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4-piston caliper upgrade?


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Hey y'all--

 

I'm not having much luck searching for 4-piston caliper upgrade info.  I'm sure I've seen it somewhere but can't find much here.  Maybe I need to be looking on CBR forums.  I found two threads, one has some details on a Brembo swap, and the other briefly mentions Nissin swaps but no details.  There are links to the adapter brackets.  I'm pasting those links here, but I have questions.  I have a 90 VFR with Daugherty-modified forks, so I don't want to do a fork swap to get a brake upgrade.  I probably should have done that to begin with.  I have a RC36/2 front wheel and new Braking rotors for it.

 

Brembo thread: 

 

Brembo brackets: https://japan.webike.net/products/1113303.html

 

Nissin brackets: https://www.litetek.co/CaliperBracket_Honda_MC22_Nissin_01.html 

 

If this info is already here, please point me at it.  Otherwise, my questions:

 

What is a fair price for used Brembos?   The few used ones I've found so far are maybe half the price of new.  For the difference, I'd probably buy new.  Is this new caliper the right thing?  Are 30 & 34mm the same size as the Ducati pistons?

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BREMBO-FRONT-LEFT-BRAKE-CALIPER-GOLD-SERIES-P30-34-C/401630013735?epid=1827904770&hash=item5d8303a927:g:MJQAAOSwW~Jb7q4e

 

Is there any reason to not use the calipers with 65mm mounting?  They seem more readily available and the brackets exist too.

 

Will the new VFR stainless lines I have fit the Brembo or Nissin swap?

 

Which Nissin calipers fit?

 

Any educated opinions on which is a better caliper or whose swap brackets are better?

 

That's what I can think of for now.

 

Thanks!

kevin

 

 

 

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Most people just update the whole front end, with CBR600F4/i or VTR1000 if sticking with RWU forks, or many other USD forks. 

 

 But if you search for 5th gen delink you will find complete how to info. Should give you plenty of ideas. 

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9 hours ago, CharlieFoxtrot said:

 I have a 90 VFR with Daugherty-modified forks, so I don't want to do a fork swap to get a brake upgrade.  I probably should have done that to begin with.  I have a RC36/2 front wheel and new Braking rotors for it.

 

 

 

 

 

Just thinking out loud - you might be able to sell your DMr units to another owner to recoup some of the cost of swapping forks.  Maybe try that before deciding on something.  My 4th gen would have benefited more from a fork upgrade than my 6th gen did. 

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I'd have to find another plus-sized guy who needs a fork upgrade, they're set up for a 250+ lb rider.  At this point, I have nice forks with a brace, a wheel, and rotors.  I think I'm solidly on the road to just a caliper swap.

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TL; DR?  I'm going to buy brand new Brembos while I still can.  Also you can get them in silver.  Want to keep reading?

 

I found some info on the Brembo calipers: part numbers and complete application lists for the Ducati calipers. 

 

The gold ones are $195 ea, new, from this USA vendor: https://www.oppracing.com/category/1096-front-oe-calipers/   They are listed as discontinued, but several vendors appear to have remaining stock, part numbers 20.5165.58 and 20.5165.68   edit: see newest part numbers about 12 posts down.  You may have a hard time finding these old numbers.

 

I found one crusty-looking used pair with master cylinder and lines on ebay asking $225.  The seller cut the price and they sold for $195 iirc.   I didn't buy it now.

 

If you're in the UK, there are used ones on ebay for 90GBP right now.  If you're in Italy, they're available new on ebay for a bit less than they cost in the US, but shipping and customs make them not a good deal here.

 

Used ones can be found on all the following bikes at your local Italian motorcycle junkyard

Bimota DB2 SR 1994
Bimota Dieci Biposto 1992
Bimota Furano 1992
Bimota SB6 1994
Bimota SB7 750 1994
Bimota Tesi ID 906 1992
Bimota YB9 600 1994
Cagiva Mito 2 1992-1993
Cagiva Mito Euro 2 2004
Cagiva Mito EV 1994-2003
Cagiva Mito EV 6 Marce 1999-2000
Cagiva Planet 1998-2000
Cagiva Raptor 125 2003
Cagiva River 1995-1999
Ducati 748 1995-1998
Ducati 750 S 1997-1998
Ducati 750 S Formula 1997-2000
Ducati 888 1992-1994
Ducati 907 I.E. 1992-1993
Ducati 916 1994-1998
Ducati 916 S 1994-1996
Ducati 916 SP 1994-1996
Ducati Dimante 1996-1998
Ducati Formula 1994-1995
Ducati Ghost 1996-1998
Ducati Legend 1996-1998
Ducati Monster 750 1996-1998
Ducati Monster 750 City 1999
Ducati Monster 750 Dark City 1999
Ducati Monster 900 1993-1999
Ducati Monster 900 City 1999
Ducati Monster 900 Cromo 1998
Ducati Monster 900 Dark City 1999
Ducati Monster 900 Special 1998
Ducati Sport 650 1994-1995
Ducati Strike 1996-1998
Ducati Strike Bifaro 1998-1999
Ducati Strike Monofaro 1998-1999
Ducati Supersport 750 1994-2000
Ducati SuperSport 900 SuperLight 1992-1997
Moto Guzzi 1000 Centauro V10 1997-1999
Moto Guzzi 1000 Daytona 1992-1995
Moto Guzzi California EV 1997-2000
Moto Guzzi California Special 1999-2000
Moto Guzzi Daytona Racing 1996
Moto Guzzi Daytona RS 1997-1998
Moto Guzzi Sport 1994-1996
Moto Guzzi Sport Corsa 1998-1999
Moto Guzzi Sport Iniezione 1996-1999

 

It looks like they came in silver too, and were OE on 2009 Indians.  They're also still available new, for a little more money.

 

I hope this is useful to someone.

 

kevin

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Good info there. Write it in a file & stuff it in the VFRD library downloads section.

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Charlie,

 

 Try some searches that are a little more specific, ie:

 

Stock forks axial measurements on center are 80mm

My brembos radial mounts on center are 108mm

distance from the inside edge of your fork bottom to the rotor center is 6mm.

 

Play with that and see what you come up with. If you can picture a block of aluminum that will cover those dimensions, it'll get you in the ballpark. I did not include the distance of the center of the radial mounts to the center of the disk because your Brembos may be different. The Brembo radial measurement could also be smaller or larger depending on what model you end up with. There are a lot of hangers that have been built for Harley conversions. They have a lot of convention forks in the Harley arena.

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I put a bid on a pair of calipers on ebay, not really expecting to get them, but I did.  So I guess I'm using used calipers.  I hope I don't have to put a bunch of money in them.

 

edit: I'm pretty sure I'm going to put the used calipers back on ebay and buy new ones.

 

Which reminds me of why I resisted doing this swap for so long.  Damn, it's expensive!  I rode a VFR with Brembos years ago and it was awesome, so I'm keeping that in mind.  Here's a parts list, including shipping:

 

I'm editing to update the list as needed.

 

RC36-2 wheel: $175 on VFRD classifieds, perfect condition, unfortunately RC36-2 wheels are black

Powdercoat wheel:  $175 estimated, being done now (getting the original rear done too, another $175 est, but not counting that here)

Rotors:  Braking brand, $318 on ebay, new

Rotor screws:  gotta look this up, $30? at David Silver

 

Caliper mounts:  $110 on Webike  (these look really nicely done)

Front wheel bearings & seals: $25 at allballsracing.com

Brake pads, Braking brand: $68 on ebay

 

Things I still need:

Tire mounting

Master cylinder, looks like it'll be Brembo 10505312 for a 96 Ducati 916, around $165 with reservoir (16mm)

Finally decide what to do about Calipers: $175 on ebay, used, or $400 new.

Pretty sure I'll need slightly longer brake hoses, definitely with a 90-degree bent banjo

 

So this is gonna end up at about $1700...

 

That's why I throw away receipts and don't think about these things.  Also I need to remember that whatever new or late-model bike I "could have bought" for what I've spent on this one, I don't want anyway.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

 

 

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I also adhere to the "never, ever add it all up" philosophy! 

 

Got the checkbook out?  Then check these out:

 

spacer.png

They're £32 for 12 from Titan Classics in the UK, which isn't really that expensive, compared with OEM prices ($40 @ Partzlla) for steel plated disc bolts...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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Those look nice, and £32 is $40 anyway.  I think I already bought the OEM bolts but after a quick look, don't see them in the garage.  I'll see if I ordered them somewhere, and if not, I'll get these.

 

Thanks!

kevin

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https://japan.webike.net/products/22997473.html

 

try these if your fork mount are 80mm.  you will save alot of money on calipers on ebay. calipers are less than a hundred bucks ie  nissin 4 piston mounting stock are 60mm.  they fit the following bikes with different rotor size: (cb400sf 296mm rotors nsr250r 276mm and cb1000sf 310mm rotors).

are you selling your other rotors that did not fit?

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  • 4 months later...

Hello Charlie

 

How did you get on with your Brembo project?

 

I'm also toying with going this route for a front brake upgrade. Just trying to put together a virtual shopping list. So far it looks like this...

 

'Active' caliper support from Webike - the 65 mm one

P4 30/34 calipers with 65 mm mounting centres & pads

Master cylinder (the Brembo 10505312 you mentioned i.e. PS16) & reservoir

New braided brake lines

 

Is that the lot? A straight bolt-on replacement?

According to "750" I don't need to ask whether or not it's worth doing...

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/86525-3rd4th-gen-brembo-upgrade/

 

Any tips & tricks anybody..?

 

Cheers

 

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Anybody that wants to do this with new parts better buy now.  The place I linked to above pretty much only has one side or the other of various 32/34 40mm calipers,  I found another place that shows them available on their site; will update when I find out if they really have them.  $220 ea.  

 

edit: scroll down a bit for the newest part numbers, which are available.

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21 hours ago, CharlieFoxtrot said:

Anybody that wants to do this with new parts better buy now.  The place I linked to above pretty much only has one side or the other of various 32/34 40mm calipers,  I found another place that shows them available on their site; will update when I find out if they really have them.  $220 ea.  

Just ordered (used) calipers & (new) master cylinder (went for the PSC16 though), reservoir etc from a UK site - worth checking out for Brembo brake parts...

 

http://www.ducatipaddy.com/

 

 

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I don't have an order status on my calipers yet.  I just called to check and left a message.  However, the site klugu posted above has a troubling bit of info:

 

Quote

News: Brembo are no longer willing to supply repair kits for most calipers and master cylinders although for the time being parts are still available for 1970s and early 1980 PS12/15 master cylinders and PO5/8 calipers. If your bike is using parts made after 1985 then your only option is to either send the part that needs repair back to Brembo or buy a new caliper/master cylinder complete. 

 

 

Maybe we need to be looking at Nissin parts instead.

 

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OK, my new calipers are on the way, and I have some comforting info.  The part numbers in my previous post have been superseded, but don't worry, you can still get new 30/34 Goldline calipers.  The newest numbers are 20.5165.74 and 20.5165.84, and I paid $441 for the pair at www.bevelheaven.com    Black or silver finishes are also available.

 

Steve, the owner, was very helpful sorting out what I needed to get.  I also ordered a 10.9770.11 master cylinder for a 996, plus a reservoir kit (bracket needs to be tweaked for this MC) and a banjo bolt, all for $228.

 

I did confirm that Brembo isn't offering rebuild kits any more, but Steve says with annual fluid changes (or for folks with longer off-seasons, change before winter and after winter), you'll virtually never need a rebuild.  Yeah, that's Ducati-level maintenance, flushing brake fluid twice a year, but I guess that's what we get when we put Ducati parts on a Honda...

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They're on!  Right now I'm using my original front wheel and rotors.  I have to get the tire swapped onto my RC36-2 wheel with the floating rotors.  

 

The master cylinder reservoir kit comes with an aluminum bracket, which I promptly broke while bending.  I don't think it's a very bendable grade of aluminum.  I used an old aftermarket  horn mounting bracket to mount the reservoir for now.  Will make something nicer.

 

I have ordered new brake hoses with the correct Ducati ends.  I decided on 29" long for the short line, 34" for the long one.

 

Pics!

 

Brembocaliper-vi.jpg

 

Brembomastercyl-vi.jpg

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What bolts are those holding the calipers?  They look a little unusual.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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On 10/12/2020 at 2:00 AM, CharlieFoxtrot said:

Those are Ducati bolts I think. The label was in Italian. 

Would you happen to have the part number or specs for those bolts?

 

I'm gonna need a set when the caliper supports arrive...

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22 hours ago, CharlieFoxtrot said:

My caliper brackets came with bolts.  Though I didn't compare them to the Ducati bolts, they look about right.  Here's the Ducati bolts.

 

Fantastic, thank you CF 😀

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Got my tire swapped to the new wheel today and ordered a set of Galfer lines for a 96 900 Monster, which are 29" and 30".  I had estimated lengths at 29 and 31, but would have to have them custom built.  I reckon this will be fine.  I'll let you know next week.

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Sounds like your project is progessing nicely CF 😀 I'm a bit behind...

 

My caliper brackets did come with bolts & washers (WeBike) and they are sitting with the calipers, pads, MC on the bench. Fork cartridges & rear shock are en-route as we speak...

 

Next job is to order custom braided lines from HEL - they even have a function on the order form to specify the different components/bike used if building a 'pick 'n' mix' system as we are...nice. Tyres need ordering too. BT-016 Pro's if you're wondering - just over 1/2 the price of the Roadtec 01's I would otherwise have put on. Oh, and then I need a shipping container to use as a workshop/storage. Just moved house to a place without a garage & the poor viffer is sitting outside shivering wondering what has happened after living indoors the past 20-odd years...

 

Seems this will really be a winter project...

 

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