Jump to content

Vfr800vtec Non starter investigation after 2 years store on the off street parking.


Jason

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone,

i am new to this site but not new to motor biking world.

Currently working on my vfr and reading some of the thread on this site.i found it very helpful decided to add some images and notes to it too.I am currently trouble shooting my Vfr800vtec 2003 along the way.its currently non starter.

Motorbike history,

2years no use,parked outside.

STAGE 1 General service 

Fuel flashed,oil,oil filter and coolant flushed,spark plugs checked but not changed,new battery installed.

STAGE 2 Trouble shooting.

Turn the the ignition on Pump priming,F1 light is off.Turn the ignition on engine is cranking 

but not firing.Normally it takes maybe up to 30seconds continues starting fires the bike up but  not at this time.

sprayed into the air box some EASY START see if it fires.Yes it did but only for 5 seconds.

Now I’ve decided to investigate the fuel system.

FUEL SYSTEM INVESTIGATION.

Ivent used the car for 2 years and though maybe fuel filter is clogged.

fortunately the fuel filter is located inside the tank.Not the best place to place it but here we are.Doing this I can cHeck the fuel pump for stuck and also change the fuel filter along the way.

Fuel pump removal from the tank.

Please make sure you find USER MANUAL for your bike at hand at it requires you to be very careful when removing the pump and don’t forget to

ORDER new gasket as it doesn’t hold and it will leak.Alternatively you can buy loctite but I wouldn’t recommend it.If you are on budget fix then up to you.

i couldn’t find information on FUEL Filter Service interval but since I’ve left the bike with petrol for for 2 years untouched.Make sense to change it.

Ordered the fuel filter.The most expensive fuel filter in the whole market what a rip off.

82pounds.The dealer in London said it should be changed at every 30,000.He has been my mechanic for over 10years.This is unofficial advice as Honda service manual doesn’t say anything to servicing interval.I suppose they rather prefer you to pay visit to dealer when things go down.Make sense 🙂

Now is the interesting part of the investigation.I cut the filter to see what is inside here it’s the picture.i can feel the roughness inside the filter paper and the metal bits.I am well disappointed as I always use Shell super unleaded and expected clean filter.Anyways.

Fuel pump testing:

The reason I preferred to take the pump out and check it physically because sometimes the pump get stuck and applying 12volt battery charge straight through the connection points on the pump helps.

There  are two connection points for the pump available to test so I’ve run test on it and it’s working good news.

Currently wait for the fuel filter,rubber sealant for the pump and air filter as soon as they arrive 

I’ll carry on working down towards the injectors.

Forgot to mention,I have already checked all the fuse on the bike to make sure they are in good condition.

Before I work my way down towards the fuel injections.

As soon as the parts arrives,I will put the pump back into the tank fill petrol and run the bike.Lets see if it fires this time.If not time to follow the fuel line towards the injectors.

Wish me luck guys.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

image.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Jason,

 

Definitely sounds like a fuel issue if it ran with a spray of easy start.  Once you put the pump and filter back check the flow rate and pressure.  If you don’t have the tools to do this you will need to ensure you have flow and pressure another way. One method would be to prime the system, and very importantly TURN OFF THE IGNITION and then crack the Fuel Pressure Regulator nut to see if fuel is released at pressure. Please ensure if you go down this route you have a fire extinguisher with you and someone to operate it if required whilst you are working on the bike. If you have pressure and flow I would then look at your injectors. Firstly ensure all the electrical connectors are fitted snugly and mice haven’t chewed through any wiring. Get a multimeter to see that you are getting a pulse when you crank the engine. If the electrical side of the injectors is good I suspect the injectors are gummed/clogged up.

 

I am unsure on how well you know the bike and how to get to the FPR and injectors but you will need to remove the air box from under the tank. You can download the workshop manual from the forum for free.

 

Good luck with your fault finding. Keep us informed of what fixes the bike.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for the best wishes and information provided for the further trouble shooting steps.I don’t have special tools.However,I am definitely going to give it a go.I have fire extinguisher at home.Ive already downloaded service manual for vfr800 pre vtec version .I am using this at the moment.Ive also removed the air box as well as the unit while checking the wires on the bike as I was paranoid thought mouse or something could eat the cables.Thanks for that information.On my previous bike this was the case.After going though so much trouble shooting find the cut on the wires.lesson learnt.Back to VFR.

Fuel filter was really dirty and petrol didn’t come out of it until I hit it several times to the wood surface.I can’t wait for the parts to arrive to put it together to test it.Fingers crossed.
 

Best wishes VFR forum 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Hello,I’ve received all the order part today:Fuel filter,fuel pump sealant rubber,

air filter etc.I am in the process of changing the fuel filter  and the put the fuel tank together with new sealant.Ive check the see if the pump is working again.see the attached pictures at the end.

when assembling the fuel pump to the tank,I have read the Honda service book and it stated that I should apply 12nm pressure  to the each bolt nuts and Special sequencing is followed when tightening the bolt.I have filled the tank with little amount of fuel to check for leak Unfortunately it’s leaking petrol from the New sealant rubber.I am really lost.Honda service book states new Sealant rubber should be used which I did use and followed the right protocol.

Has anyone come a cross this issue of leaking tank after fuel filter replacement.

Is ok to use rubber sealant glue on or around the edges of the fuel tank new sealant.Help would be appreciated.

 

 

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

It's likely that you slightly bent the mating surface on the bottom of the tank. Getting that pump assembly out and back in is a big struggle, and the rim can get slightly bent in the process. I've read it a few times on the forum in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Thank you for the reply,

Before taking the fuel pump I have watched the video on you tube plus I was really gentle with it.In addition,I’ve read the service book and apply correct pressure when tightening the nut.

My question is can sealant glue  be used to solve this problem?

Any other suggestion appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
10 hours ago, Jason said:

Hello Thank you for the reply,

Before taking the fuel pump I have watched the video on you tube plus I was really gentle with it.In addition,I’ve read the service book and apply correct pressure when tightening the nut.

My question is can sealant glue  be used to solve this problem?

Any other suggestion appreciated.

Hi Jason.

Once you've got your fuel pump sorted and if your bike still cranks over fine BUT will not start. Try this. Place your Side Stand in the UP position and with the Clutch pulled in, press the starter switch..........Does it start?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello everyone,

Finally manage to stop the petrol leak from the tank and fuel pump is sorted 

Fuel filter replaced and ready to go.

i have filled fresh petrol into the tank connected it to the bike.

Try to turn the bike over.Before I go through regular checks including 

Turned the ignition:Pump is priming,red switch button is in right position,side stand is on up position clutch pulled in 

bike is turning over but not firing.So I sprayed easystart into the air filter unit and turn the bike on,it fired but died again.:( No luck 

Now I am reading on mechanical manual book and  the next stage in the trouble  shooting is INSPECTION OF FUEL CUT OF RELAY.it seems like I am in for a treat as I have to remove the head cone panel to get to it.Wish me luck guys.

I would really appreciate if you guys have any other trouble shooting I should be taking before going into the injectors removal and cleaning.I’ve never removed or cleaned injector before but not looking forward to it:(

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

The video (link below) will walk you through 6th gen front fairing removal.  A friend is helpful as it comes off as it's awkward and you have to hold it up while the wiring to the headlights and temp sensor are disconnected.  Place a towel on the front fender to protect it.

Also,  the trim pieces around the dash are very difficult - they must be pushed in and rotated toward the rear to remove - they feel like they're going to break,  but mine never have. 

 

Before you do that though,  have you positively confirmed that they're is no electrical pulse going to the injectors?  Fairing removal is a lot of work if you're guessing.  If not confirmed an injector test light is cheap and will tell you. 

 

Finally, I  read through this several times and I apologize if I missed it,  but if the injectors have not been removed and professionally bench cleaned,  given how bad you mentioned the fuel filter was it would be good maintenance.  You'd be surprised how poorly mine flowed even though the bike has been in continuous service and well maintained.  Even if it does not cure the no-start, it's a good maintenance practice while you have it apart - and they're very easy to remove once the airbox is out.  Once flow is restored,  the engine will run more smoothly (sometimes a lot) and idle better. 

 

Best of luck with it. 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=otZQid8qLIs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Hi Jason.

If you are hearing the Fuel Pump prime every time you turn the Ignition on then your Fuel Cut Relay is working. The ECM will run the pump again by energizing the relay once it sees either crank or cam pulses (not sure which one) during cranking.

 

 - Can you get your ear against the tank and hear the Fuel Pump run during engine cranking?

-  Just confirming, you definitely have a good, healthy battery?

- Are you sure you don't have any Fi error codes, MIL Led flashing?

 

If you decide to go near your injectors they are a 2 wire device. Make sure with Ignition On you have a good solid 12v measured at the Black/White wire of each injector. You need to establish this if you suspect Injectors aren't firing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello everyone,

id like to thank everyone that contributed towards my posting.

Ive been working on the bike all day and finally  manage to get the bike up and running.After reading around realised as also Gurum stated when fuel pump priming ignition on then Fuel cut relay is working.

 

I left the bike along for an hour or so as I was loosing hope and bit frustrated.

I came bike to the bike again and decided to give it another go.

Extra checks including:

After the bike failing to fire this morning, Ive opened the spark plugs to see the presence of petrol 

Ive inspected  all the wirings around the bike 

Checked  the fuses -No problem found 

checked the petrol pipe for bent-No problem found 

 

My routine steps as follows:

Battery fully charged-Checked it with voltage meter reader 

Turn the ignition on Fuel pump priming

Side stand is in up position 

Clutch pulled in 

After one long 30 second continues cranking it started.

 

In summary,the bike was not running because the old petrol blocked the fuel filter and the fuel pump was not work when i test it from outside before I remove the fuel pump from the tank.Ive also test the pump after removal from inside connection point.This point was inside the tank next to the fuel filter.It started spinning.i have also test the fuel pump from outside connection point and it worked too.I believe 

the bad fuel blocked the fuel filter  and fuel pump stuck too.

if you don’t hear priming when ignition turned on make sure to 

firstly test the fuel pump external connection point then if it doesn’t work,it make sense to take the fuel pump unit out and check it internally too before ordering new pump.

 

I’ve also installed upgrade parts to the bike too.

Two brothers slip on exhaust

High flow air filter 

Power commander 3 with O2 eliminators 

Good friend of mine had the same bike as I have Honda vfr800vtec 

2003.He has professionally Dyno tuned his bike and had 

customised program too.He had slip on exhaust,high flow air filter and 

02 eliminator too.He was well content with the bike smoothness after the dyno tune.I will get the map from him  and give it a good run myself if it’s good will most definitely post it everyone to use it 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Hi Jason.

Glad you got it going. Sounds like the classic case of a flooded engine. There is a start procedure in the Owners Book for that situation. You have to hold the throttle fully open and crank the engine, this turns the injectors OFF and purges the cylinders of excess fuel.

You no longer need to have your Sidestand Up and Clutch in for starting. This was to check/diagnose the Ignition enable function for the ECM.

Good Luck with the bike.

Cheers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Many of us have been there,  frustrated to the max, ready to give up, about to toss the bike on the junk pile -  then one last try and we finally solve it.  Nice to hear that you got it!   

Your efforts were not wasted though - a lot of good maintenance was accomplished that will serve you well for a long time to come.   Well done.   :fing02:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.