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After MOSFET R/R, is a VFRness still a good idea?


THRASHEK

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I recently acquired a ‘99 VFR w/ just shy of 20,000 km and a previous owner installed a voltage indicator and RM Stator MOSFET Regulator-Recrifier.  Per the previous owner, voltage has been stable ever since the R/R was put in.  Perhaps I’ve missed it on one of the many R/R posts, but I’m curious if a VFRness is a still a good idea IF a MOSFET R/R has already been installed and there are no other apparent issues?   I believe they are related, but I’m not completely certain.   Maybe the VFRness still a good idea to extend service life of other electrical components?  As I plan to keep the bike for many years, I’d like to be proactive where warranted.  Let me know your thoughts... and wisdom!

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The known best R/R upgrades are the Shindengen FH020AA or SH847

if installed properly to current art, it eliminates any need for the Vfrness.

 

RM stator R/R? IMHO pass on that one. Keep an eye on it.

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If you do an upgrade using Roadster Cycle's harness, the R/R is powered direct from battery and eliminates the need for Vfrness and the stock wiring it's connected to.

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Can I hijack this post to ask someone to explain to me what the R/R and the Harness actually do, and why loads of posts on the forums are about upgrading them? (new 5th gen owner here wanting to know what the buzz is all about)

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 IMHO the factory wiring harness is unable to handle the current load of the charging system due to the small gauge wiring. If you do the Roadstercycle upgrade you basically bypass all the stock wiring for the charging system. The VFRness simply supplements the stock wiring. I have also done the Eastern Beaver headlight wiring kit which takes additional high current load off of the wimpy stock wiring. Haven't had any electrical issues since I've done those two mods. The stator issue is still present, but It's better than the 6th gen. Keep an eye on the voltage with a monitor of your choice, and when it starts to rise above 14.5 you know it's stator time. When that happens is dependent on how you ride, and ambient temperatures. High temp high RPM riding will cook the stator faster. I would also recommend an OEM stator if you can source one. Aftermarket stators I have tried are not as robust. They all die eventually, but OEM last the longest.

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On 5/21/2020 at 8:25 PM, THRASHEK said:

I recently acquired a ‘99 VFR w/ just shy of 20,000 km and a previous owner installed a voltage indicator and RM Stator MOSFET Regulator-Recrifier.  Per the previous owner, voltage has been stable ever since the R/R was put in.  Perhaps I’ve missed it on one of the many R/R posts, but I’m curious if a VFRness is a still a good idea IF a MOSFET R/R has already been installed and there are no other apparent issues?   I believe they are related, but I’m not completely certain.   Maybe the VFRness still a good idea to extend service life of other electrical components?  As I plan to keep the bike for many years, I’d like to be proactive where warranted.  Let me know your thoughts... and wisdom!

I’m not sure what “RM” means. Rick’s Motorsport Electrics? If so, it’s offshore garbage.

 

However, an OEM stator for the 5th Gen VFR is NLA (No Longer Available) from Honda, which means we gotta’ run what we can get. A rewind from Westcountry Windings would be a better option than Rick’s.
 

As for the R/R, MOSFET has become the buzzword continually repeated by so many. A MOSFET R/R is still a shunt-style R/R, just like the original part. But, the circuitry is better than the original piece, so they tend to be more reliable. However, if it’s an offshore piece of garbage, like Rick’s, there’s no way I’d count on it. You want genuine Shindengen brand for a R/R. They’re an OEM supplier to most motorcycle manufacturers, so they’re made to a high standard. Of their offerings, you want an FH020 MOSFET R/R or SH847 Series R/R. Of those two, you really want the SH847, because Series technology is the latest in circuitry advancements, it opens/closes the charging circuit as it’s needed, allows the stator and R/R to operate cooler, and will help prolong the service life of those components. 
 

VFRness is an outdated bit that’s still being touted as a necessary upgrade by those who have something to sell. The harness included in a Roadstercycle R/R Kit is far superior. First, the kit is built around a genuine Shindengen R/R. If one chooses their SH847, there’s none better. Second, the kit gets the charging circuit out of the bike’s main harness. This is very important for a VFR, because there’s power out of the R/R that goes directly into the bike’s main harness, without circuitry protection. This is why, when the R/R fails and the voltage climbs, it melts the main harness, even after the main fuse blows. The bike will still be running, but, its electrics will be going haywire, until everything is completely fried or the bike burnt to the ground. The Roadstercycle Kit’s circuit is stator > R/R > 30A circuit breaker > battery. With this setup, everything is protected by the breaker. Should one ever have a charging issue, one only need look at items ahead of the battery. This setup uses the battery as a power bank, to run the bike. Combine this kit with an SH847 R/R and it and the stator WILL most certainly run cooler, because the charging system only needs to engage when the battery voltage drops from running the bike. When it does, the SH847 will simply close the charging circuit, top up the battery, then, open the circuit, allowing everything to cool. The Roadstercycle Kit is the most reliable charging system upgrade available, at the moment and well worth the investment. 

14 hours ago, MBrane said:

 IMHO the factory wiring harness is unable to handle the current load of the charging system due to the small gauge wiring. If you do the Roadstercycle upgrade you basically bypass all the stock wiring for the charging system. The VFRness simply supplements the stock wiring. I have also done the Eastern Beaver headlight wiring kit which takes additional high current load off of the wimpy stock wiring. Haven't had any electrical issues since I've done those two mods. The stator issue is still present, but It's better than the 6th gen. Keep an eye on the voltage with a monitor of your choice, and when it starts to rise above 14.5 you know it's stator time. When that happens is dependent on how you ride, and ambient temperatures. High temp high RPM riding will cook the stator faster. I would also recommend an OEM stator if you can source one. Aftermarket stators I have tried are not as robust. They all die eventually, but OEM last the longest.

I’m not sure how you arrived at the wire gauge being too small. The unregulated power from the stator is carried by three wires, of adequate gauge, to the R/R. The only issue in that circuit is the connector being neglected, corroding, building extreme heat, and melting. Coming out of the R/R, now-regulated power is split between a couple primary circuits and is further split again, downstream of that, all using adequate gauge wire for load and length.  
 

When voltage rises above 14.5, it’s R/R replacement time; NOT stator time. 
 

“High temp high RPM riding will cook the stator faster.” Really? Care to explain how that happens?
 

 

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Thanks for the information.  Reading between the lines, I believe what I have now should be sufficient without the VFRness and I'll just keep an eye on the voltage.  FYI, the RMStator product isn't offshore and I don't think the company has anything to do with "Rick's".  Also, the R/R that came with my bike is not a legacy shunt device.  Here's a link to the actual product on the Canadian company website.  https://www.rmstator.com/en_ww/products/mosfet-voltage-regulator-rectifier-for-ducati-1998-2012-honda-1986-2015-suzuki-1997-2012-atv-honda-2011-2014-rm30504h  Other posts/forums have spoken highly of the RMStator offering as a comparable to the SH847.  Thanks again guys.

 

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It’s still in your best interest to at least wire up what you have the same way the Roadstercycle Kit is setup, as it’s the most reliable way to bypass the troublesome OEM harness. Get the connector out of there, as well. Plug-and-play isn’t always a good thing. 
 

Nope. Definitely not Rick’s. They be two different companies. 
 

That R/R sure looks offshore and like so many other discount offerings on the net that are repackaged in the seller’s packaging. That’s not comparable to an SH847, in any way other than being for a 12V system, I assure you. The Shindengen SH847 is the latest Series technology, an absolute hoss, and unlike anything else. 
 

The 1st pic is where I mounted my SH847 on my 5th Gen. I have one on my SV and the 2nd pic is comparing it to the stock R/R. The 3rd pic is a diagram how to reliably setup the VFR charging system. 

EDC1334B-0C8F-409A-B99D-F73BA012B72F.jpeg

16ACC918-8A3D-47C9-A283-5924E6B3EE1C.jpeg

300C21B3-5004-4DBF-95E9-70D9BC7E9C5F.jpeg

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On 7/18/2020 at 12:34 AM, MBrane said:

 IMHO the factory wiring harness is unable to handle the current load of the charging system due to the small gauge wiring. If you do the Roadstercycle upgrade you basically bypass all the stock wiring for the charging system. The VFRness simply supplements the stock wiring. I have also done the Eastern Beaver headlight wiring kit which takes additional high current load off of the wimpy stock wiring. Haven't had any electrical issues since I've done those two mods. The stator issue is still present, but It's better than the 6th gen. Keep an eye on the voltage with a monitor of your choice, and when it starts to rise above 14.5 you know it's stator time. When that happens is dependent on how you ride, and ambient temperatures. High temp high RPM riding will cook the stator faster. I would also recommend an OEM stator if you can source one. Aftermarket stators I have tried are not as robust. They all die eventually, but OEM last the longest.

Having owned 2 98 Gen 5s, I’ve experienced all the issues with the problem areas of the bikes. The first was using the kill switch to stop the engine but leaving the ign on. I did that twice which I think caused the stator/rr connector to melt as the connectors overheated as the system attempted to re-charge the dead battery! The stator wiring is around 14-16ga wire and the rr wiring is closer to 12ga. Think that causes a resistance issue!  I’ve never found that the rr completely failed but have since replaced it with a mosfet unit. I’ve doubled up on the ground wire running a 10ga wire from the - terminal to a frame boss near by. 
About 2 yrs ago I started having a problem with the rear caliper locking up. Unlike many, I like the linked system although some of the components are no longer available. Upon disassembly I found the rear caliper in need of cleaning as I found some contamination inside. I’ve been keen on replacing brake fluid yearly. 
As for the suspension, I first replaced the stock shock with a Fox Twin Clicker back when I first got the bike. I’m not sure it really improved the handling to justify the cost of the shock! After buying a second 98 VFR, I sold the first after first installing the stock shock! I’ve always found the VFR to be a stellar handling bike hence it’s being one of the best used sport bike. 
I’m not sure of of the reason for a complete front end conversion especially when one considered the time and cost and final results. Obviously modern USD forks are all the rage especially if one considers the fact that almost the contenders in WSB and MotoGP are using Ohlins components.

In trying to “improve” Honda’s stock setup, I’ve tried GoldValve and their shim stack is basically the same idea Ohlins use. Unfortunately, if you don’t get it right the first time you have to completely disassemble the fork to revalue. A better idea is the DMr cartridge upgrade kit.

          
I still have my second 98 but it gets ridden less and less after acquiring a 2013 Triumph 800 Tiger a couple of years ago.

 

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On 7/20/2020 at 8:55 AM, THRASHEK said:

Thanks for the information.  Reading between the lines, I believe what I have now should be sufficient without the VFRness and I'll just keep an eye on the voltage.  FYI, the RMStator product isn't offshore and I don't think the company has anything to do with "Rick's".  Also, the R/R that came with my bike is not a legacy shunt device.  Here's a link to the actual product on the Canadian company website.  https://www.rmstator.com/en_ww/products/mosfet-voltage-regulator-rectifier-for-ducati-1998-2012-honda-1986-2015-suzuki-1997-2012-atv-honda-2011-2014-rm30504h  Other posts/forums have spoken highly of the RMStator offering as a comparable to the SH847.  Thanks again guys.

 

 

Interesting - I don't ever recall seeing that company mentioned here or elsewhere.  As I don't know anything about it, I don't have an opinion, but if true this would not be the first company to private label Chinese made goods with an overlay of slick marketing.  Power Stop brakes is one example - Chinese made but a very well put together look.  And who knows - maybe they're fine - I've never used them.  And the same with this company - I have no idea where they source their parts or if from China maybe to a high standard.  However, I've been bitten by the "China syndrome" enough times where I thought I was buying quality parts but instead got Chinese garbage (NAPA Auto Parts ranks high on my gripe list) that I've become a "prove it to me" consumer.  I want to know where parts are sourced, manufactured and to what standard.  Markets are highly price sensitive (the masses looking for a low price point vs good value), that outsourcing has become a prime way of doing that.  So I suppose until a box from them shows up with the country of origin stamped on it there's no way of knowing.  I have yet to be successful at contacting any company with that question - it's usually some non-answer answer - "we source parts from various locations at different times through our global supply chain - blah, blah, blah."  To me that translates word for word to "made in China" and I move on.  It is getting tougher as so much has moved there.  There are exceptions though if one wants to look.  It would be great if this is a company is on par with Shindigen and OEM Honda, as alternatives are good for everyone.   Maybe someone who's ordered from them directly knows and can chime in.  Again, I'm not knocking them - just don't know how they do things. As always,  YMMV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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According to those in the know, a R/R with an exposed, resin backside are knockoff garbage. The 2nd pic on RM’s shows their offering to be made like that.
 

A genuine Shindengen R/R has a metal backing plate, which helps in the transfer of heat to the mounting surface. 

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I got a knockoff, which died partway though the 1st ride.  I then got a used FZ-09 R/R of the FH020AA type.  I wired it to the stock harness but included an extra fused 12awg wire to the battery + and another to a frame ground. No problems.

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10 hours ago, dozyproductions said:

What bikes have the SH847 rectifier as an oem piece? ... that we could use on our vfrs. 

2014+ V-Strom 1000 is the only bike I know of. Suzuki part #32800-31J00. 
 

This is how you’ll want install it.

04C73201-9F55-4526-8057-A871130F8A0F.jpeg

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