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Fritzer

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Tip for Front Cowling/Gauge cover removal without having to remove side cowlings

 

I recently had to replace the headlights in my 5th gen.  After looking through the manual on the subject and visual inspection, it looked like the side cowlings needed to come off to access the headlight lamps in the front cowling.  A hassle for such a minor issue.  

 

After looking at it for awhile, I came up with the following procedure that allowed me to get to the headlamps without side cowling removal. 

 

No doubt many others have come up with this before but others may benefit with this tidbit.

 

Any other helpful tips out there?

Gauge panel removal instructions.pdf

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Unplug wires. Remove part 2, remove bulb and replace.

Helps to have small hands. But much less work.

 

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I have large hands. Not a huge, but not a small person either (6'1"). I reach in, and replace by feel...dont remove anything to get access.  

 

Matt

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I couldn't get my hands in there to get anything out.  It only took about 20 min to get things loose for access.  And it is not just about the headlamps but allowing access for maybe wiring issues, rear of gauges access, etc.

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Man I wish I read this two days ago.

 

I tried to get in without removing everything - the one side would not come out.  So, as is my usual last resort, i read the manual and deconstructed the front end.

 

Turns out there was a reason I couldn't get the bulb out, and the bulb was fine....but.

 

The Socket has gotten a bit melty.

 

I looked online for a part number for this and my noob bike skills are combining with my lack of googlefoo. - Can any one help me figure out what I need to replace this?

It looks like a socket for just about any automotive H2 bulb should work- should it not?

Also - any idea what would cause this?

 

I had the bike for about an hour and found the right headlight was dim in my safety inspection.  So I really don't know the history.  I do note that the manual calls for a 45/45 bulb and it had 60/55s - which I wouldn't think would cause the issue - would it?

 

I cleaned the connections, threw two new bulbs in (although the old ones worked fine after the cleaning), and it is working fine - but I do want to make sure I don't have future issues. 

 

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

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IMG_7065[1].JPG

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60-55 bulbs get too hot for the plastic sockets(parts no longer available new from Honda), but if the bulb prongs fit right any socket will work, as you say. Other sockets could even be made of plastic that’ll stand the heat better, who knows for sure.  You can get away with 60-55 bulbs but are likely to eventually have issues, as Honda planned/designed housings & reflectors around the 45-45 bulbs

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I have another tip regarding chain removal and replacement.  

 

I remove my chain about every 2,500 miles for a clean and lube.  Rethreading the chain back on the counter sprocket can be challenging if it sets back too far in the case.  On my FJR, I had to remove the counter sprocket cover to get the chain back on.  More hassle then needed if you do the following.

 

At removal of chain stage, connect a old worn out chain (get one from your local wrench if you don't have one laying around) with the master link w/o end plate.  Pull your chain through sprocket until the old chain makes the circuit.

 

Disconnect the good chain, clean, oil then replace by

 

Reconnect the good chain to the worn one and pull new chain through.   Reconnect master link and your ready to ride.  

 

Lot nicer than removing CS cover for chain rethread.

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2 hours ago, airwalk said:

60-55 bulbs get too hot for the plastic sockets(parts no longer available new from Honda), but if the bulb prongs fit right any socket will work, as you say. Other sockets could even be made of plastic that’ll stand the heat better, who knows for sure.  You can get away with 60-55 bulbs but are likely to eventually have issues, as Honda planned/designed housings & reflectors around the 45-45 bulbs

Not only is it hard on the stock connector & system as you found out, but my personal opinion about over lighting a vehicle is a no no.  People that over light their vehicles are doing it at the expense of blinding the people coming directly at them at high speed only a few feet away.   Not wise in my book.

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  • 7 months later...
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Fritzer, what bulbs are you using? I've used everything from OEM'S to halogens. I don't think non-halogens are bright enough but they don't last very long.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

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23 minutes ago, interceptor69 said:

Fritzer, what bulbs are you using? I've used everything from OEM'S to halogens. I don't think non-halogens are bright enough but they don't last very long.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
 

I replaced with stock spec bulbs.  They work fine for me.

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Does anybody have a easy and efficient way to compress the calipers to fit an new set of pads?  I got it done the last time but it was kind of a struggle.

 

 

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Are you trying to do it without removing the calipers? Supposedly it can be done, but it's such a pain I just take 'em off. Before removing them from the rotor I just gently rock them against it to compress the pistons.

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4 hours ago, MBrane said:

Are you trying to do it without removing the calipers? Supposedly it can be done, but it's such a pain I just take 'em off. Before removing them from the rotor I just gently rock them against it to compress the pistons.

I can't remember the exact procedure on my front pad replacement effort a while back.  I do recall that I ended up using some small wood shop ratchet clamps to get the pistons compressed.  It worked and I should have taken some pictures for future reference.

 

Any body have a technique that works?

 

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I do what MBrane does, and remove the calipers... then I press the levers/pedal while the old pads are still in and the pistons will extend sufficiently for cleaning without worrying about pistons popping out.... remove pads, clean pistons, put old pads back in, pry them apart with a big screwdriver or other suitable pry tool... until the pistons are retracted....... one caliper at a time.  New pads in should be gapped sufficiently to slip back over the rotors.... if not, a further gentle pry....

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  • 3 weeks later...
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I finally took the plunge last week and replaced all the brake pads on my '98.  It wasn't as difficult as I expected but it was tedious work and very dirty/greasy.  I have a question:  I used a large wrench to leverage the pistons back in and it worked well until I tried to push the center piston on the rear caliper-that one did not want to go in.  I remember reading a recent thread of a fellow who was doing some work on his rear brake system and found a tiny opening in that (?) proportioning valve (not sure if that's what it's called) that tends to clog over time.  I wonder if mine was clogged as well.  I have noticed for years my rear wheel doesn't spin freely when out of gear and on the centerstand.  I also have noticed my rear brake had almost no effect on braking unless the front was squeezed as well.  Ii finally got the piston in and cleaned around them with brake cleaner.  I've gone for 2 long rides since new pads and it's amazing how much stopping power I now get just when pressing the rear brake lever.  I don't think that's just from the new pads so I wonder if that stuck piston was having a negative effect on braking.  Thoughts?

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1 hour ago, interceptor69 said:

I finally took the plunge last week and replaced all the brake pads on my '98.  It wasn't as difficult as I expected but it was tedious work and very dirty/greasy.  I have a question:  I used a large wrench to leverage the pistons back in and it worked well until I tried to push the center piston on the rear caliper-that one did not want to go in.  I remember reading a recent thread of a fellow who was doing some work on his rear brake system and found a tiny opening in that (?) proportioning valve (not sure if that's what it's called) that tends to clog over time.  I wonder if mine was clogged as well.  I have noticed for years my rear wheel doesn't spin freely when out of gear and on the centerstand.  I also have noticed my rear brake had almost no effect on braking unless the front was squeezed as well.  Ii finally got the piston in and cleaned around them with brake cleaner.  I've gone for 2 long rides since new pads and it's amazing how much stopping power I now get just when pressing the rear brake lever.  I don't think that's just from the new pads so I wonder if that stuck piston was having a negative effect on braking.  Thoughts?

there are two reasons for the resistance you felt in the center piston of the rear brake caliper. 

 

one of the two reasons is that your '98 is now 22 years old and I'm betting nobody has ever refurbished the braking system (22 year-old caliper piston seals, 22 year-old caliper piston wiper rings, 22 year-old brake line hoses, 22 year-old master cylinder seals, and, most probably, some really old brake fluid). 

 

let's be honest, some parts of a motorcycle are "consumables", like brake pads.  but so is the brake fluid and the seals inside the brake master cylinders, the seal inside the secondary master cylinder, and all of those VFR800 rubber brake lines too.  if you want to feel the Honda-goodness that Honda had in mind for the brake performance of your 22 year-old VFR800 it's gonna need a full refurbishment at some point.

 

the other reason that the center piston on the rear brake caliper would put up a fight is that on this particular caliper piston there's a lot of mechanical resistance between you (trying to push it in by hand) and the Rear Brake Reservoir (which is where you're trying to make the fluid go with all of your pushing).  there's resistance at the PCV, resistance at the SMC, and there's resistance at the Rear Brake Master Cylinder.  remember that the brake fluid is incompressible, so it's looking for a space with air (that is compressible) to occupy.

 

the best way to push in caliper pistons is to open the corresponding bleeder fitting on the caliper then push in the piston.  if you have somebody handy to help you (one person presses the piston in while the other person carefully/gradually cracks open the bleeder fitting just a tiny bit) it's easy to control the situation and avoid admitting air into the system.  yeah, it's a bit messy and if you're not careful you could admit air into the caliper, but it's really the easiest way to do it.  and you should probably bleed the brake system every-so-often anyway, right? 

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Greg, thanks for the detailed response.  That explains the difficulty in compressing that one piston.  True everything in the braking system is 22 years old except for the fluid and the pads.  I wish I had the expertise to install braided lines but that's way beyond my abilities and don't want to pay someone more than what the bike is worth to do that.  How difficult is it to replace all those worn out parts in the calipers?  I believe the fluid has been flushed 2x since it's existence.  It's probably time for another flush.  Is flushing this system way more involved than in a typical set-up?  I've never flushed a system but have watched it done on a "normal" motorcycle set-up w/o linked brakes and it's a 2 person job unless one has a vacuum bleeder from what I've seen.  I have to say changing to the EBC HH pads made a big difference as well.  I've always used the OEM pads.  

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Also would taking the reservoir cap off release the pressure when trying to depress that middle piston?

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53 minutes ago, interceptor69 said:

Also would taking the reservoir cap off release the pressure when trying to depress that middle piston?

not necessay.  while the brake fluid (hydraulic fluid) is absolutely incompressible, air is very compressible and the volume of it under the reservoir cap is way more than needed in this case. 

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2 hours ago, interceptor69 said:

Is flushing this system way more involved than in a typical set-up?  I've never flushed a system but have watched it done on a "normal" motorcycle set-up w/o linked brakes and it's a 2 person job unless one has a vacuum bleeder from what I've seen.

I've done the full braided stainless steel brake line conversion plus caliper refurbishment plus full system bleed on a 5th Gen VFR800 twice now, once bike with Spiegler lines and one with Galfer lines.  And I've also done a full system bleed on a standard (unmodified) VFR800.  And for good measure I've always done the bike's hydraulic clutch system at the same time.

 

The best 5th Gen VFR800 linked brake system bleeding results I've had (quickest, less messy, less frustrating) has been when it was done as a 2-person team plus a vacuum bleeder (I use an el-cheapo MityVac purchased at Harbor Freight).  The whole process is so much easier when you have somebody to squeeze-and-hold the various master cylinders (the front brake master cylinder lever, the rear brake master cylinder lever, the clutch master cylinder lever, and even having my helper hand-pump the Secondary Master Cylinder which is located on the backside of the bike's front left caliper).  But even with the precision/efficiency that this method gives me I've always ended up having to go around all the bleeders twice to get good results.

 

Just last month (May of 2020) I helped another member of this forum who lives here in Denver do a full braided stainless steel line conversion (Galfer lines) and complete refurbishment of the system (all new caliper seals and wiper rings, brake pads, and fluid) on his 2000 5th Gen VFR800.  He brought the bike to my home's garage and we did the work over a Saturday and Sunday.  I think he would tell you that except for all of the disassembly and reassembly (these two things account for the majority of the effort required) the actual mechanical difficulty just isn't that high.

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I would love to have a garage to try something like that.  But I don't and whatever I do it needs to get done in a day if possible.  And I don't know any handy mechanic types here in Nashville.  I can only imagine the improvement w/ steel lines and rebuilt calipers-I'm sure it's a night and day difference in stopping power and possibly feel.  My old pads (put on by my local Honda dealer) were just about kaput.  Especially the L front-the R front pads weren't nearly as worn as the L and the rear pads were even less worn but of course they didn't work very well so that may be why they look so thick compared to the fronts.

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