IssaquahVFR Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Does anyone have a PCV map with a modified fuel pressure regulator? I recently put a PCV on my 2002 and have been running with a wideband to verify mixures. All the maps I've tried are rich, and I am assuming that this is because I have a modified FPR (for now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marvelicious Posted May 14, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted May 14, 2019 So I don't have any answers for you, but I do have a couple of questions/// FPR modified... how and why? Also, how rich are the maps showing? It would make sense though... a higher pressure means everything gets richer. I assume you have other mods for the engine to breath better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IssaquahVFR Posted May 14, 2019 Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 The FPR is modified per the thread on here about it. Raised fuel pressure to 41 psi. The bike has/had the classic surge at 4500-ish RPM. What I discovered after the modification was that it is not related to fuel pressure or anything else, it is a duty cycle that happens (at least with my bike) after the temp reaches 175 degrees. It is about a 3 second cycle that the fuel mixture turns super lean (16.5:1 or so), and then goes back to a normal range. I guess this is where the power commander would shine, it corrects the over-lean and over-rich condition the ECU constantly cycles between. With the maps available on the forum, cruise was about 12.5:1, full throttle was 11.0:1, both way too rich. I have leaned all the cells by -20 and gotten the mixture pretty close at 14.0-ish:1 at cruise and 12.5:1 at full throttle. Transitions between the cruise and full look good too. I do have a dyno day with 2 Wheel Dynoworks next Wednesday for final tuning. I have a slip on exhaust, which is it for now. I've balanced the SV's and replaced the fuel filter and whatnot. I am actually going to replace the regulator back to stock, as increasing the fuel pressure didn't do anything to help the bike (tried it before buying the power commander). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted May 14, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted May 14, 2019 How do you get these exact numbers for F/A ratio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IssaquahVFR Posted May 14, 2019 Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 Wideband sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marvelicious Posted May 14, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted May 14, 2019 Ah, I hadn't run across that thread before... Yeah, it might be worth going back to stock on that and just dialing in the PC. I will say that one of the big things you gain by going to a PCV on a pre-06 bike is mapping by gear. The pre-06 stuff has a single map ECU factory and having the ability to modify the maps by gear is a big improvement by all accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IssaquahVFR Posted May 14, 2019 Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 57 minutes ago, Marvelicious said: Ah, I hadn't run across that thread before... Yeah, it might be worth going back to stock on that and just dialing in the PC. I will say that one of the big things you gain by going to a PCV on a pre-06 bike is mapping by gear. The pre-06 stuff has a single map ECU factory and having the ability to modify the maps by gear is a big improvement by all accounts. That actually brings up a question... The PCV I received directly from Dyno Jet did not come with O2 eliminators. Called them...they said they found that the bikes ran better with the stock senors attached. This seemed a little strange, but in reading other bike forums it sounded like they may have done this to not upset the EPA. So, I have run both with the sensors attached (which left me blind as to mixture, but tailpipe readings were still rich), and also disconnected (made my own eliminators). Didn't really notice any driveability difference with them connected/disconnected. The PCV must override them or something. So, question is, does the PCV come with the gearing pre-calibrated? Read it somewhere on here that it was. I guess I can figure all of this out later when I get home, but heck, I'm impatient when my brain is itching! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marvelicious Posted May 14, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted May 14, 2019 I bought my bike with the LV pipes and the PC3 and the PO had it dyno tuned. I've got the sheet somewhere and they got some pretty impressive numbers out of it, but it's definitely on the rich side and it's a bit more thirsty than I'd like for the type of riding I do. Between that and the map by gear thing, I recently pickup up a PC5 with their wideband 2 controller and their POD300, but I haven't set it all up yet, so I'm still running on theories and guesses, so don't take any of this as gospel. 1 hour ago, IssaquahVFR said: The PCV I received directly from Dyno Jet did not come with O2 eliminators. Called them...they said they found that the bikes ran better with the stock senors attached. This seemed a little strange, but in reading other bike forums it sounded like they may have done this to not upset the EPA. That's the assumption I've been running on since I heard they were recommending that now... If I understand all the theory correctly, O2 eliminators force the bike to always run in "open loop" mode, meaning the bike just runs on it's base map - which the PC steps in and modifies. Without eliminators, any conditions where the bike would normally run in open loop mode (WOT for example) are unchanged. Then, when the bike switches to closed loop mode, your custom PC map is adding a bit more fuel (generally) and the stock system is steadily trying to lean it back out, but since closed loop mode only happens under certain conditions - partial throttle, certain RPM ranges, full temp, etc... - it probably doesn't cause any issues as you probably aren't really hurting anything by running a bit leaner than you intend. It still isn't going to go any leaner than stock targets. As long as it doesn't feel rough, you'll probably save fuel. As soon as you give it the beans, it goes back into open loop mode with your tweaked map. I will say, I don't think you should run with the stock O2 sensors while tuning, or while running an autotune. You're trying to make a new base map, you don't want a moving target! I will also say that I think Dynojet oversold their autotune. Their ad copy makes it seem like a magical solution to constantly keep your bike running perfectly at your target AFR. It's a tuning aid... that's it. That's why I bought the wideband 2 instead of the autotune... The wideband 2 is just an autotune with extra connections so it can run stand-alone... because I also own a few carbed bikes. As for whether the map-by-gear comes calibrated, I'm not sure yet... If I remember right, it does have some setup done, but I don't know if it is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IssaquahVFR Posted May 14, 2019 Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 Well, I'm going to go down the rabbit hole. Just ordered the Autotune. I do like the idea of messing with this stuff myself. I've had a few Aprilia's (RSV4RF and a couple Mille's) and there was very little you could really do to them without spending big money. I am a tinkerer, that's half the fun. That is partially why I adjusted the fuel pressure...to see what would happen, lol. It will be interesting to see what Autotune suggests compared to what I have come up with so far. In an email response I got back from 2 Wheel Dynoworks (they are regarded pretty highly around here, for whatever it's worth) they said "There is no ability, or reason, to create individual gear maps with these Power Commanders on the VFR's". Strange. They must not really know the VFR's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marvelicious Posted May 14, 2019 Member Contributer Share Posted May 14, 2019 Ha! Well, I can say with absolute certainty that the ability is built into the PCV on all bikes... no matter whether your stock computer supported it. As for no reason, I can think of several offhand... If you think about it, unless you're actually racing the Isle of Man or something, you probably don't really want max power at the top end of 6th anyway. My priorities lean toward fuel efficiency in 5th and 6th and smoothness in 1st and 2nd. 3rd and 4th, I probably won't alter significantly from the dyno tuned map I have. I have always gotten the feeling that there's a bit of the charlatan in most dyno operators. Don't get me wrong, data collection absolutely has value, but to act like the only priority is horsepower for guys who ride their bikes on the street? Give me a break... Dyno time isn't cheap though, so I certainly wouldn't want to pay for 6 different maps! I know what you mean about tinkering... I'd really rather do it myself and understand what I did than pay someone else and take their word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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