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Gen5 - Did my fuel pump just die?


yegvfrguy

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Hello to all you wonderful VFR experts!

 

So.... Went out for a ride this afternoon for about an hour and a half.  Got home, parked and let the bike idle for about 3 mins.... Engine cuts out.  The video I've attached is what it is doing now.  Turns over but won't fire up.  Did my fuel pump just die?

 

Any info that anyone out there can provide would be greatly appreciated!

 

Cheers!

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Don’t jump to conclusions without testing and gathering data. Multiple issues can cause your problem:

 

- bad kill-switch

- mis-adjusted kickstand switch

- some blown fuses

- stuck tipover sensor

- broken neutral-switch or wiring

- bad coil or power-wires to coil

- etc.

 

Don’t do desperate shotgun approach of randomly replacing perfectly-working parts with brand-new perfectly-working parts because nothing will change and bike still won’t start.

 

Pull out manual and multimeter and go through troubleshooting flow-chart with measuring voltages at various points and/or measuring continuity of various interloc switches and sensors.

 

Collecting data as in measured numbers will be fastest and cheapest way to fix this problem. Because numbers from tests will narrow down issue to actual problem areas or components. Numbers will show whether specific part is good or bad.

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On 9/28/2020 at 11:04 AM, yegvfrguy said:

Did my fuel pump just die?

First thing...At Ignition Switch ON. Do you hear the Fuel Pump Prime for approx 3 secs?

 

Because you can crank your engine over that eliminates the Kill Switch and Neutral Switch.

You could do a check of Fuse B 20

amp. This is the EFI and Fuel Pump power Sub Fuse.

 

Do you have the Service Manual? You can download it from the forum. Do you have a multmeter?

 

Get back to us regards hearing or not hearing the Fuel Pump Prime at switch on.

 

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Grum:  I believe you were the kind soul who helped me out about this time last year with a 'clicky' clutch switch....  Thanks again!  Anyhoo, fuse B is good and no, there is no priming sound.  Nothing but crickets when I turn the key....

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On 9/28/2020 at 4:02 PM, yegvfrguy said:

Grum:  I believe you were the kind soul who helped me out about this time last year with a 'clicky' clutch switch....  Thanks again!  Anyhoo, fuse B is good and no, there is no priming sound.  Nothing but crickets when I turn the key....

 

Thanks - Glad you got the clutch switch sorted.

 

OK. You need to also check the two Main Fuses at your Starter Relay especially Main Fuse B 30 amp. This can suffer from heat stress and hi resistance joints and wiring, check this fuse is not blown and the wiring looks good.

 

Noticed with your video the Fi Light is On all the time. Does your Ignition Switch have 4 wires and having a Pink wire? This is a security anti theft wire and sends 9v (via a Zener Diode) to the ECM to enable it. 12v or 0v = No ECM enable, No Fuel Prime and Fi light ON.

 

Failing that you'll need to check that the ECM is getting proper 12v power.

 

Good Luck, keep us posted.

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Hi to all, just thought to share something similar that happened to me a couple of months ago...


While i was riding on the motorway the engine suddenly died. I parked and checked all the fuses.

Everything was fine, but i couldn't hear the Fuel Pump when i turn the ignition on.
My first thought was that the fuel pump died. 

 

I took the bike to my mechanic and he found that the alarm was causing problem... The alarm after 20 years.
So after disconnecting some wires everything went back to normal!

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6 hours ago, nik68 said:

Hi to all, just thought to share something similar that happened to me a couple of months ago...


While i was riding on the motorway the engine suddenly died. I parked and checked all the fuses.

Everything was fine, but i couldn't hear the Fuel Pump when i turn the ignition on.
My first thought was that the fuel pump died. 

 

I took the bike to my mechanic and he found that the alarm was causing problem... The alarm after 20 years.
So after disconnecting some wires everything went back to normal!

Alarm!!!! What alarm? Is there some sort of after market alarm system installed on your bike you are referring to?

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18 hours ago, Grum said:

 

Thanks - Glad you got the clutch switch sorted.

 

OK. You need to also check the two Main Fuses at your Starter Relay especially Main Fuse B 30 amp. This can suffer from heat stress and hi resistance joints and wiring, check this fuse is not blown and the wiring looks good.

 

Noticed with your video the Fi Light is On all the time. Does your Ignition Switch have 4 wires and having a Pink wire? This is a security anti theft wire and sends 9v (via a Zener Diode) to the ECM to enable it. 12v or 0v = No ECM enable, No Fuel Prime and Fi light ON.

 

Failing that you'll need to raise the tank unplug the Fuel Pump Connector and probe it with a voltmeter to verify voltage and ground for the two wires, Note you'll only have the voltage there for approx. 3 secs at switch on. If the voltage is O.K you will have to verify the pump operation by powering it directly from the battery with some test leads.

 

Good Luck, keep us posted.

Okeedokee!  I'll work my way through these various suggestions (a definite learning moment coming up!), see what I come up with and let you know the results.  All stuff I'm unfamiliar with, so I'll have my manual and youtube at the ready.  I'd post a video of me poking around (for the amusement of the members here!), but my pride has declined to be filmed...  Think blind squirrel looking for a nut... lol  

 

I cannot thank you enough for the info.  I'd be looking at a trailer ride to the shop if it weren't for this forum and super awesome knowledge imparters, such as yourself.  Cheers!

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Just need to know that you have a multimeter and you are able to use it for voltage and continuity? Step by step hopefully we will find your issue. Make yourself familiar with the Fuel Cut Relay and the Engine Stop Relay, via your Service Manual.

Cheers.

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1 hour ago, Grum said:

Just need to know that you have a multimeter and you are able to use it for voltage and continuity? Step by step hopefully we will find your issue. Make yourself familiar with the Fuel Cut Relay and the Engine Stop Relay, via your Service Manual.

Cheers.

I will have to purchase a multimeter.  Searching my local retailers atm, actually.  I'll make sure it has the capabilities you've specified (volt/cont)!

 

I'll begin the journey down the rabbit hole tomorrow, and update you as I go...

 

Have a great day on the other side of the world!

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1 hour ago, St. Stephen said:

Do not--I repeat--DO NOT--ask Grum for help if you don't have a multimeter handy! 

 

OK, maaaaybe a tire change, but still.

lol... Duly noted!  I'll be arming myself with one tomorrow...  Then I have to learn how to use it!  I think I like how Grum works... Seems to be having me check all the underlying stuff first instead of just binning the fuel pump and hoping a new one works (which is where my head was at).  Methodical.  Hopefully my aging brain will be able to properly apply his advice! 

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23 hours ago, DannoXYZ said:

Don’t jump to conclusions without testing and gathering data. Multiple issues can cause your problem:

 

- bad kill-switch

- mis-adjusted kickstand switch

- some blown fuses

- stuck tipover sensor

- broken neutral-switch or wiring

- bad coil or power-wires to coil

- etc.

 

Don’t do desperate shotgun approach of randomly replacing perfectly-working parts with brand-new perfectly-working parts because nothing will change and bike still won’t start.

 

Pull out manual and multimeter and go through troubleshooting flow-chart with measuring voltages at various points and/or measuring continuity of various interloc switches and sensors.

 

Collecting data as in measured numbers will be fastest and cheapest way to fix this problem. Because numbers from tests will narrow down issue to actual problem areas or components. Numbers will show whether specific part is good or bad.

Dude, you are absolutely correct.  I'm not an accomplished DIY/diagnostic guy, so my brain works in very simple terms with this kind of stuff, which is why I come here... lol  Fortunately, it would appear that Grum is going to help me out with the technical stuff and attempt to lead me down the golden path.  I'm realizing (logically) from his suggestions how many little things can be a possible cause by just not allowing the fuel pump to engage rather than it being the pump itself.  I'm looking forward to the challenge of tracking it down!

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Yup, test, measure and verify all parts and circuits to determine what’s wrong first. Then fix the problem. Doesn’t require replacing any parts lots of times. Sometimes, it’s just scraping corrosion off terminals or switch contacts.

 

here’s video on how to use multimeter to measure voltage, current and resistance.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, DannoXYZ said:

Yup, test, measure and verify all parts and circuits to determine what’s wrong first. Then fix the problem. Doesn’t require replacing any parts lots of times. Sometimes, it’s just scraping corrosion off terminals or switch contacts.

 

here’s video on how to use multimeter to measure voltage, current and resistance.

 

 

Wow.  Love this community.  Thanks for the leg work.  Gotta buy one first, but I'll check it out when I do!

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7 hours ago, Grum said:

Alarm!!!! What alarm? Is there some sort of after market alarm system installed on your bike you are referring to?

Yes, i bought the bike years ago, with an aftermarket alarm system installed on it. Spyball i think!

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On 9/28/2020 at 11:04 AM, yegvfrguy said:

So.... Went out for a ride this afternoon for about an hour and a half.  Got home, parked and let the bike idle for about 3 mins.... Engine cuts out.  The video I've attached is what it is doing now.  Turns over but won't fire up.  Did my fuel pump just die?

 

Thinking more about your issue and after seeing the video. NO I don't think your Fuel Pump has died.

The Fi Light being ON all the time tells a different story.

 

The ECM has possibly lost its 12v Power OR is not enabled via the Pink Wire I mentioned if you have it on your bike. So we really need to establish if your Ignition Switch is a 3 wire (no pink wire) or a 4 wire (having the pink wire). Could also be a stuffed ECM, but we won't go down that road yet!

 

Got your Multimeter?

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2 hours ago, Grum said:

 

Thinking more about your issue and after seeing the video. NO I don't think your Fuel Pump has died.

The Fi Light being ON all the time tells a different story.

 

The ECM has possibly lost its 12v Power OR is not enabled via the Pink Wire I mentioned if you have it on your bike. So we really need to establish if your Ignition Switch is a 3 wire (no pink wire) or a 4 wire (having the pink wire). Could also be a stuffed ECM, but we won't go down that road yet!

 

Got your Multimeter yet?

Sir, yes sir!  Multimeter present and accounted for, sir!  😉

 

So, pulled apart the front cowl and unless I'm misreading the manual, this is the ignition switch connector (3P natural connector).  It traces back to the ignition switch, so... I guess it's a 3 wire....

 

DSC_0140.JPG

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O.K Thats Great no sneaky Pink anti theft wire. We can now check for Voltages.

As the relays, fuse box and battery are close together on a 5th gen. Lets confirm Voltage at Sub Fuse B 20amp the one in your Fuse Box. Refer to the simplified schematic attached.

Note that when looking at the top of the Fuses you should see two small metal test points left and right of the Fuse amperage.

With your meter set to read DC Volts place the Black meter lead on the Battery Negative terminal and the Red lead on the Fuse Test points for the fuse above.

 

Do you measure 12v on BOTH of the Fuse test points with Ignition Switch to OFF?

 

Fuel_Pump_Schematic.jpg

5thGen_Fuse_Relays.JPG

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1 hour ago, Grum said:

O.K Thats Great no sneaky Pink anti theft wire. We can now check for Voltages.

As the relays, fuse box and battery are close together on a 5th gen. Lets confirm Voltage at Sub Fuse B 20amp the one in your Fuse Box. Refer to the simplified schematic attached.

Note that when looking at the top of the Fuses you should see two small metal test points left and right of the Fuse amperage.

With your meter set to read DC Volts place the Black meter lead on the Battery Negative terminal and the Red lead on the Fuse Test points for the fuse above.

 

Do you measure 12v on BOTH of the Fuse test points with Ignition Switch to OFF?

 

Fuel_Pump_Schematic.jpg

5thGen_Fuse_Relays.JPG

Performed the test as you described (black to neg battery/red to fuse).  Came up with a zero volt reading on both sides of the fuse.  Having said that, my multimeter is all over the place when the leads aren't touching anything (positive numbers, negative numbers) and then they level off at zero when I attach the leads.  Does that seem right?  Are those random readings normal (it's an auto-ranging device)?  It's digital and I didn't drop a lot of coin on it....

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Make sure you get a proper reading by just measuring your battery. Make sure your meter is set to DC voltage. You need to be seeing a steady DC voltage of 12v or there abouts.

Once you get your meter reading properly, go back and measure the voltage at both test points of the fuse mentioned 20a Sub Fuse B.

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27 minutes ago, yegvfrguy said:

Sorry... Forgot to mention they were still zero volts both sides.

O.K so are you following where we are at on the drawing I posted for you?

You need to now go to the MAIN Fuse B 30 amp and measure the Voltage on BOTH of its test points. Do you see 12v on Both Test Points?

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