways.thumb.png.966e25ebd22bcdb521d2325f907fbc9a.png

 

So with incandescent bulbs, there are bad ones like Sylvania & PIAA,  and really good ones from Flösser, Narva, Philips, Toshiba or Vosla. LEDs are mostly bad players with very few great ones. For LEDs, you want these features:

- separate LED elements positioned in original incandescent filament positions.

- low-beam shield to prevent lower-half of filament from being reflected upwards into oncoming traffic's eyes

- forward shroud to block uncontrolled "spill" light

- outputs most lumens in frequency-range where human-eyes are most sensitive

- +90 CRI colour rendering index, "But officer, that wasn't stop-sign, it was orange!" isn't valid excuse.

 

Read up on background tech behind lighting here: https://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/tech.html . Daniel Stern was instrumental in helping me develop eCode headlight upgrades for Porsches several decades ago. I bundled it with heavy-duty battery-cables and relay-harness with 50-year warranty. When you're standing in front of car, upgraded lights actually look dimmer because more of it is going down onto ground rather than upwards into your eyes. Both using 55w bulbs in this comparison.

 

uc?export=download&id=1i-mAbAPs4hoVf1cfC

 

 

 

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Great lot of lighting info there Danno. Thanks for that.

 

Interesting that the Australian U version 6gen has two H4's only using the 55w filaments in low beam permanently on. And high beam using two H7's 55w along with the H4 low beams.

I guess the vertical separation of the globes has a lot to do with it. I always remember the fantastic beam throw of the 6gen with all 4 globes operating in hi beam mode.

 

Sorry, have gotten slightly off topic here!

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Why thank you and you're most welcome! 👋

 

Ah yes, heat is also concern and you don't want two filaments on inside one globe! 

 

Here's comparison of raw bulb output. Light coming off front of bulb that's not controlled by reflector is called "spill" and contributes to glare into oncoming traffic's eyes. Part of H4 standard is shroud at tip of bulb to block this spill light and reduce glare.

 

AB2236C2-DBB0-4BC5-B6A7-EF1C44784ABF.thumb.jpeg.107c7d7cf90bf207673cd6903e756cdc.jpeg

 

Some LEDs don't have shroud to block light spill while others do. This should be added to list of requirements above.

 

i'm investigating possibilities of HID projector retrofit on this model. LEDs work much better in projector housings with their block-off plate to create sharp cutoff of all light above horizontal.

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Did you turn on the high beam? Is the glass fogy?

Glass was not foggy and the high beam weirdly was worse than a low beam because the light was so scattered.

 

Wow, You guys went all out, I did not expect to get reply at all. Thank you for a wealth of information, it's very useful.

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16 hours ago, HumanBean said:

Glass was not foggy and the high beam weirdly was worse than a low beam because the light was so scattered.

 

Wow, You guys went all out, I did not expect to get reply at all. Thank you for a wealth of information, it's very useful.

 

Headlight assembly (reflector & lense) is most important part of getting light on ground. If front glass isn't pockmarked from rock-chips, take close look at reflector in back. Sometimes, rubber bulb-seal doesn't get reinstalled and moisture gets in and accumulates on reflector and messes up lighting.

 

If headlight housing is OK, might be you've got crap bulbs from PO. Take those out and look for brand & model. Post photos of here.

 

Absolutely best H4 halogen bulbs you can buy comes from Flösser, Narva, Philips, Toshiba or Vosla. All others are nowhere nearly as good in terms of efficiency and output. Try this Flösser bulb with high-output high-beam. Can go 100+ and not outrun your lights.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flosser-Rally-9003-HB2-H4-100-55W-525543-Two-Bulbs-Head-Light-High-Low-Off-Road-/131578564268

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I'm familiar with Daniel Stern and have dabbled in several xenon projector retrofits, but the H4 bulb design itself is a horrible, mass-market convenience-driven compromise to begin with--it's hard to see how "good" any manufacturer can make it.  Two focal points in the same reflector?  Sure, it can always be executed badly, but the spec is the spec, so if it isn't to spec, it's not an H4.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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I've converted most of my bikes to LED.  Half my riding is in the dark avoidnig deer, raccoons and foxes. My VFR and SV650 both have these.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071Z7RHYM/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They work awesome.  I thought there was something seriously wrong with the electrical system on my SV650, even swapped out the harness.  The headlights were dangerously weak, now they work as well as any bike I've ridden.

 

My CBR has Beamtech LEDs and the RSV4 has Hikari LEDs.

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Here's an interesting find. Micro-projectors in bulb-format! This removes having to deal with OEM reflector in non-optimised LED upgrade. Provides their own!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/9003-H4-LED-Mini-Bi-LED-Projector-Lens-Canbus-EMC-Decoder-Error-Free-5000K-Bulb/323773332895?hash=item4b6264fd9f:g:OtEAAOSw3SpcrgyK

 

If their beamshot photo is legit, this may be best upgrade option yet. More lumens output, lower power-consumption AND no glare to oncoming traffic! :) I just ordered set to try out.

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

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Better LED yet, these ones are very close to H4 and have the shields to properly direct light to a good low beam cutoff.  If there are no shields, there is a lot of scatter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/H4-9003-F2-LED-Headlight-72W-12000LM-Cree-Chips-White-6K-Driving-Front-H-L-Bulbs/223491975158?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

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On 2/3/2021 at 9:44 PM, HondaVRider said:

@95RC36 I am guessing that your VFR750 is a 1995 4th gen.  Did you have to do anything special to install the SEALIGHT H4 9003 HB2 or did they just bolt right on?  I have not yet swapped any of my bikes over to LED lights so don't yet have any experience with them.

 

No different than any H4s.

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On 2/4/2021 at 2:40 PM, DannoXYZ said:

Here's an interesting find. Micro-projectors in bulb-format! This removes having to deal with OEM reflector in non-optimised LED upgrade. Provides their own!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/9003-H4-LED-Mini-Bi-LED-Projector-Lens-Canbus-EMC-Decoder-Error-Free-5000K-Bulb/323773332895?hash=item4b6264fd9f:g:OtEAAOSw3SpcrgyK

 

If their beamshot photo is legit, this may be best upgrade option yet. More lumens output, lower power-consumption AND no glare to oncoming traffic! 🙂 I just ordered set to try out.

 

s-l1600.jpg

 

 

Now I've seen everything...

 

Okay, let us know how they work.  I would point out that they probably won't work very well on a 3rd or 4th gen, with the fluted glass lenses.  Might work on a bike that uses the reflector to control the beam pattern, but the earlier models used the glass lenses to do that, so this projector would have to project through the fluting.

 

I once thought about grinding the insides of the lenses flat, then polishing them in the centre so that I could fit a xenon projector, but I didn't go so far as to try it.  (The fact that I know nothing about glass grinding and polishing probably had something to do with that!)

 

Very clever, I just wonder if the micro projector idea actually works or is just a gimmick... 

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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yeah, earlier light designs used both reflector & lens. From what I can figure, the DOT headlight design uses reflector to generate flashlight spot-pattern. Then lens fluting scatters it sideways.  

 

So if we send a wide pattern through lens, it may just make it wider without changing vertical axis?

 

We'll see... Gotta go clean off garage door!

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47 minutes ago, JZH said:

 

Now I've seen everything...

Very clever, I just wonder if the micro projector idea actually works or is just a gimmick... 

 

 

x2 - my sentiments exactly.

 

@DannoXYZ if you buy & try these please share your experience and gratuitous pics with us!

 

I am getting ready to buy parts for my projector retrofit on my 5th Gen, these little projector 'bulbs' would save a lot of time and fuss if they actually perform. 

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57 minutes ago, JZH said:

I once thought about grinding the insides of the lenses flat, then polishing them in the centre so that I could fit a xenon projector, but I didn't go so far as to try it.  (The fact that I know nothing about glass grinding and polishing probably had something to do with that!)

I've actually done this on polycarbonate lenses! But glass is much tougher, although cerium oxide cuts it easily...

 

Another thought is to toss factory lights completely. Use its front surface to make mould. Then vacuum-form polycarbonate lens to cover hole in bodywork.

 

Then mount projector lights behind it. Kinda like 6th-gen lights.

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All good ideas.  I was also thinking about ditching the OEM headlight unit entirely and simply covering the opening in the fairing with a clear acrylic "headlight protector".  A set of OEM-type automotive xenon projectors could then be mounted behind that, but they'd have to be enclosed in a housing and protected from the elements somehow.  What I actually did was move onto a different project!

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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Am I understanding the last bit of this thread correctly?

Are you saying that it is possible to run the projector lights WITHOUT the usual shiny, parabolic reflector ?

That would seem to save quite a bit of weight (my '97's feels like it weighs 15 pounds!).

Brian

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Here's what LED bulbs do inside reflector housing. While there's more overall light, there's also A LOT going above horizontal and into on-coming traffic's eyes. Notice flare going up in centre as well. This will severely annoy anyone directly in front. There's way, way worse examples out there.

MXGS9921.JPG.95d37d681fd93b89b14e5ab549d589d9.JPG

  

On 2/9/2021 at 10:43 AM, Smack said:

Am I understanding the last bit of this thread correctly?

Are you saying that it is possible to run the projector lights WITHOUT the usual shiny, parabolic reflector ?

That would seem to save quite a bit of weight (my '97's feels like it weighs 15 pounds!).

Brian

 

Yes, projector lights are self-contained lights with their own reflector and lens assembly. In old days, I used to roam breaker yards to get OEM halogen projectors from BMWs. Then they evolved to use HID bulbs and now LED. I recommend 3.0" projector lights for better light control. OEM Nissan and Lexus ones are best if you can find them. Rather than thin stamped steel, they are usually heavy-duty cast aluminium assemblies. However, aftermarket ones have improved significantly. I would still disassemble these and paint front lens-holder flat-black to prevent rust and stray reflected light.

 

ProjectorLights.png.41ab7ae158b4239536e9cf5553bd47cb.png

 

Here's an installation on Ninja 250R. Remove factory lights and disassemble to toss reflector assembly. I use heat-gun, baking in toaster-oven works as well to soften glue.

IMG_6481e.thumb.JPG.fab4603c33671fc5f49474fa05edc547.JPG

 

Projector light is mounted on plate to hold them to original headlight casing. I use longer screws to hold seam of clamshell solidly to plate (light inserted from behind). Then install bezel/shroud to clean up looks and block stray spill light.

MauR_assembly.thumb.jpg.023daabc1bc8d2cd0fd2fa460cc50e39.jpg

 

Re-install into housing. Toyota has good butyl-rubber seal to glue headlight halves back together.

MauR_3516.thumb.jpg.3c109690ec74b22799b509ab7149d5a7.jpg

 

Voilà!!! Note sharp horizontal cut-off to prevent glare to on-coming traffic. Yet very bright light on road below. Penetration is very good, easily 80-100m.

MauR_4859b.thumb.jpg.2bb4399d43b7b25679b583496351787e.jpg

 

Figured I'd use original glass VFR headlight as plug to make mould. Then vacuum or pressure-form polycarbonate lens to cover opening in fairing. Projector lights would be independent assembly mounted on bracket behind it.


 

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