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GreenOnion84

1995 - Stops charging when warm

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Okay, so here goes.

 

 I have charging issues when the bike is warmed up.  I replaced the stator as well as the R/R.  I also replaced the connector going into the R/R due to one burnt connector.  Amps coming out of the stator are good.  

 

When the bike is cold and the battery is full, it charges above 14 at 5k rpm.  However, after the bike gets to running temps, the voltage drops and charges around 12.8-13k and slowly drops.  

 

Could this be a ground issue?  At this point I'm exhausted and getting angry at spending a lot of money just to not have the issue fixed.

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Have a very close inspection of the 30a main fuse within your starter relay for any sign of heat stress, it can suffer from hi resistance contacts. Make sure the R/R ground measures rock solid back to the battery negative terminal.

Are you also sure your battery is healthy? Make sure it's connections are clean and tight.

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31 minutes ago, Grum said:

Have a very close inspection of the 30a main fuse within your starter relay for any sign of heat stress, it can suffer from hi resistance contacts. Make sure the R/R ground measures rock solid back to the battery negative terminal.

Are you also sure your battery is healthy? Make sure it's connections are clean and tight.

I forgot to mention I also shelled out money for a new battery.  I'm going to take it to have it tested again today just to make sure nothing has happened in the meantime.  Am I able to take the ground off the starter relay and wire it directly to the negative terminal of the battery?  What about the positive, can I wire that directly to the battery as well and just bypass the starter relay all together?  I understand I'd have to have an in-line fuse, but I'm afraid of bypassing the starter relay with the positive and ground.

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46 minutes ago, GreenOnion84 said:

Am I able to take the ground off the starter relay and wire it directly to the negative terminal of the battery?  What about the positive, can I wire that directly to the battery as well and just bypass the starter relay all together?  I understand I'd have to have an in-line fuse, but I'm afraid of bypassing the starter relay with the positive and ground.

No need to be doing bypass. You can't bypass the starter relay all together! You wouldn't be able to start your bike! You don't have any starting issues anyway!

Unplug the R/R connector and just make sure the Green ground wire measure zero ohms back to the Negative terminal, you could also confirm the same for the Red/white wire to the battery Positive terminal.

Have a very close look at your main fuse and its connections in the starter relay as mentioned.

Also when you have the fault active back probe the three stator wires coming into your R/R and confirm the AC voltage is not lost. 

Good luck.

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54 minutes ago, Grum said:

No need to be doing bypass. You can't bypass the starter relay all together! You wouldn't be able to start your bike! You don't have any starting issues anyway!

Unplug the R/R connector and just make sure the Green ground wire measure zero ohms back to the Negative terminal, you could also confirm the same for the Red/white wire to the battery Positive terminal.

Have a very close look at your main fuse and its connections in the starter relay as mentioned.

Also when you have the fault active back probe the three stator wires coming into your R/R and confirm the AC voltage is not lost. 

Good luck.

Okay, I wasn't sure if that was the main wire powering it or if it was just an additional plug into it.  I'll have to recheck all of it.  I checked it all before and everything seemed to be in working order.  I've also tried multiple regulators just in case and they're all reading the same.  I'm at work now, but I'll recheck the connections tonight.

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Any idea where the grounds connect to the frame?  If they were corroded, that would affect it too right?  When I search for it I can't find the locations of the actual grounds on the frame.

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Posted (edited)

The wiring harness has a ground point on the right side of the frame not too far from the stator plug.  The ground from the battery is connected on the left side of the bike near the front of the motor.  Check out page 1-35 and 1-37 of the service manual.

Edited by COS_VFR
additional info

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56 minutes ago, COS_VFR said:

The wiring harness has a ground point on the right side of the frame not too far from the stator plug.  The ground from the battery is connected on the left side of the bike near the front of the motor.  Check out page 1-35 and 1-37 of the service manual.

Awesome.  You're the man.  Thank you very much

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Checked it all again. All voltage readings came out fine. Once again as soon as it got warm the voltages dropped like a rock and it stopped charging. 

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40 minutes ago, GreenOnion84 said:

Checked it all again. All voltage readings came out fine. Once again as soon as it got warm the voltages dropped like a rock and it stopped charging. 

Warm up the bike to the fault point, stop the engine and unplug the stator connector run the engine and confirm the AC voltage output is correct or not. Or perhaps just back probe the conector and see if you're loosing AC input volts.

Assume you don't have any added accessories that could be causing issues with current draw?

And for the third time, have you throughly checked the main fuse and its connection for hi resistance joints or heat stress within the starter relay? 

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1 hour ago, Grum said:

Warm up the bike to the fault point, stop the engine and unplug the stator connector run the engine and confirm the AC voltage output is correct or not. Or perhaps just back probe the conector and see if you're loosing AC input volts.

Assume you don't have any added accessories that could be causing issues with current draw?

And for the third time, have you throughly checked the main fuse and its connection for hi resistance joints or heat stress within the starter relay? 

We checked the main fuse and all the connections. I took it apart to make sure it was clean. Fuse looked good and no burnt connectors. Earlier we checked all the voltages and they were reading identical to the battery and the connector coming out of the regulator. 

 

I ran it until it got hot hot and the fan started to turn on and off. Stators Amps decreased but were consistent on all 3 wires. It was around 45 amps at about 5-6k rpm, which is lower than when it was cold. However, I just replaced the stator yesterday with a brand new one. The new one is giving these readings. 

 

One thing to note, while I was playing with the headlights I flicked it from high to low and the lights turned completely off for a couple seconds. During this time the charging jumped from 13v to 14v. When the lights turned back on to the low beam the voltage went back down into the 12s. 

 

Will a bad connection with the headlight switch affect it like that or was that just a weird anomaly. 

 

I hate electrical crap. I’m not good at it and franctly it makes me really mad that I can’t figure it out. 

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1 hour ago, GreenOnion84 said:

I ran it until it got hot hot and the fan started to turn on and off. Stators Amps decreased but were consistent on all 3 wires. It was around 45 amps at about 5-6k rpm, which is lower than when it was cold. However, I just replaced the stator yesterday with a brand new one. The new one is giving these readings. 

Assume you mean 45v AC (not Amps!) most stators at 5000rpm would normally generate an AC voltage of greater than 50v AC. 45v AC seems low.

Wonder if you have a load issue that is dropping your charge voltage.

 

You could try removing Fuses A,B,C and E running the bike on minimum electrics and see if the fault returns. If it dissappears then one by one insert the fuses till you find the one causing the excessive load. As you mentioned there could well be something strange happening with your headlights, so try the bike with just the bare essential electrics to run and monitor your battery charge voltage at the battery.

 

According to the service manual your charge voltage should be between 13.5 to 16v at 5000rpm.

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5 hours ago, Grum said:

Assume you mean 45v AC (not Amps!) most stators at 5000rpm would normally generate an AC voltage of greater than 50v AC. 45v AC seems low.

Wonder if you have a load issue that is dropping your charge voltage.

 

You could try removing Fuses A,B,C and E running the bike on minimum electrics and see if the fault returns. If it dissappears then one by one insert the fuses till you find the one causing the excessive load. As you mentioned there could well be something strange happening with your headlights, so try the bike with just the bare essential electrics to run and monitor your battery charge voltage at the battery.

 

According to the service manual your charge voltage should be between 13.5 to 16v at 5000rpm.

Okay, I’ll give it a shot. I’m going to have the battery tested too just to make sure it hasn’t gone bad with all this crap. 

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i dont know that i can help you, but i am fallowing  your post, i have the same issues, if i figure mine out i will let you know. please post your fix. thanks

 

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Just guessing...Sounds like a bad stator leg while hot. Search for "the drill" charging system test and run while hot.

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4 hours ago, mello dude said:

Just guessing...Sounds like a bad stator leg while hot. Search for "the drill" charging system test and run while hot.

x2 on this - my suspicion as well. 

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Adding "The Drill" link.

 

 

 

Hey look, I can thank myself... 🤣

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9 hours ago, mello dude said:

Just guessing...Sounds like a bad stator leg while hot. Search for "the drill" charging system test and run while hot.

Agree, but that would be pretty unlucky as the OP states he's fitted a new Stator!

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unsolvable charging problems can sometimes be traced to the plug atop the starter solenoid, where signs of heat-distress often appear.

 

 

june_1_2019_014.JPG

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2 hours ago, Grum said:

Agree, but that would be pretty unlucky as the OP states he's fitted a new Stator!

Yeah I saw that... would be unlucky... or a cheap aftermarket part.. 

 

Agree on squirrelmans point too... 

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52 minutes ago, mello dude said:

Yeah I saw that... would be unlucky... or a cheap aftermarket part.. 

 

Agree on squirrelmans point too... 

Yeah me to,  that's why I mentioned three times for the OP to check the main fuse and starter relay area. He claims all is good there to!

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Okay, here's an update.

 

I purchased the stator from Rick's Motorsport.  I suspected the stator might be defective because I didn't think the AC volts were sitting where they should , so I sent it in for testing.  Rick's told me the stator looked good, but they noticed one of the wires was pinched.  I'm not sure if this would cause weird AC readings, but they replaced the wire and tested the stator.  They said it tested good and are sending it back.  I should receive it July 2nd.  

 

At this point, I'm still lost.  I'll put the stator back in with the new wiring while being extremely careful.  Though I'm suspecting I was not the culprit of the pinched wire, as it sits inside an indent on the stator cover and gets covered by a metal bracket looking piece.  Then we will see.  

 

Besides the ground on the left side near the engine block, and the ground on the right side near the stator plug, is there a ground cluster anywhere?  I saw on the VFR800 there is actually a large ground cluster that is orange in color.  Do the 750's have anything similar to that where it is hidden inside the wiring tape?  I also heard of a ground cluster near the headlights.  Is that on this model?  I can't find any information on any type of ground cluster on this year VFR.

 

I guess I'll update more on the 2nd as to whether the new stator wiring helped.  If not, I'll be out of town on vacation until late July and again for a few weeks in August.  so I guess there will not be much riding for me. 

😕

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On 6/15/2019 at 9:26 PM, Grum said:

Yeah me to,  that's why I mentioned three times for the OP to check the main fuse and starter relay area. He claims all is good there to!

 

I took the main fuse out and even replaced it even though it looked good, just to be sure.  I also took apart the starter relay ground and checked it.  I unplugged it and checked the plug as well.  I sprayed the connector with electrical connector cleaner just to be safe.  All looks great over there.

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6 hours ago, GreenOnion84 said:

At this point, I'm still lost.  I'll put the stator back in with the new wiring while being extremely careful.  Though I'm suspecting I was not the culprit of the pinched wire, as it sits inside an indent on the stator cover and gets covered by a metal bracket looking piece.  Then we will see.  

That sounds promising. A pinched wire with the screws on that cover plate has caused issues with other people. It could well be a situation when heated it shorts to frame.

Good luck with the repaired unit when it arrives. Confirm your AC Output voltage before connecting to the R/R.

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23 hours ago, Grum said:

That sounds promising. A pinched wire with the screws on that cover plate has caused issues with other people. It could well be a situation when heated it shorts to frame.

Good luck with the repaired unit when it arrives. Confirm your AC Output voltage before connecting to the R/R.

Thank you. I wasn’t aware that would cause it to short to the frame in there. That gives me hope. I looked up how to do the diode test if regulators and it would appear based on that test that my ricks regulator is still good as none of the diodes appeared to fail and read consistent. So Tuesday night when the new stator arrives I’ll hook it up and test it some more.  

 

They did say it tested amazing before sending it back. 

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