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VFR to RC45 "ish" replica budget build


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Project is on hold at the moment. I decided to do the tack welding myself so waiting on finding a deal on a welder. Just makes more sense considering I can make some higher quality brackets and such later.

 

I have a cbr900 rearend coming soon! I bit the bullet and am going to give it a go.

98-99 Cbr900rr:

Swingarm

linkage

chain adjusters

rear axle

wheel

cushdrive w/ rubbers and used 520 sprocket

rear caliper/bracket/disc

 

All the parts cost me about $300. I think that's a relatively good deal. 

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While I'm waiting to complete the exhaust and swingarm conversion I was trying to research some other parts I would like to upgrade.

 

I have successfully fit the vfr750 front wheel to the gsxr??? forks (25mm axle) and I'm running the stock 296mm discs. Is there an upgrade that'll fit? I think early CBR900 were the same size but the 98-99 CBR900rr are 310mm but not sure the bolt pattern or offset is right. Not worried about going larger as I can space the radial calipers out a bit.

 

Is there a somewhat direct swap shock upgrade that almost everyone agrees on? I'm still not clear what will work on a 4th gen.

 

 

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The RC36-II front wheel uses 296mm discs with a 58mm ID, 17mm offset.  It's kind of an old pattern, so not much to choose from.  Other Hondas with 58mm ID discs (and which are not 296mm OD) include the RC30 (310x58x17), NR750 (same), CB1000F (same), RC45 (310x58x21.5) and CBR1100XX (same).  That's pretty much it.

 

I once bought a NOS Braking Blackbird wave disc on closeout from Dennis Kirk or someplace like that, hoping to find another one one day and have the option to fit bigger discs on my OEM VFR front wheel.  Searched for years and never found another one--at any price!

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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If you want to replicate the RC45 direct race feel between your right wrist and the contact patch then scrap the silly cushdrive... Both the RC30 and RC45 are direct drives...

 

 

 

RC45SteelSprocket43Teeth2.JPG

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15 hours ago, JZH said:

The RC36-II front wheel uses 296mm discs with a 58mm ID, 17mm offset.  It's kind of an old pattern, so not much to choose from.  Other Hondas with 58mm ID discs (and which are not 296mm OD) include the RC30 (310x58x17), NR750 (same), CB1000F (same), RC45 (310x58x21.5) and CBR1100XX (same).  That's pretty much it.

 

I once bought a NOS Braking Blackbird wave disc on closeout from Dennis Kirk or someplace like that, hoping to find another one one day and have the option to fit bigger discs on my OEM VFR front wheel.  Searched for years and never found another one--at any price!

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

Thanks, that's very helpful. I'm not a fan of the wave rotors personally, so for now I'll run the vfr rotors and see if some aftermarket rc30 or vfr units pop up.

 

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10 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:

If you want to replicate the RC45 direct race feel between your right wrist and the contact patch then scrap the silly cushdrive... Both the RC30 and RC45 are direct drives...

 

 

 

RC45SteelSprocket43Teeth2.JPG

I'm waiting on CBR rear end parts and just received the cush drive. I would love to ditch it and do a direct drive on it, which would be much lighter. I'll have to look up what's involved or if it's even possible (for me).

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Got some parts today. Swingarm, rear axle, adjusters, and linkage. Wheel should be here this afternoon as well. I cleaned the swingarm to inspect it of any damage or cracks. Looks fairly good for it's age except that it has a white haze in some areas. I assume this is clear coat and not bare aluminum. Didn't think the were clear coated. The VFR frame I believe isn't clear coated, unless I'm wrong. Anyway didn't show up in the photos. Now I'm going to have to strip it. Trying the old oven cleaner to see if it'll eat it so I can then go over it with scotch brite. I may have to get some industrial stripper though. Cheap parts-more work-my luck.

 

Update:

Yup, easy off does the trick... about 15 min the test area turned black. washed it off and hit it with the scotch brite and nice bare aluminum. Just sprayed the whole thing and waiting to clean her up.

 

Haven't taken the rear of the bike off yet. When I do I'll take some measurements and pics of key parts side by side. Have a shock coming that I don't think anyone has used as well as it's linkage so hoping it is a direct bolt on swap but that's rarely the case.

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First 2 pics before second coat of easy off.  Last 3 pics after the third coat. Washed one side with soap and water with kitchen scouring pad other side just dried. Needs another pass when it's totally dry. The top support is pesky as you can see in pic 4. It's more porus and the clear coat has sunk in deep. Tomorrow.

 

IMG_5966.jpeg

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IMG_5970.jpeg

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I'm pretty sure that is clear anodizing as opposed to clear coat, that's why it's so tough to get thru down to raw alum.  It tends to get a hazy white when exposed to the harsh elements after some years.  I was actually able to to bring back a mildly stained 86 VFR frame with a headlight polish ball and some Mequire's fine cut polish.

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1 hour ago, Captain 80s said:

I'm pretty sure that is clear anodizing as opposed to clear coat, that's why it's so tough to get thru down to raw alum.

I agree... the sure sign you hit raw aluminum is black on your polishing cloth...

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Left the third coat on too long so it'll take a little extra elbow grease to get the blackened areas pretty again. There's at least 3-4 different alloys of aluminum and some get eaten quick while others hardly even react. Done for today, my garage is a mess, again. have to tidy up.

IMG_5986.jpeg

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While cleaning up the swingarm I noticed there is no collar inside the pivot tube. It has the bearings and dust seals on both sides but no collar inside! Looked for the part but it's discontinued and ebay comes up with nothing. I decided to roll the dice on 97 collar... different part# but hoping it's the right length. 97 uses the same axle, bearings, etc. so I guess there's a chance. If it's not a perfect fit, I just hope it's a bit longer. At least I can shorten it to work.

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So I made my pivot nut socket and removed the swingarm, linkage and shock.

IMG_6003.jpeg

The shock bumper fell apart but don't care because I may have a direct bolt in replacement shock that I don't think anyone has used that I know of. I have no idea about the rating on the spring so we'll see how it all works.

IMG_6011.jpeg

Anyone want to guess make/model/year shock I'm using?

IMG_6012.jpeg

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I decided to go ahead and take about a 1/4 inch or around 6-7mm off the right side frame pivot. Turns out this is more than enough, I didn't see the need to take off 12mm. I used a sawzaw and lopt it off.

IMG_6018.jpeg

 

I didn't feel the need to machine it flush and clean because you don't really see it and it doesn't contact anything anyway.

IMG_6019.jpeg

 

First glance everything lines up. I'm using the cbr900 plates and dogbone (same length as vfr).

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The plates are obviously different and I measured the full droop before and after.

 

With the CBR linkage I'm about 1.5" longer than the vfr swingarm (I measured from center axle to point on subframe). This may mean nothing once the bike is down on the ground. Only issue is the spring looks like it's barely contacting the the swingarm pivot tube.

IMG_6024.thumb.jpeg.ee88813efa1a312f583a58363d9d5b38.jpeg

 

VFR linkage plates

IMG_6030.thumb.jpeg.d2bdc93a15d8d82839370b600673cb91.jpeg

 

CBR linkage plates

IMG_6025.thumb.jpeg.55093ff2110f1c0ec216aefb3dcc8fd5.jpeg

 

VFR linkage plates

IMG_6028.thumb.jpeg.1571763b7bb9bed6836259fa820572b9.jpeg

 

CBR linkage plates

IMG_6023.jpeg

 

VFR linkage plates

IMG_6029.thumb.jpeg.617b37898f56c03866081e3043f44350.jpeg

 

As you can see there's quite a difference. So this figure is only useful for this bike but here is the "droop" measurements so far: (I do have a upper shock mount shim I haven't used yet)

 

SSSA: ~22.25"

CSA w/ CBR plates: ~23.75"

CSA w/ VFR plates: ~21.00"

 

I do have a 0.25" upper shock mount shim I haven't used yet which will get me probably to ~21.50-21.625"

Sorry I've continuously edited this since posting, I'll stop.

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My appologies for editing my previous post...I was in a rush last night to make some progress. Hopefully it makes more sense now.

 

So, until I have everything I need to bolt it all together I've been chasing that droop height of 22.25 or a little higher. Well I think I got something, well sorta.

 

If I use the dogbone and link plates from the donor shock I'm in the 23" ballpark. However, the linkage uses M12 bolts except for the lower shock mount which is M10 like the vfr. So I'll have to put some new sleeves in the swingarm mount-link plate and the frame mount-dogbone. I have some thin brass tube for a temporary fix to get the slop out but this may work.

 

IMG_6031.thumb.jpeg.cb566009a7174def1927e50af4f29874.jpeg

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Other things on the to do list:

 

Figure out what to do with the swingarm pivot adjusting spacer. It is way too long and sticks outside the frame by an inch. I can only cut off maybe half of that.

 

Does anyone know if the Third Gen adjuster is shorter and has the same thread and will accept the bolt?

If so, does anyone have one to sell?

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Post a picture of it.  I used to have a few different ones from when I was fitting an RC30 swing arm to my RC36-I.  ISTR that many Hondas used similar adjusters and similar 20mm pivot bolts, so there may be some options.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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24 minutes ago, JZH said:

Post a picture of it.  I used to have a few different ones from when I was fitting an RC30 swing arm to my RC36-I.  ISTR that many Hondas used similar adjusters and similar 20mm pivot bolts, so there may be some options.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

I found what appears to be a shorter one that I ordered on ebay that should get here next week but in case it doesn't work, here's a pic. Thanks!

IMG_6033.thumb.jpeg.94ff2d15b561ac23707f8a37760b26d7.jpeg

 

This is the one I ordered. Says it's from a 94 VFR but looks shorter and maybe a Third gen?

IMG_6034.thumb.jpeg.fdbf0e0e2ac38587a2109232c546f1b6.jpeg

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I realise this isn't especially helpful (!), but here are some pics of the adjusters I was playing with in 2016:

 

835474208_2016-07-2911_27_37x.thumb.jpg.474051f772a782b36565c38bbb25ebff.jpg

 

427857416_2016-07-2911_27_51x.thumb.jpg.7f40594973554bbae835d7f05171155d.jpg

 

The problem is, I don't know which bikes these adjusters actually came from, nor which one I used on my bike...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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On 9/7/2020 at 10:12 AM, JZH said:

I realise this isn't especially helpful (!), but here are some pics of the adjusters I was playing with in 2016:

 

The problem is, I don't know which bikes these adjusters actually came from, nor which one I used on my bike...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

Well I bet one of those would be perfect, hope the one I got from ebay is close. Funny thing is it's advertised as a 4th gen and it's obviously not so I'm just guessing it's a 3rd gen at this point. The stock unit is 66mm total. (25mm of collar/41mm threading)

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Here is the adjuster I just received. 39mm total (9mm of collar/30mm threading)

IMG_6045.thumb.jpeg.634059bf4b6b498d4f02636a6772b290.jpeg

 

Looks like this will work out, just hope it's got enough thread length.

 

Air quality and weird orange glow aren't ideal but at least it's not 100+ degrees outside, thanks wild fires 😕 This is noon!

IMG_6040.thumb.jpeg.e3636467df7a2eb6ffceccdc5b111a80.jpeg

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Turns out I ran out of thread. It was worth a try. Need about 10-12mm more of thread. Even the second one in JZH's pic is still about 5mm short in total length. Also, I would like to keep as much thread as possible for overall strength...

 

So I cut mine down. New spacer length 48mm total, 41mm thread, 7mm collar.

IMG_6051.thumb.jpeg.2d5f9a56994040941692db65b7224bd7.jpegIMG_6052.thumb.jpeg.337b12f04ae77b6cc38109742a141dbd.jpeg

 

Also got my new tire mounted and balanced. Michelin Power RS 180/60! It looks like it may be almost an inch taller @ 25.5" and the slightly used 180/55 @ 24.625! I was expecting .5 inch difference. It looks beefy and appears to be almost a .25 wider. Profile is definitely more round. Somehow I lost my brake side spacer for the rear axle, just my luck. I'll make one instead of ordering one.

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Figured out a work around since I couldn't machine the hardened steel linkage bushings. Bored some bronze 3/8" bearing sleeves to accept the M10 bolts and drilled out the suzuki plates to 12.5.-12.75ish mm and press fit the sleeves in and cut the excess length. Shimmed the gaps between the plates and suzuki dogbone since the suzuki dogbone is a few mm skinnier on either side. All in all productive. We'll see if the bronze holds up longterm.

So only issue is lining up the chain. I have a JT 520 front sprocket and it sat inboard too much so I flipped it and it looks close. Maybe needs a 1-2mm shim behind it but I'll have to do some more measuring (too many fat tire amber ales to be accurate at this point). I'm also not crazy about a 1-1.5mm gap between the cush drive and wheel. A gentlemen that was nice enough to reply to my post on Fireblades.org said a slight gap is normal. Easy fix, if I decide to do it, but I'll have to compensate by shimming the whole wheel over that amount to the chain side. Have plenty of room. Oh the details.

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Heard everyone likes photos so here you go...

IMG_6075.thumb.jpeg.ab114872773686444c186fff5eeb47b4.jpegIMG_6066.thumb.jpeg.d75c6ac752ac90e4fa28cb63a31fb953.jpegIMG_6069.thumb.jpeg.70896dca2d3e71a0c9843c2951efbc9a.jpegIMG_6070.thumb.jpeg.fc56ed80be48087f4d7a703f6492fc56.jpeg

 

At least its off the stand!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok maybe "budget build" is kinda relative. However, I bought myself a mig welder and will tackle the new exhaust version 2 to fit the cbr swingarm. I figured having someone else do it might look nicer but the money spent is in my mind wasted. The welder I can use on many other things which I'm excited about. Practicing on scrap with flux core and getting the hang of it. Will be getting gas soon and do some prettier stuff soon. Ordering some more tubing so hopefully knock out this exhaust mock up within the next couple weeks.

 

Side note: Machined a sleeve for the frame/dogbone link to run the suzuki linkage. So that's pretty slop free for now. Put the swingarm pivot spacer in and it ended up pushing the swingarm over 2-3 mm to the brake side. I could mess with the chain side collar but the sprockets now line up pretty well... haven't determined front to back wheel alignment but I'll wait and try to find a shop who can do chassis and suspension stuff accurately. Shouldn't be off by much anyway.

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Just brainstorming, but does anyone have a experience with high temp clear coat for metal? I would like to protect the exhaust after it's done but want to keep the raw metal finish. Thought I would scotch brite & clean system up, run it for awhile to burn it in, then remove & clean and spray it and bake to cure.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-Automotive-260771-11-Ounce-Degrees/dp/B006ZLQ0JI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1IDO4TR2WNAAT&dchild=1&keywords=high+temp+clear+coat&qid=1601847643&sprefix=high+temp+c%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-1

 

or

 

https://www.amazon.com/VHT-SP115-FlameProof-Coating-Satin/dp/B000CPJLGW/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1IDO4TR2WNAAT&dchild=1&keywords=high+temp+clear+coat&qid=1601847741&sprefix=high+temp+c%2Caps%2C206&sr=8-3

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