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PAIR valve normal appearance ?


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Hey folks,

 

Is this normal gunk in the PAIR valves?  Can this impact smooth running?  6th gen with ~35K on the clock.  Trying to figure out rough running under 4 - 5K RPM.

pairvalves.thumb.jpg.b135264b33d0a583bbbb3da6a5e02d14.jpg

 

TIA,

ACE

 

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Its not the gunk but rather the seals... whether VFR or RVF  its advise to

remove and store all your emissions in a box marked Foo Foo Ra because
you may be required to reinstall it in the future... meanwhile enjoy your

ride because now you saved weight and plug possible troublesome air leaks...

FooFooRa1.JPG

FooFooRa2.JPG

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2 hours ago, carlgustav said:

Hey folks,

 

Is this normal gunk in the PAIR valves?  Can this impact smooth running?  6th gen with ~35K on the clock.  Trying to figure out rough running under 4 - 5K RPM.

pairvalves.thumb.jpg.b135264b33d0a583bbbb3da6a5e02d14.jpg

 

TIA,

ACE

 

For comparison here are my 2008 6th gen PAIR valves after 31,xxx miles - not cleaned, just as they were when opened.  Not sure what makes the difference.  I keep up on maintenance - oil changes 3 to 4 thousand miles using Mobil 1 and an OEM air filter.  Other than that I just run the snot out of it.  For all the problems the PAIR system seems to cause owners, mine has never given me any grief.    :unsure:

 

Now that I think about it a bit more, I had the 6th gen stumbling (sometimes) / rough running (sometimes) at lower rpm / throttle settings until I removed the injectors to have them bench cleaned and sorted the fueling with a map.  After that I don't think I can tell any difference between this and my 4th gen, which was probably the smoothest bike I've ever ridden.  If you send your injectors out you might be very surprised at how poorly and unequally they flow prior to cleaning.  The ECU cannot know that and does not adjust.  These motors are tuned for emissions and run on the edge of being too lean, so poor flow can exacerbate that to the point you get the poor running. Getting that sorted can help quite a bit.   It's actually quite easy on a 6th gen - you need to get the airbox out, and that's easy - the 8 screws around the velocity stacks hold it to the throttle body.  Label the vacuum hoses so you don't lose track and remember that the temp sensor electrical connector is underneath before you try to horse it out.  Then 4 small bolts retain the fuel rail.  Keep track of the velocity stacks and put them back in their original locations.  It's not nearly as difficult as it sounds - just common sense and a few beers worth of work.

image.thumb.png.07e6640caf4b5457d9b354e9fe0fcbaf.png

 

 

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I just removed mine last wknd and installed block off plates and my set (50k+klms) definitely look like yours Carl. 

I had the PAIR disconnected for about 2 wks after the install of WiLD headers and also had about 10mls of water/condensation in the front 😯

 

Wow! those are clean Cogs, must be running sweeeet 

 

But that top right nut is filthy 😆

 

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Remove the lot, block off with blanking plates. 

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15 hours ago, Skids said:

Remove the lot, block off with blanking plates. 

Yes! 

PairValveplaterear-M.jpg

 

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Thx.  So where is the best place to get blocking plates?  Do they have a gasket, or do you put the reeds back in for a seal (mine are crap)?

 

The injectors have never been out, so that's a thought.  The plugs look ok, but they're original iridiums and that center electrode just looks like a freaking pin point to my old eyes.

 

ACE

 

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48 minutes ago, carlgustav said:

Thx.  So where is the best place to get blocking plates?  Do they have a gasket, or do you put the reeds back in for a seal (mine are crap)?

 

The injectors have never been out, so that's a thought.  The plugs look ok, but they're original iridiums and that center electrode just looks like a freaking pin point to my old eyes.

 

ACE

 

Um, dunno, never needed them... :pinocchio:

 

 

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  • 4 months later...

So here's a follow up to my 'rough running' saga, should anyone see this after all this time.  I went and got the block off plates from MD (very nice), and installed.  Did not take care of my rough running under 5K issue, but they look good and got rid of a bunch of crap.  I have now managed to get the bike running smoothly again (yes, I know it's now Sept., too many bikes to play with).  What I did over time:

- removed RapidBike module, returned to stock ECU; no change

- removed performance headers (from SF and gang ...) and re-installed stock; no change

- pulled/inspected plugs, they looked ok, re-installed; no change

- replaced fuel filter; no change

- replaced fuel pressure regulator; no change

- removed PAIR junk, installed MD block off plates; no change
 

Discussed the issue with friends at a local shop, both shop owners are good folks and know what they're doing.  Their recommendation ... replace the plugs, they may look good but looks are deceiving.  I figured why not, it was a relatively cheap test as opposed to trying a different ECU next.  TA DA, new plugs installed, she purrs again.  Why the f*ck I didn't just do this in the first place is beyond me.  First, I figured I should go back to the last place I messed around in ... the new headers.  From there, travel the complicated to simple path, which I have a tendency to do, instead of the more intelligent simple to complicated path :goofy:.

 

Now if I can just get my new Lectron carb on my XR650R idling right, I'll be ecstatic :laugh:.

 

ACE

 

 

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Wow! glad you've got it sorted, in the long run!

Any more details of the plugs you removed? How many miles had they done? Were they the correct type and temperature range? 

What were the ones you fitted? NGK, Denso, Bosch?

Enjoy your smooth running 6gen. Then have a beer or two afterwards, you deserve it.:beer:

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Plugs pulled; IMR9B-9H w/ ~37K miles.  Not a lot of miles for iridium plugs, one reason I didn't initially suspect them.  Replaced with IMR9B-9H :smile:.

I do have the RB bypass module, but just decided at the time to go all the way back to stock, including harness.

 

My friend at the shop told me an interesting (to me anyway) plug story when we were discussing this.  Back in the day, he/others were testing a CBR900 with a progressive 100HP shot nitrous system.  They were using the stock plugs for the bike and having problems after the first run.  So, they ran an experiment.  They made a run with fresh set of stock plugs, all was good.  Then, before the next run, they replaced the plugs with another set of fresh plugs, and ran again.  Again, all was good.  Then they put the plugs that had been run once back in, and tried to run.  This second run failed miserably.  I guess even simple plugs have a little 'magic' in them :biggrin:.

 

ACE

 

Plugs were/are NGKs ...

 

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3 hours ago, carlgustav said:

Plugs pulled; IMR9B-9H w/ ~37K miles.  Not a lot of miles for iridium plugs, one reason I didn't initially suspect them.  Replaced with IMR9B-9H :smile:.

I do have the RB bypass module, but just decided at the time to go all the way back to stock, including harness.

 

My friend at the shop told me an interesting (to me anyway) plug story when we were discussing this.  Back in the day, he/others were testing a CBR900 with a progressive 100HP shot nitrous system.  They were using the stock plugs for the bike and having problems after the first run.  So, they ran an experiment.  They made a run with fresh set of stock plugs, all was good.  Then, before the next run, they replaced the plugs with another set of fresh plugs, and ran again.  Again, all was good.  Then they put the plugs that had been run once back in, and tried to run.  This second run failed miserably.  I guess even simple plugs have a little 'magic' in them :biggrin:.

 

ACE

 

Plugs were/are NGKs ...

 

Totally true, you can check the gap but not everything else, and this is something that's sitting in between some radical temperature and pressure differentials!  I've had plugs that go the distance and some that don't, and all were "best of/most expensive variant of" with lots of consensus that they are the best bet, and I am in no way an engine-flogger.  I also no longer have vehicles where it's relatively easy to pull plugs to check them out, so my new philosophy is ~75% of wear.  I just replaced a set of iridiums in my Nissan Pathfinder when I got the dreaded exhaust code on one bank that almost always leads to new primary cats, new O2 sensors, or both.  I got lucky because I replaced them right away (in the middle of a long road trip) and it was in fact the plug (why some people don't start with plugs for P0402...anyway...).  This was around 80% of the 100K mile life of the plugs, and in this case one was visibly worn on that bank and "probably" the culprit.  But generally...while I don't see much point in replacing plugs right and left, I also don't see a whole lot of upside to letting them be until the 100% mark or "until there are issues" if it's not simple to check them regularly.  I have a lot of higher concerns than squeezing as much cost performance as I can out of spark plug life! 😄

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