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Unhappy 1st time VFR Owner - No power to fuel pump


AndyE

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Hello, I've just this minute signed up in the hope that you guys can help me out of a hole!

 

I did the dastardly deed last weekend and bought a 2004 VFR800 vtec unseen from eBay 🤔

 

It was a 2 hour ride home, and al was fine until about 30 mins from home the bike lost all power, and completely stopped.  No warning, no dash lights, just stopped.  Turns out the fuel pump has no power going to it.  I've done what I can interns of tracing the fault, but wiring and mechanics in general are not my strong point.  So, here I am unashamedly asking for help with my very first post!

 

So far I have....

 

Proven a good ground from the pump to the battery neg.

Proven continuity of the brown.

Proven the pump by connecting directly to the battery.

Basic tested relays by connecting 12v and listening for the click.  Also swapped relays around and no diffs.

 

What I have found though, is that at the ESR, I have 12v (10 actually) on the black and pink with ignition off, and 12v on the black with ignition on.  What I dont have, is 12v on the black and white which is what powers the FCR and in turn the pump.

What I'm struggling with is why...I have the wiring diagram, but I didn't listen at school and I cant get my head around it fully.

 

Any help would be massively appreciated!

 

TIA, and ride safe

 

Andy

 

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What is the “ESR” you’re seeing 10V on?

 

Is the battery fully charged?

 

Have checked all fuses?

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1 minute ago, ducnut said:

What is the “ESR” you’re seeing 10V on?

 

Is the battery fully charged?

 

Have checked all fuses?

ESR = Engine Stop Relay and on the Black/Pink wire he should be seeing virtual Battery Voltage, 10v is low.

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Your Bank Angle Sensor provides the Ground to energise the ESR, via the Red/Orange wire. But the 10v you are reading on the Black/Pink wire is low. The 12v you are seeing on the Black wire is correct and this comes via the Engine Kill Switch. So it appears for the ESR not to be energising the Ground BAS side might be an issue.

 

Verify your Battery is good and terminals are tight.

 

Do you have the Service Manual which you can download from this site?

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I’m wondering if the R/R and/or stator took a dump and the bike ran on battery voltage until the battery charge got too low to operate the bike. 

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1 hour ago, ducnut said:

I’m wondering if the R/R and/or stator took a dump and the bike ran on battery voltage until the battery charge got too low to operate the bike. 

That's a good possibility. But at the moment, and assuming his battery might be ok, he should be seeing the ESR energise at switch on. But yes, does he have a properly charged battery at the moment? We will have to wait and hear back from AndyE.

Should be able to get the engine running with a charged battery then verify the charging volts.

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May also check the front sub harness blue ground wire that’s common failure on these bikes. Search blue wire ground issue six GEN or something like that. 
Honda had a recall for this item by the way. If it’s been done there should be a stamp mark on the ID tag on the side of the frame rail.qHonda had a recall for this item by the way. If it’s been done there should be a stamp mark on the ID tag on the side of the frame rail.

Don’t remember if it’s top right or top left corner.

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Good point regards the Blue connector Green ground wire, as this would explain the loss of Instrument Panel lights as well as the ESR dropping out. 

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Hi all, thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the help.

 

So, couple of things to clarify... I didnt loose the instrument lights, what I meant was that there wasn't any fault lights or stop lights when the engine cut.  Everything appears fine, except the pump doesn't prime.  Looks like the blue connector has had a 'workaround' rather than a  recall, there is an additional ground wire at the connector that seems to suggest this has been done according to what I've seen on here and other places.  Will check it if I know what to check!

 

The battery was supposedly new, and testing it direct on the terminals shows 11.7v, although still only 10 at the relay (and any other connections such as lights).  Will put it on charge but I don't think that's the problem as I should still see something on the bl/w wire shouldn't I, or does it require a full 12v to work?

 

I've grounded the r/o wire on the ESR and tried again, but still the same.

 

Green from the BAS shows continuity to the battery neg, i.e. 0 ohm's.

 

I have a service manual downloaded, maybe I need to take another look...Ive read so many things I'm beginning to confuse myself and maybe missed the part that helps!

 

Edit to add, there is continuity of the r/o wire from the BAS to the ESR.

Cheers all,

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

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Hi Andy.

If you have 12v on the Black wire of the ESR Coil (Ignition On)and you have properly Grounded the Red/Orange wire being the other side of the relay coil you MUST hear it energise. You can only have a faulty relay OR and bad relay socket/base connections. Anything like the attached pictures?

Give this a good check and get back to us.

 

 

 

 

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

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Hi Grum,

I do indeed hear and feel the esr click when I switch the ignition on.  I've swapped it out with the headlight relay and same results.  Just in case,  I've actually cycled left all 3 relays twice so that at some point if there was a fault relay, it would be connected to the headlight and couldn't affect either the esr or fcr. 

 

I have the battery on charge at the moment and will take another reading when its charged.  The b/w wire shows around 1v rather than 0, but I was assuming some sort of residual current...and this was normal?!  Told you I didn't listen at school!

 

With that in mind, are you still thinking a bad connection at the esr somewhere?

 

Once again, thanks for the help.

Andy

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Hi Grum, the relay and connectors look OK....

Although looking at that pic, no.2 which is the b/w has a small amount of corrosion...could that be all it is?  Surely not?!

 

 

20200719_114532.jpg

20200719_114543.jpg

20200719_114650.jpg

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Ok from what I read you've never stated that the ESR is energising!

You need to have a very good look at your Main Fuse B 30amp. This is located next to the starter relay. Have a very close look for overheating wires and a heat stressed fuse, check the Fuse spade sockets for any evidence of potential high resistance. You should be seeing virtually the same voltage at the Black Pink wire of the ESR as what you measure at the battery itself.

 

ALSO- Confirm that you are hearing the Relay energise with the Bank Angle Sensor all connected and providing the Ground for the ESR. So listen closely at the ESR and turn on the Ignition DO YOU HEAR IT ENERGISE?

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Apologies, I thought I'd explained that in my first post but reading back, I hadn't.  I have checked the main fuse, and it looked OK, I.e. wasnt blown and tested out at 0 ohms, but didn't take a really close look, so will do that next.

Thanks

Andy

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Trebike0 said:

Do you get 12v momentarily on the supply to the fuel pump , or has this been asked .

No power getting to the Fuel Cut Relay so the switch on prime is not happening. See AndyE's opening post.

Cheers.

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Hi Grum

 

Yes, I can hear and feel the esr click, which I assume means its energised.  It just isn't putting any power out on the b/w connection.

 

Main fuse B looks OK, no sign of heat stress, ie. no nasty brown marks or stiff wires.

 

Trek,  nope, no power out of the ESR on the b/w wire, so no power to the fcr and pump.

 

Cheers

Andy

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OK. Try this make a good shorting link so you can short/link the Black/Pink wire to the Black/White wire at the ESR, make sure the FCR is installed.  Switch on Ignition first then make the link. DO YOUR HEAR THE FUEL PUMP PRIME FOR APPROX 2secs.

 

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1 hour ago, Grum said:

OK. Try this make a good shorting link so you can short/link the Black/Pink wire to the Black/White wire at the ESR, make sure the FCR is installed.  Switch on Ignition first then make the link. DO YOUR HEAR THE FUEL PUMP PRIME FOR APPROX 2secs.

 

Sorry, just to be clear, is this bridge with the esr relay installed or removed?

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Whatever is easiest to bridge the Black/Pink to the Black/White, we are effectively bypassing the relay. In or out makes no difference.

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Ok, done that, no power still....

 

With the ignition on, and no bridge to b/w, I see full voltage at pink/bl

 

With the ignition on and the bridge to bl/w in place, I see only 1v at pink/Black and bl/w.

 

I do see full voltage (11 now after a quick hour or so on charge) on the black wire.

 

Is this heading towards Ducnuts theory?

 

 

 

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OK Transfering the Blk/Pink wire power to the Black/White wire Kills the voltage at the Black/Pink wire Yes?

If that's the case And your not blowing your Main Fuse B then you have a bad joint between the Battery, through Fuse B, through to the 18P Blue connector then to the ESR.

 

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Mate it's after midnight here.

If you are seeing a low voltage on the Black Pink wire at the ESR when ignition is ON. You need to follow the Black/Pink wire down to the Blue 18P connector where the wire then become a Red/White wire. Probe the Red/White wire and see if the voltage has gone higher if so then you've found the bad connection. If not move along the Red/White wire towards the Main Fuse B. Measure the voltage at the single wire joiner see if the voltage is higher there, then move to the fuse itself. Hopefully you'll find a place where the voltage jumps towards battery voltage and the bad connection.

Sorry heading off to bed.

 

Also if you had a short in the R/R it would take out Main Fuse B or be flattening your battery quickly with some kind of partial short, according to my drawing. 

 

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