Vfr800 2016 unwanted drain

[JPR]

Hello one and all .first post on this forum (have been using bikers oracle but thought I would try and tap into your electrickery wisdom also!)

 

i have a 2016 8th gen that I have owned for a year now. When I bought it it had a lithium battery in courtesy of the first owner. At the start of lockdown here in the UK it wouldn’t start after a month of no use. Not unsurprising there really.

 

charged the li battery(with a normal battery charger admittedly, but never for long at all - just enough time to get the battery indicator to show charge on the battery - maybe an hour) Then went for a  decent ride. All fine  there. Week later battery is flat again. Suspected I goosed the battery perhaps so swapped it out for a motobatt battery purchased for the CBR in feb this year. Similar problem of dead battery after seemingly not very long. 
 

have now done the following.

charged the battery and left it off the bike for 4 days. Voltage remained constant at 12.7. Connected to the bike, started bike and disconnected again. Voltage didn’t drop below 10.4 when cranking. After 4 days of repeating this nothing changed. Cranking v didn’t really drop. V when bike is running is always 14.45.

 

Next I connected battery and left it connected. 24 hrs later v was 12.43. Further 24 hrs 12.24, further 24 hrs 12.05 and this time I cranked it and cranking v was 10.05. 
 

I have connected multimeter between negative terminal and earth and get ma readings between 8(when the hiss light on the clocks flashes) and 0.09. Disconnected all fuses one at a time and this intermittent increase in drain stops when pulling clocks fuse. 
 

have had meter connected for last 5 hrs and keep going to look but still not seen a draw of more than 8a. 
 

now I know the battery I am using currently is a smaller capacity battery than the AGM battery that should be on the bike so have ordered the correct motobatt one to at least eliminate the battery (it was on the list anyway as I found the li battery struggled to start the bike during the mid winter when it was frosty out). Have also been to 2 shops who tested the battery and both said it was good (as did my charger itself) but have not done a test like leaving the lights on on the bike to see if they dim after a period of time because of the LED lights.

 

so as far as I can now guess I have one of the following (or maybe more than 1)

a) a duff battery (but seeming unlikely given its age and the tests) - but can eliminate this when the new battery arrives

b) a drain that is intermittent.

c) a duff multi meter when using the 20ma setting.

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts / experience / tests I can do / things to consider. Whether i remove one fuse at a time and leave overnight to at least isolate a circuit, Do I check all Earth points maybe? Reg rectifier possibly (having read one post on here where it was causing an unwanted drain - difference being I have not been able to measure an abnormal drain). Stabbing in the dark a bit as I can’t find a draw that is anything but seemingly normal.

 

generally a bit baffled and electrickery is def not my strong point.

 

for those that do have 8th gen bikes does anyone have an idea how long their bikes have been left and then the bikes still starts without needing a charge? The drain I have been measuring would take ages and ages to flatten a battery.

 

thanks all for any help whatsoever - it is appreciated

 

jon

 

[JPR]

Have just been out (after what, 6 odd hours) and the Hiss light has turned itself off now and I am seeing a draw of 0.08ma which, if constant, would take an utter age to drain the battery.

 

Could it be a dodgy earth somewhere maybe, or reg/ rec? Or at a very base level a dodgy battery still?

[Grum]

13 hours ago, Jor said:

Have just been out (after what, 6 odd hours) and the Hiss light has turned itself off now and I am seeing a draw of 0.08ma which, if constant, would take an utter age to drain the battery.

 

Could it be a dodgy earth somewhere maybe, or reg/ rec? Or at a very base level a dodgy battery still?

The MAX leakage current for an 8gen is only 1.0ma or 0.001amp. You are seeing an excessive 80ma according to your measurement! POST EDIT - NOT SO, I thought it was 0.08 of an AMP not milliamp, sorry.  0.08ma is well within tolerance of 1.0ma.

 

The Unswitched services hanging directly off the battery are.

- Clock/Hazard Fuse 10a

- ABS Fuse 30a

- R/R via the 3P Black connector with the Red and Green wires, through Main Fuse 30amp to the battery

 

To check leakage current (sorry if you already are doing this, but just to be sure). Ignition to OFF, disconnect the Negative Battery lead. Set your multimeter to the lowest DC Current Range, (you may need to move your red meter lead to a different position for amps). Place the Black meter lead on the Battery Negative terminal, place the Red meter lead on the removed Negative Battery lead. You should not see a reading greater than 1.0ma.

 

I know of one incident with an 8gen where a faulty R/R was causing excessive leakage and had a faint buzzing noise, and flattening the battery over time.

 

So if you are seeing excessive leakage disconnect the above services one by one removing the Fuse until the leakage disappears. With the R/R you will have to unplug the 3P Black plug having the Red and Green wires, OR an easier way to possibly isolate the R/R would be to have the two Fuses mentioned removed THEN simply remove Main Fuse 30amp at the Starter Relay if the leakage current drops to normal after that then it looks like an issue with the R/R.

 

Are there any added electrical accessories to your bike?

 

Definetly make sure your meter is reliable especially when measuring such low current readings, get another meter if in doubt.

 

Good Luck, hope this helps.

[JPR]

Thank you Grum. Bit confused - I have the meter set to 20ma and see readings from 8 (highest) to 0.09 and that is in time with hiss light flashing. No hiss light flashing I see 0.09.
 

have tested as far as you suggested  in terms of leakage with ignition off and negative battery terminal to earth bridged with meter. it is the clocks causing this drain but will look into the other things also. Nothing else connected to the bike no.

 

pics of meter and high low readings attached

 

[Grum]

Easy to be confused, however based on your reading you Don't appear to have a current leakage issue. I am sure the stated 1.0ma Max leakage would be with the HISS light NOT flashing as most VFR's built don't have HISS. You are seeing 0.08 of a milliamp, well within the 1.0 milliamp Max tolerance.

 

My apology. I read your previous statement as 0.08 of an AMP not milliamp, so there you go I was the one who was confused. Sorry I confused you.

 

Note - For testing you could go through the Instrument Panel settings and turn the HISS light to OFF. See your Owners Booklet.

 

Sorry if I'm being pedantic but measure leakage current with Black Lead on the Neg Battery Terminal and the Red Lead on the cable removed from the neg of the battery - not just frame.

 

The thing to think of with a 20ma scale on your meter is that the two digits left of the decimal place can range from zero to a maximum of twenty milliamps. So right of the decimal are 10ths, then 100ths of a milliamp.

 

As an example, here's my meter on the same scale measuring 11.83 milliamps.

 

Cheers.

P.S No need to post your pictures upside down just because I'm in the Southern Hemisphere.! 

 

[JPR]

Thanks Grum. Measuring leakage as you describe - negative battery terminal to cable (not frame)

 

just a bit baffled as the readings I take seem normal and yet h battery appears to be draining faster than should be expected

[Grum]

1 minute ago, Jor said:

Thanks Grum. Measuring leakage as you describe - negative battery terminal to cable (not frame)

 

just a bit baffled as the readings I take seem normal and yet h battery appears to be draining faster than should be expected

Think you really need to reassess the situation with the new battery you have on order. I just recently replaced my original Yuasa battery after 6 years, it was requiring additional charging and loosing its ability to crank the engine over. Had the battery tested and its rating of 210cca was down to 99cca.

If your bikes charging voltage is around the 14.5v and your leakage current is in spec. Then most likely you have a battery issue.

[JPR]

Cool, have had 2 places check this battery both of which checked the CCA against spec and one place said 180 and the other 170 against spec of 190 measured within 20 mins of each other. Still monitoring the battery in there but will swap them over over the weekend and see what happens with this brand new battery and have fingers and toes crossed that I have a battery issue because god knows what is happening if not hahahah

 

thank for the help

 

 

[Grum]

7 hours ago, Jor said:

Cool, have had 2 places check this battery both of which checked the CCA against spec and one place said 180 and the other 170 against spec of 190 measured within 20 mins of each other. Still monitoring the battery in there but will swap them over over the weekend and see what happens with this brand new battery and have fingers and toes crossed that I have a battery issue because god knows what is happening if not hahahah

 

thank for the help

 

 

Hope you ordered the equivalent of the Yuasa YTZ14S as opposed to the YTZ12S being the original. Not that it really matters, it's just that they are both the same size but the 14S has greater cranking capacity 230cca.

 

Also it's important to remember an AGM battery does not like sitting quiet for month after month, nor is it good for very short runs. So lengthy regular runs are the best and for extended lack of use you should hook up an Intelligent Charger/Maintainer frequently.

 

I wouldn't be too concerned at what the cranking voltage is, but more so the cranking speed which you become used to, if the battery is obviously showing signs of struggling to crank, then the battery is on its way out. Also AGM batteries don't perform at their best in very cold temperatures.

 

Strange you mentioned the HISS light was OFF after "6 odd hours" the light is supposed to remain flashing for 24hrs after Ignition Off.

 

The electrics on the 8gen are very reliable with all the previous generation gremlins sorted, so I'd be surprised if there is anything sucking the life out of your battery, and, you have confirmed there is no abnormal current drain with Ignition Off.

 

Lets know how you get on with a proper known good battery.

[JPR]

So the plot thickens. 

3pm on the 6th I installed the new battery. Charged it when it arrived then left it for 24hrs. Voltage across terminals 13.0v after the 24hrs sitting. Installed it onto bike, turned ignition on long enough to turn the blinking HISS warning light off and then ignition off. Check voltage across terminals again and showing 12.9.

 

Tested today at 2pm (so 23 hrs later) and voltage is down to 12.62.

 

will repeat this test over the next 48 hrs and let you know what is happening. Could simplify turning ignition on cause this drop? Apologies if that is a daft question.
 

strange thing was that before I changed battery I had 48 hrs of no drop in voltage with the CBR battery (after probably 4 days of dropping voltage). Thought to test it so turned ignition on (not cranking engine) and straight off again. Next 2 days I see further drops in voltage again. 
 

So the plan is to keep measuring voltage every day to see if there is a point when the drop stops but could def use some inspired help going forward as to what / how to test / what to check.  
 

Thanks in advance

 

jon

 

[raYzerman]

Not terribly unusual, as there is some parasitic drain to keep the clock, trip meters and ECU alive with the bike off.  You cannot expect zero drop.  How much is the draw per Honda, I don't know, have not much VFR experience..  but I have similar voltage drops....

Load test the battery and that should tell you lots.  If you charge the battery disconnected from the bike, after an overnight you should have a resting voltage of say 13-ish volts.... after a couple of days you'll find it dropped much less than as if it were hooked up to the bike's parasitic draw.

[JPR]

Is there a way I could maintain battery connection after switching ignition on and off to check for a drain that way? Maybe disconnect battery and use a wire to bridge earth and battery. Ignition on, ignition off, then maintain connection with multimeter whilst disconnecting wire? 
 

might be pointless or a stupid thought but I don’t mind being stupid hahahah

[Grum]

Hi Jon.

I don't see an issue with a battery fully charged that once installed drops to 12.62v, 24hrs later.

You have confirmed you have no excessive leakage with Ignition Off (unless your meter is really screwed!).

I'm sure the voltage will probably settle down to a degree, but you can't just let it sit there week after week without a good ride or a maintenance charge.

 

So if your cranking speed is good and your charging voltage is good, just get out and ride it. Just pay attention every time you start the bike that it's cranking over nicely rather than being overly concerned about what the battery voltage might be while cranking.

  

You at least now have a new, good, full capacity battery that you can evaluate with normal bike use. See how you go. If all your bike systems are working normally then I doubt you have some strange intermittent issue that could cause battery drain and especially while Ignition is Off. Sorry I can't offer any further advice than that.

Cheers.

[Grum]

22 minutes ago, Jor said:

Is there a way I could maintain battery connection after switching ignition on and off to check for a drain that way? Maybe disconnect battery and use a wire to bridge earth and battery. Ignition on, ignition off, then maintain connection with multimeter whilst disconnecting wire? 
 

might be pointless or a stupid thought but I don’t mind being stupid hahahah

Can't wrap my brain around what you are suggesting here!

 

The leakage current test you've done and gotten less than the maximum allowable of 1.0ma confirms there is NO issue with current drain.

There is no need to try any other method because by measuring the Negative lead current detects EVERTHING that flows from the battery.

[JPR]

Sorry if my posts are a bit confused. My previous testing has always involved disconnecting battery and bridging earth to negative.

 

what I noticed prior to battery swap was a good 48 hr period where the voltage did not drop at all on the CBR battery - stable at 12.1. I turned ignition on and off once to get hiss light back flashing. Over the next 48 hrs the voltage dropped again. When I took it off the bike 48hrs after the ignition turn on and off it was down to 11.6.

 

esentially I was wondering if I could have some sort of drain that is triggered after the ignition is switched on so not noticeable by simply measuring drain after having disconnected the battery to bridge earth and negative with meter (without turning the ignition on and off again obviously)

 

might be me clutching at straws a bit but will check voltage over the next 48 hrs and HOPEFULLY (!) I don’t see a continued drop in voltage of 0.3v a day which to

my understanding would not be normal.

 

 

thanks for the continued help Grum - it is appreciated.

[JPR]

Measured the voltage now (21hrs from last check which was 12.62)

 12.39.

[JPR]

Have disconnected Reg Rec at 4pin grey connector now (leaving other 2 connectors alone for now). Voltage at 3 today was 12.38

 

connector itself looks great.

[Grum]

15 hours ago, Jor said:

Have disconnected Reg Rec at 4pin grey connector now (leaving other 2 connectors alone for now). Voltage at 3 today was 12.38

 

connector itself looks great.

If you're trying to isolate the R/R, you should have remove the 3P Black connector with the Red and the Green wires! Otherwise it's still hanging off the Battery!

 

[JPR]

Dang it haha. That will be tomorrow’s job then haha

[JPR]

So. 9am yesterday voltage was 12.21. Disconnected black Reg Rec connector and tested again and voltage was 12.29. 4pm today and voltage is 12.3 so stable. To cross the t’s and dot the i’s can I turn ignition on and off with the RegRec disconnected (not cranking or starting engine obviously) just to check like for like so to speak as had been a good few days now without anything other than measurements.

 

cheers

[Grum]

7 hours ago, Jor said:

So. 9am yesterday voltage was 12.21. Disconnected black Reg Rec connector and tested again and voltage was 12.29. 4pm today and voltage is 12.3 so stable. To cross the t’s and dot the i’s can I turn ignition on and off with the RegRec disconnected (not cranking or starting engine obviously) just to check like for like so to speak as had been a good few days now without anything other than measurements.

 

cheers

Can't see an issue provided you don't start the engine. With the R/R output plug off its as dead as a Dodo without battery connection and incoming AC.

[JPR]

74hrs with RegRec disconnected. 74 hrs with no drain.

[Grum]

9 minutes ago, Jor said:

74hrs with RegRec disconnected. 74 hrs with no drain.

Sounds like you're onto something, perhaps there is an issue with the RR. Strange your leakage current test didn't show this. Suspicious of your meter on amps range, because this should have picked up an issue.

[JPR]

My only thought was whether it was something only triggered by turning the ignition on and off - something I am unable to do with the multimeter between negative and earth wire. 

[JPR]

Yesterday I turned the ignition on and off again and no drop in voltage when measuring today but agree my meter could be broken / pants / not measuring correctly