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Anti seize on plug threads?


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I'm planning on replacing the plugs on my '99 this weekend and am wondering what the general consensus regarding anti seize is.

I've got a set of NGK iridium plugs. I've read many opinions on line advising both to put a dab on, and not to. Wondering what the opinion amongst the VFR crowd is.

 

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To fall back to my standard of ignoring manufacturer recommendations... I use it with the following guidelines:

 

1) Stay away from copper anti-seize on your aluminum heads. Use the silver stuff. Don't use the copper with any aluminum parts.

2) Keep the anti-seize away from the business end of the plug.

3) It doesn't take much. Seriously, a little dab'll do ya.

 

All the plug manufacturers say not to... why? Because using it incorrectly is worse than not using it. Unless NGK is planning to send someone out to help me remove a stuck plug, they can keep their advice to themselves. 

 

Edit: So, to answer the OP's question... the opinion of the VFR crowd on this issue is the same as many other issues... we disagree!

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Spark Plugs are installed dry because

 

1)Anti-seize whether silver or copper works as a lubricant so torque
values are increased higher than necessary...

 

2)Anti-seize whether silver or copper works as a insulator so the
metal to metal contact between plug and head is altered the way it
sheds heat and sets correct operating temp...

 

You'll find this job is easier if you first heat up the engine to
operating temp and then break torque... heat expands the grip on the
threads...

 

Maintenance malpractice is why spark plugs threads are stressed namely
someone incorrectly uses too much installation torque... either they
confuse inch pounds with foot pounds or they have the strength of a
Diesel mechanic and just work with too much force...

 

SparkPlugHeatRange1.jpg

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Always use a dab of anti-seize on all sparkplugs on all my vehicles, car, truck, bike, heck even the lawnmower.

But honestly, as long as you aren't putting the sparkplugs in while the engine is hot you'll probably be fine.

 

The Dodge Cummins is the only one that doesn't get anti-seize on the plugs.

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1 hour ago, squirrelman said:

steel threads in alloy head need some lube imo.

 

NGK Tech bulletin points out the fact that plugs are not bare steel rather they are Zinc or Nickel plated to prevent seizing... so no lube is needed...

 

SparkPlugMemo1.jpg

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28 minutes ago, BusyLittleShop said:

 

NGK Tech bulletin points out the fact that plugs are not bare steel rather they are Zinc or Nickel plated to prevent seizing... so no lube is needed...

 

SparkPlugMemo1.jpg

THANK YOU !

 

i suspected i was incorrect when i disagreed with YOU, and it's not the first time you taught me something useful.

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1 hour ago, HughJebolzak said:

Ok...so it's settled then. Use some but don't use any.

Good.

 

Yep... I saw this coming...

 

You can find literally hundreds of discussions on this subject on the internet and I have yet to see a consensus. The realistic conclusion is: dry or lubed... neither one is likely to created a huge problem if you don't over-torque them and don't glop massive quantities of goo on your threads.

 

I have had to remove a handful of stuck spark plugs in my life. None of them were installed by me, or had any sign of anti-seize on the threads. Admittedly, using this as justification for always using it is just as valid as my "Polar Bear Proof Sunglasses": I've never been attacked by a polar bear while wearing them, so...

 

Also, sorry BLS, I don't really buy the "insulator" argument. If anything (dubious) a grease heavily loaded with metal would have the opposite effect...

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46 minutes ago, squirrelman said:

THANK YOU !

 

i suspected i was incorrect when i disagreed with YOU, and it's not the first time you taught me something useful.

You're welcome...

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1 hour ago, Marvelicious said:

Also, sorry BLS, I don't really buy the "insulator" argument. If anything (dubious) a grease heavily loaded with metal would have the opposite effect...

If you wish to believe it has the opposite effect and thus conducts you still have altered the rate the plug
sheds heat and sets correct operating temp... dry plugs work in the correct heat rating and flow path

prescribe by the design engineers...

SparkPlugHeatRange1.jpg

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8 minutes ago, BusyLittleShop said:

If you wish to believe it has the opposite effect and thus conducts you still have altered the way the plug
sheds heat and sets correct operating temp... only a dry plug transfer heat the way the engineers designed it...

SparkPlugHeatRange1.jpg

I suppose I should have been more clear. My (dubious) comment was to the fact that I seriously doubt it has a measurable effect of any sort

 

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15 minutes ago, Marvelicious said:

I suppose I should have been more clear. My (dubious) comment was to the fact that I seriously doubt it has a measurable effect of any sort

 

Exactamundo!

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My 1982 VF manual states that one should put some moly or copaslip on the threads.  Reckon technology has moved on.

 

 

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One could argue that Honda makes entire motorcycles and engines (it is the Honda Motor Co....), but NGK only makes spark plugs.  Which one is more likely into the proper use and care of spark plugs?

 

I tend to follow manufacturer recommendations, and the manufacturer recommendations I follow most closely are those of the OEM suppliers.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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9 hours ago, JZH said:

One could argue that Honda makes entire motorcycles and engines (it is the Honda Motor Co....), but NGK only makes spark plugs.  Which one is more likely into the proper use and care of spark plugs?

 

I tend to follow manufacturer recommendations, and the manufacturer recommendations I follow most closely are those of the OEM suppliers.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

One could say ngk specializes in spark plugs and would be the experts where as Honda just dabbles in their use. Wouldn't ngk know better than Honda?

The oem instructions would be for specific brand or brands of plugs, you may be using something they didn't write their spec for.

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Fwiw, Honda's service manuals for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th gen VFRs do not call for any lubricant for spark plug threads. 

 

Honda specify the torque setting, the gap, and one or two choices of NGK or Denso plugs. If they thought it necessary to lubricate spark plugs the manual would so indicate.

 

Fwiw, aero-engine manufacturer Lycoming does call for anti-seize to be applied, and they specify a copper-based compound:

 Lycoming Service Instruction No. 1042AG

 

 

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Most likely Honda doesn't spec any anti-seize for the simple reason they don't want people globbing the stuff on there

and screwing stuff up and blaming Honda, because "It says it's okay in the Service Manual".

 

It's called CYA.

 

Believe it or not, I owned a 1971 Triumph Bonneville. It came with an owner's manual, not a service manual, an owner's

manual. Included in that owner's manual was how to pull the cylinders, hone the bores, and decarbon the head. You don't

see that anymore, and it mostly boils down to CYA...and dealer profits of course. 🙂

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3 hours ago, Lorne said:

Fwiw, Honda's service manuals for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th gen VFRs do not call for any lubricant for spark plug threads. 

 

Honda specify the torque setting, the gap, and one or two choices of NGK or Denso plugs. If they thought it necessary to lubricate spark plugs the manual would so indicate.

 

Fwiw, aero-engine manufacturer Lycoming does call for anti-seize to be applied, and they specify a copper-based compound:

 Lycoming Service Instruction No. 1042AG

 

 

So in accordance to all the VFR manuals install your plugs dry... got it recorded in my plug notes... thanks...

 

I agree... Honda would not hesitate to call for lub plug threads but not when the OEM suppliers warn against the practice...

 

The Lycoming Service Instruction was issued back in 1961... I'm surprised it wasn't 1957 the first year of the IO540...

 

My world of aviation is so different than my world of motorcycles... aviation goes by a long established standard to maintenance whereas the motorcycle world operates under no standard... its no wonder owners complain about finding a clear consensus to their maintenance questions... 

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7 hours ago, squirrelman said:

i'll continue my practice to put a drop of motor oil on my plug threDS and adjust tightening torque accordingly.

That might work if you re-calibrate your elbow to click a little quicker than with dry plugs...

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No need to torque plugs. NGK advises to hand tighten, plus 1/8th turn. The crush sealing washer is designed to absorb this method three times, i.e. you can take the plug out twice & reinstall it before you should use a new crush washer.

 

Lube is up to you, I’ve used comma copper slip on all my vehicles since I were a nipper, YMMV.

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