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vfrvCO

Regulator/Rectifier Fried

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My 2000 died yesterday and left me stranded so got towed home and found this.  This is the Rick's unit part #10-126H about 8-9 years ago I installed to avoid this very problem.  Can I assume the RR failed?  Is that the typical lifespan of the aftermarket unit? I thought to reinstall the OEM unit which was working fine and see what happens.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  BTW way the lower connector is real hard to get apart.  Don't want to force and break it - what's the trick?  Thanks.

VFR_RegRect_2.jpg

VFR_RegRect_1.jpg

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This is why I am not proactive. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

My OEM is still good after almost 20 years and 54K miles.

 

Even on the 750F's, I waited until they died before replacing with cheap aftermarket. My 750 is running strong with a $20.00 R/R.

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Had same issue with my 2000, I replaced RR to avoid an issue and it fried connector like yours, I just put the OEM back in and had it fully tested and all is perfect now! Go figure. 

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11 hours ago, vfrvCO said:

 BTW way the lower connector is real hard to get apart.  Don't want to force and break it - what's the trick?  Thanks.

Whats the trick?

image.png.89de20155d64acc4ddb0c2185bf72030.png

 

The phase that technology marches on is still true... 

There is still a high fall out of the OEM R/R but that doesnt mean 100% will eat it... but I'm not one to wait untill I need a tow truck... 

It is well known that the connector R/R to stator is the numero uno fail point and best fix is to solder the wires and heat shrink it all together. 

Really --- @vfrvCO..... you already know the R/R is junk, suggest that you dont buy another Ricks..... 

Also you may as well do a full charging system test.... "The Drill"     -- verify that the battery and stator is good... 

Current art on the R/R is to replace with a MOSFET  or the newer series design by Shindengen.... source is.... www.roadstercycle.com

(Part numbers = FH020AA or SH847AA) 

It is wired direct to the battery and deletes any use of the weak OEM harness for charging.... 

 

For grins one more time... a photo of the upgrade to FH020AA

20170506_234252-M.jpg

 

 

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Looks to me like the primary failure is just as Mello suggests, the connector. If you get some water in there you will start to see corrosion, the corrosion gets in between the connectors and increases the electrical resistance, at which point you start to generate excess heat which ultimately melts the plastic in the connector and possibly the wire insulation. I assume once the bare conductors touch you potentially cause damage to either the RR or alternator or both. 

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42 minutes ago, mello dude said:

Whats the trick?

image.png.89de20155d64acc4ddb0c2185bf72030.png

 

The phase that technology marches on is still true... 

There is still a high fall out of the OEM R/R but that doesnt mean 100% will eat it... but I'm not one to wait untill I need a tow truck... 

It is well known that the connector R/R to stator is the numero uno fail point and best fix is to solder the wires and heat shrink it all together. 

Really --- @vfrvCO..... you already know the R/R is junk, suggest that you dont buy another Ricks..... 

Also you may as well do a full charging system test.... "The Drill"     -- verify that the battery and stator is good... 

Current art on the R/R is to replace with a MOSFET  or the newer series design by Shindengen.... source is.... www.roadstercycle.com

(Part numbers = FH020AA or SH847AA) 

It is wired direct to the battery and deletes any use of the weak OEM harness for charging.... 

 

For grins one more time... a photo of the upgrade to FH020AA

20170506_234252-M.jpg

 

 

Absolutely agreed on the MOSFET R/R... again. It's a better R/R, and you eliminate the connector entirely.

 

While you're working on stuff, install a voltmeter. Digital lcd voltmeters are so small and cheap at this point that there is really no good reason to not have one. Probably would have warned you of your developing problem before you were stranded... Yeah, I know, "Thanks Captain Hindsight..."

2 minutes ago, Terry said:

Looks to me like the primary failure is just as Mello suggests, the connector. If you get some water in there you will start to see corrosion, the corrosion gets in between the connectors and increases the electrical resistance, at which point you start to generate excess heat which ultimately melts the plastic in the connector and possibly the wire insulation. I assume once the bare conductors touch you potentially cause damage to either the RR or alternator or both. 

You don't even need any water beyond that in the atmosphere. 

Also, all that heat you mention is also happening in the windings of your stator at the same time, so it potentially self destructs as a bonus. Your charging system is all interdependent... Battery, stator, R/R and the interconnecting connecting wires (and connectors): any one in bad shape is hard on the others.

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I couldn't agree more on the voltmeter. It was this that alerted me to the degradation of the 3-pin alternator connector when I noticed my charging voltage was dropping over time, from memory it dipped to 13.3V. The wires around the connector were also feeling pretty warm at that stage. At that point I cut out the connector and  soldered in new wires plus heat shrink. After that I got a pretty steady 14.2V at normal running rpm. 

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I do have a small led voltmeter on the bike and I did notice no "green" just before the bike died.  Prior to that all was fine so it happened so fast I would've been stranded anyway, right?

I get what some have said about MOSFET but this is what it says on Rick's website " Hot Shot Honda Rectifier-Regulator: Designed with Mosfet technology; a cooler running rectifier-regulator. *Rick's design eliminates the use of the OE black wire. "  Doesn't that fit the bill?  And I recall some consistent endorsements of the Rick's unit here which I then got from Wire MY Bike.

Amy thought's?

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10 hours ago, vfrvCO said:

I do have a small led voltmeter on the bike and I did notice no "green" just before the bike died.  Prior to that all was fine so it happened so fast I would've been stranded anyway, right?

 

Apparently you have one of those voltmeters with the red/yellow/green idiot lights. (Not digital?) You just learned how useful that is.........

 

And your wiring mess in your photo, just didn't happened suddenly, it was a degradation over time. ------ So how often in the last say, 5 years have you inspected your system and connectors? Also, when in the last few years have you done the basic check with a multimeter at the battery, engine at revs? -- I'm sure, never. You were riding with a time bomb, and you ended up needing a tow truck.....

 

The truth sucks doesn't it? 😱

 

_--------_

As far as Rick's goes, reread my first post.

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Thoughts?

Well... In no particular order: 1) None of them are lifetime guaranteed. 2) Motorcycle electrics are notoriously marginal. 3) I have a doubt that (even with the same part number) the stator you bought from Rick's 10 years ago was Mosfet. 4) Mello Dude's drill is worth your time to be sure of the rest of the system.

 

As for replacement, forget Rick's...

http://www.roadstercycle.com sells a MOSFET R/R made by Shindengen - these are OEM parts on a number of Japanese bikes. He just puts them together with connectors and the appropriate leads to fit your VFR. I know his website isn't flashy, but what he saves on web design, he makes up for by having legitimate top-quality parts.

 

The voltmeter solution I adopted... so far I'm extremely happy:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HO50AJE/ - Accurate within a tenth of a volt by my readings, easy to see, easy to install.

 

My bike was on a ticking clock to having a similar breakdown when I bought it. It isn't cheap to do it right, but it's worth the peace of mind. 

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On 7/20/2019 at 2:07 AM, Marvelicious said:

Thoughts?

Well... In no particular order: 1) None of them are lifetime guaranteed. 2) Motorcycle electrics are notoriously marginal. 3) I have a doubt that (even with the same part number) the stator you bought from Rick's 10 years ago was Mosfet. 4) Mello Dude's drill is worth your time to be sure of the rest of the system.

 

As for replacement, forget Rick's...

http://www.roadstercycle.com sells a MOSFET R/R made by Shindengen - these are OEM parts on a number of Japanese bikes. He just puts them together with connectors and the appropriate leads to fit your VFR. I know his website isn't flashy, but what he saves on web design, he makes up for by having legitimate top-quality parts.

 

The voltmeter solution I adopted... so far I'm extremely happy:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HO50AJE/ - Accurate within a tenth of a volt by my readings, easy to see, easy to install.

 

My bike was on a ticking clock to having a similar breakdown when I bought it. It isn't cheap to do it right, but it's worth the peace of mind. 

Hi. hey, I just bought that voltmeter you recommended. Can you show / tell me how you mounted it? Electricity ain't my forte. 

 

Thanks,

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3 hours ago, JimMoore said:

Hi. hey, I just bought that voltmeter you recommended. Can you show / tell me how you mounted it? Electricity ain't my forte. 

 

Thanks,

There's a thread called -- show us your voltmeter install pics. --- I have been searching for it, but cant find it. 

On yours, it should be an ez install, but guessing you will have to decide on where you want it. Potentially you will need to drill a 1 1/8 inch hole in the body some place for a mount.... 

Wiring is ez... 

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45 minutes ago, mello dude said:

There's a thread called -- show us your voltmeter install pics. --- I have been searching for it, but cant find it. 

On yours, it should be an ez install, but guessing you will have to decide on where you want it. Potentially you will need to drill a 1 1/8 inch hole in the body some place for a mount.... 

Wiring is ez... 

Thanks. I'll search around. Expand on the "wiring is EZ" comment if you don't mind. Pretend you're talking to a third-grader. A dumb one.

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5 hours ago, JimMoore said:

Thanks. I'll search around. Expand on the "wiring is EZ" comment if you don't mind. Pretend you're talking to a third-grader. A dumb one.

Ok, so this is my current method... others will lobby for adding a relay in the circuit, but I think thats overkill... there's 4 or 5 ways to do it..

 

Ideas..... 

- Look at the back of your meter, it probably ID's with lead is a positive (POS) and which is a negative (NEG)?

- For a mounting area, most guys with your style of meter will put it on the black plastic cover that goes over the instuments - left side, theres lots of room... 

I did this one for marriedman.... 

image.png.e9521e65e1f0f69a2de6aa133176608f.png-  You will probly need a trip to Autozone... 

- I like to - wire direct to battery with a 1 amp fuse inline on thje POS side. see what the part store has.. There's several choices of simple fuse holders that go inline. 

- Also for the POS side, install a toggle switch, there has to be 50 choices at AZ --- you can mount on the black cover or I just have mine mounted under the seat. 

- So... POS side goes ----- meter/connector/wire/switch in line/more wire/fuse holder with fuse/ wire to battery with ring terminal.

  >>>>>>>>>>>- Can you do minor crimping and heat shrink or at least tape? 

- NEG side, you can  take the lead and just bolt it to ground or run the lead to the battery. Nothing complicated. 

- So NEG side..... meter/Connector/lead to ground or battery via ring terminal. 

- Buy some 14 or 16 red wire and conncetors that will plug in to the back of the meter, then also a few ring terminals, to hook up to the battery. 

- The Wires can run down the left side of the 5th gen harness, makes it ez, its already there... 

- A few zip ties to keep it neat is very handy, they are cheap... 

- Also will need black... 

 

The idea of the setup is so you check battery status before you power the bike. So it goes.. switch on, battery good? Yes? Power and start bike. 

 Then of course, shutdown is opposite. 

 

>>> Does that help? or need more?  😎

 

 

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My version... I tied positive into a keyed positive wire (If I remember right I used the headlight power) instead of using a switch. I personally prefer that to Mello's method - no extra switch required, just a meter down where only I see it that kicks on with the key. For the ground, I just put a ring terminal on a nearby screw. No extra fuse since it's protected by the headlight fuse.

 

Sorry, I'm not really up for a full-fledged tutorial. I always wind up jumping over things that seem obvious to me and confusing people even more.

IMG_20190725_205200.thumb.jpg.5ef7a3057c81a2eb27c11bc2e406187c.jpg

 

IMG_20190725_205206.thumb.jpg.0ed8fe5f7cb50dc309d2f623f6d1df73.jpg

 

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Marvelicious..... agree yours is a good way to go too... I 'm still at I like the meter on its own remote circuit so I know the battery is good before I do anything and power the bike.

Cheers

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I've heard varying reports that the above volt meter doesn't update the information displayed very often, leading to false readings.  Does it rise and fall with the rpm?

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12 hours ago, mello dude said:

There's a thread called -- show us your voltmeter install pics. --- I have been searching for it, but cant find it. 

 

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30 minutes ago, GebruikerNotLID said:

 

A big thanks!

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7 hours ago, SlickWeevil said:

I've heard varying reports that the above volt meter doesn't update the information displayed very often, leading to false readings.  Does it rise and fall with the rpm?

It updates as fast as my "garage quality" multimeter (my good one stays in the house). Pretty much as fast as I can read it... I don't really know about durability and longevity yet, but accuracy is not an issue.

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OK, I've repaired the connectors, checked the stator DCV and ACV output - both within specs with engine off, at idle and 5k rpm.  Installed a new R/R a checked the charging volts - also in specs.  Installed a Datel digital voltmeter wired the same way as the old Kuryakyn LED meter - positive lead tapped into the taillight circuit with in-line fuse and grounded to frame.  Meter works and looks great but I get different, i.e. .5-.6 volts lower readings than my multimeter gets at the battery.

Engine Off: meter - 11.6-11.8v

                  battery - 12.02v

At Idle: meter - 13.5v

            battery - 14.01-14.03v

 

Why the difference?  How am I losing voltage?  Is there a better and equally convenient pos wire to tap into?  Wiring is not my forte so be kind.  Thanks.

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Measuring charging volts anywhere else than at the battery will not give an accurate reading. This is just because of normal voltage drop.

In your case you'll have voltage drop through the wiring all the way from battery to fuse to ignition switch to tail light, then the return ground wire to frame then to the battery negative.

Try at least having your negative voltmeter lead directly connected to the battery, see if that improves things. 

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OK, I was wondering if voltage naturally drops as it transits the system.  I'll try moving the neg lead to the battery - thanks!

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Yes, there is some natural voltage drop. I don't find it to be a particular problem, just something to be aware of. If your OCD demands that the number on the meter absolutely reflect battery voltage, then change it, otherwise, half a volt either way isn't going to make much difference in the short term.

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