71Rob Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Hi all, new to the forum, just trying to get some different opinions on a problem that happened this morning. got on my vfr this morning to ride to work, started her up selected 1st gear and went to pull away and she cut out, it was still dark so i thought i may have caught the kill switch by accident, no i didn't, i cycled the ignition off and back on and nothing would light up, no dash, headlights, horn, indicators, taillights nothing. so i went to the garage took off some of my gear and grabbed some tools, i removed the seat cowl , seat and battery cover. i put my multimeter across the battery and it read 17.6 volts, thought to myself that's never right. After that i checked all of the fuses and all were fine, by now I'm a bit more confused so i checked them again, yep still fine, at the time of checking it was dark so i had to use the torch on my phone to see through them. i went back inside until it was light outside and then came out to check the earth (ground) points they were fine too all tight as a duck arse and nothing broken, after that i disconnected the battery and checked again this time it read 12.6 volts, and no i didn't misread it the first time the meter is backlit. the thing is I'm not sure what to do next or what to check . Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated, i need to try and get this sorted pretty quickly as at the moment its my only transport. Thanks in advance guys. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer fink Posted September 16, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 16, 2019 Goosed battery? No way it should be reading 17.2v. Isn’t possible have you tried starting it since? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Thumbs Posted September 16, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 16, 2019 The only time mine wouldn’t start I took the key out, turned it through 180* put it back and away she goes Ive had it happen maybe 6-7 times As for the meter reading, total mystery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Rob Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, fink said: Goosed battery? No way it should be reading 17.2v. Isn’t possible have you tried starting it since? I've tried but everything is stone cold dead no lights nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Rob Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Thumbs said: The only time mine wouldn’t start I took the key out, turned it through 180* put it back and away she goes Ive had it happen maybe 6-7 times As for the meter reading, total mystery i even tried the new key, nothing lights up no fuel pump, no lights indicators, horn nada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Thumbs Posted September 16, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 16, 2019 2 hours ago, 71Rob said: started her up selected 1st gear and went to pull away and she cut out, The only thing I can think of would be the clutch kill switch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Rob Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, Thumbs said: The only thing I can think of would be the clutch kill switch surely that wouldn't knock out the whole dash and everything else though would it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted September 16, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 16, 2019 Park your bike next to a car and hook up the leads to the car's battery. What happens when you turn the ignition key? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted September 16, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 16, 2019 Have you checked both of the the fuses at the starter solenoid? Looks like under the seat, right side. I agree that 17.6V is impossible to get from the battery; there's a chemical limit to how many volts you can generate from a given cell and cell count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Rob Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 57 minutes ago, Terry said: Have you checked both of the the fuses at the starter solenoid? Looks like under the seat, right side. I agree that 17.6V is impossible to get from the battery; there's a chemical limit to how many volts you can generate from a given cell and cell count. I've already checked all the fuses several times and the ground (earth) connections too , voltage wise i know what i saw the first time and then the second i checked, just can't figure out what would knock out the whole electrical system like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Rob Posted September 16, 2019 Author Share Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Dutchy said: Park your bike next to a car and hook up the leads to the car's battery. What happens when you turn the ignition key? i have no jump leads dude, never needed them in the past, i guess i need them now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted September 16, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 16, 2019 Do you have any non standard accessories wired to your bike? Think you should methodically follow power from battery using the top part of this drawing. Would definitely try another battery. Does your battery volts die as you turn on the ignition? Get your battery load tested if you have any doubts. The 8gen is very reliable in the electrical department. The two Main fuses 20 and 30amp are not in the fuse boxes, they are at the Starter Relay hidden under a black plastic cover you'll need to lift off, are you sure you have confirmed them Both to be OK? Here's a simple voltage chek, locate your Clock/Haz 10amp Fuse (R/H Fuse Box), probe it with your voltmeter if you have 12v then the Main Fuse 30amp is OK. Now turn Ignition to ON and measure 12v at the Tail/Meter/Turn 10amp Fuse (L/H Fuse Box) NO 12v = Faulty Ignition Switch or wiring. Lets know how you go. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Mohawk Posted September 16, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 16, 2019 You need to check the main fuse, it’s the only thing that would kill all electrical power. If it’s good then various things will work that are nothing to do with the engine. Test like this. Check main fuse, use your multimeter on Ohm setting, if OK. Turn on key then try horn, headlights, indicators. If none of them work you have a major electrical failure, because they will work regardless of engine start or control systems. Your bike has Hondas HISS security system fitted which links key to ECU but it only controls the ignition system, so if electrical connection is made with the key, you will gets lights etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4corsa Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 ...while you're at it, also test the main relay!Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted September 16, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 16, 2019 39 minutes ago, 4corsa said: ...while you're at it, also test the main relay! Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Hi 4corsa, main relay! Are you referring to the engine stop relay? Relays, all 6 of them are interchangeable, handy for fault finding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4corsa Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Yes, the engine stop relay (if that's what its called). I was told by the guy I'm riding in WV (behind his white 2015) that not much works if that relay goes south.Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted September 17, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, 4corsa said: Yes, the engine stop relay (if that's what its called). I was told by the guy I'm riding in WV (behind his white 2015) that not much works if that relay goes south. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Certainly agree with you that the Engine Stop Relay will kill all your EFI stuff, But, according to the OP. " i cycled the ignition off and back on and nothing would light up, no dash, headlights, horn, indicators, taillights nothing." The Engine Stop Relay won't effect these services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4corsa Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Good point!Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted September 17, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2019 7 hours ago, 71Rob said: The only thing I can think of would be the clutch kill switch. surely that wouldn't knock out the whole dash and everything else though would it ? Clutch Switch is only used for the in gear, side stand up, clutch pulled in start logic, and the ECM uses clutch position info for Take Off Assist (the 250 rpm increase as you let the clutch out in gear). Clutch switch has no effect on major electrics. Also Kill Switch won't effect, lights,instrument panel, horn etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted September 17, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2019 10 hours ago, Thumbs said: The only time mine wouldn’t start I took the key out, turned it through 180* put it back and away she goes Ive had it happen maybe 6-7 times As for the meter reading, total mystery Hey Thumbs. That makes no sense at all, UNLESS!.........Do you have the HISS system on your bike? If so, do you have any other key tag/transponder devices on your key ring? This can interfere with the transponder key antenna signal and inhibit your start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Rob Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 quick update, i charged my battery yesterday as it was borderline needing a charge anyway, i used my optimate 4 to charge it so it didn't take long to top it up, before i took it off the only thing on the dash to work was the hiss light. since re connecting the battery at 13.3 volts not even the hiss light will blink now' so now i have a few more things to test today while i' i can,t get to work due to this problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted September 17, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2019 49 minutes ago, 71Rob said: quick update, i charged my battery yesterday as it was borderline needing a charge anyway, i used my optimate 4 to charge it so it didn't take long to top it up, before i took it off the only thing on the dash to work was the hiss light. since re connecting the battery at 13.3 volts not even the hiss light will blink now' so now i have a few more things to test today while i' i can,t get to work due to this problem If at least your HISS light was flashing that means your Main 30amp Fuse is OK. To have all your other items Not working either points to a faulty Ignition Switch or its wiring OR a very suspect battery. Unloaded battery terminal voltage is not a good indication of its capacity, it's ability to supply a load. Properly load test the battery OR replace it, it's now 5 years old. For Info - The 8gen has a very sophisticated R/R charging system, extremely reliable and provides a very constant charge voltage of 14.5v Check this charge voltage once your bike is up and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Rob Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Grum said: Do you have any non standard accessories wired to your bike? Think you should methodically follow power from battery using the top part of this drawing. Would definitely try another battery. Does your battery volts die as you turn on the ignition? Get your battery load tested if you have any doubts. The 8gen is very reliable in the electrical department. The two Main fuses 20 and 30amp are not in the fuse boxes, they are at the Starter Relay hidden under a black plastic cover you'll need to lift off, are you sure you have confirmed them Both to be OK? Here's a simple voltage chek, locate your Clock/Haz 10amp Fuse (R/H Fuse Box), probe it with your voltmeter if you have 12v then the Main Fuse 30amp is OK. Now turn Ignition to ON and measure 12v at the Tail/Meter/Turn 10amp Fuse (L/H Fuse Box) NO 12v = Faulty Ignition Switch or wiring. Lets know how you go. Good Luck. Thankyou for the diagrams, the battery on my vfr is the original one now approaching between 5 and 6 years of age the night before this happened it was quite cold and i know this can have an effect on older batteries, so i have ordered another battery just incase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Rob Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Grum said: If at least your HISS light was flashing that means your Main 30amp Fuse is OK. To have all your other items Not working either points to a faulty Ignition Switch or its wiring OR a very suspect battery. Unloaded battery terminal voltage is not a 100% indication to its capacity, it's ability to supply a load. Properly load test the battery OR replace it, it's now 5 years old. I'm hoping its a very suspect battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted September 17, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 minute ago, 71Rob said: I'm hoping its a very suspect battery Keep us posted on how you go PLEASE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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