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MooseMoose

Installing the new performance header on 5th gen

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Penetrene, wd-40 or other similar products. I suggest spraying on at night and tackling it the next day 

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Don't be intimidated by this job. Especially of you have a second set of hands to help you spread the front pipes to fit the ports. I posted my issues as well as success to show you that there might be tiny problems, but they'll all be easily handled with patience.  From reports so far, I think mine might have been the wobbliest of them -- nobody else has bumped into their fairing and everyone else has been able to get their outlet past the centerstand without dropping it -- so I bet you don't even have the minor hassles I did.

 

4 hours ago, interceptor69 said:

 I was told earlier that I needed to spray something on the old header nuts so that they don't pull the entire bolt out of the engine before I try to take them off. What exactly should I spray on them?
 

Use Anti-Sieze grease. I used this kind:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/versachem-5169/chemicals---fluids-16461/maintenance-chemicals-16867/grease---lube-16582/anti-seize-17774/31f81cb18df6/versachem-anti-seize-lubricant/13109/4776633?pos=8

 

I chose it because it was available at a local auto parts store and SF had used it as well. I live a few exits down the freeway, so we probably bought it at the same store.

 

I would also be perfectly happy with the Permatex brand Anti Sieze. Comes in a similar tube. My mechanic friend uses a different brand of Copper bearing (maybe Loc-Tite) as well.

 

The problem comes in taking the nuts off after they've been heated up and cooled down many hundreds of degrees over a couple of years. This helps with that.  I used a dab of it on the threads of the o2 sensors, as well. Be careful not to get it near the holes, but I figured it should be used. When you buy an o2 sensor for a car or truck it'll normally come with antisieze already on it and so I assumed it was needed. And in this application it definitely won't hurt anything.
 

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Thanks for the advice-I hope to tackle this job soon.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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+1, +2, +3 on all the compliments for MooseMoose's detailed documentation of his header install odyssey! Great work, and thanks to him for all the extra time he put into sharing so much pertinent information with the community.

 

Here are a couple observations/additions that occurred while reading this thread:

 

- Header stud nuts, torque, and anti-seize

Confirmed - 9ft-lbs is more than enough to hold things together ESPECIALLY if using anti-seize. I bent flanges on the prototype headers when I used anti-seize and torqued the nuts to 9 ft-lbs. I suspect that at 9ft-lbs, the lubrication component of the anti-seize allows greater force to be exerted than 9ft-lbs on 'dry' threads with no anti-seize. I have chosen to wipe the anti-seize from the studs' threads on the 4 VFRs I've been using for the header project. I say 'wipe off' because I just remove what will come off with a rag and do not clean with any cleaner or solvent.

 

CAUTION 6 GEN OWNERS: in the list of torque values on page 2-3 of the 6 gen service manual, Honda states 'exhaust pipe flange nut' 15 ft-lbs. This is NOT the nut NOR the torque value of the header stud nuts we use to hold our headers to our heads. That sounded weird, but this problem with Japanese-to-English translation has caused one owner of new headers to overtorque the header stud nuts. Thankfully, no damage occurred.

 

Honda calls the header stud nuts 'Special Nuts', which sounds like a breakfast cereal one would eat while listening to MooseMoose's fictional band 'Overtorqued Nuts'. [Actually Honda calls them 'exhaust pipe joint special nuts' and specifies their torque value at the aforementioned 9ft-lbs]

 

Later in section 2 of the 6 gen manual the exhaust component torque values shown on the drawings are correct.

 

Be patient with the special nuts. As MooseMoose suggests, make circuits around all the nuts starting when they are all just finger tight. I've had 9-10 shots at removing and installing headers recently, and this procedure works best for me:

Once all 8 nuts are finger tight using a socket on extensions but no wrench, go through all 8 nuts in a circuit around the bike, adding 1/2 turn of tension. This takes a fair amount of time, but keeps all the exhaust components gently easing together into their happiest states. As soon as a  1/2 turn begins to require more tension - this will happen on one or two nuts before it happens on the others - switch to the torque wrench and set it at 5 ft-lbs. Go around another circuit of all 8 nuts, adding another 1/2 turn only where necessary until all 8 nuts reach 5 ft-lbs. Change the torque wrench setting to 6 ft-lbs and go around again, taking each nut up to 6 ft-lbs. Change the wrench's setting to 7 ft-lbs, rinse and repeat. On both 5 gen test bikes, going from 7 ft-lbs to 8 ft-lbs required only a tiny bit of wrench rotation, and going from 8 ft-lbs to 9 didn't produce any movement at all - I believe this is because the nuts were tight enough at 8 ft-lbs, and probably would have been safely secure at 7 ft-lbs. On the 8 gen test bike, the nuts stopped moving at 8 ft-lbs instead of 7 ft-lbs. Wade laughs at me when I crawl around the perimeter of a VFR with a torque wrench, carefully setting each nut. He says "Just tighten 'em until they stop crushing the gasket!". I guess with as much experience as he has, he can confidently 'feel' when the gasket stops crushing. I've chosen to stay with the torque wrench...it is my friend.

 

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After test fitting my first header about 10 times so far (I had a clearance issue I will document later) in addition to the above look at the header flanges, and keep them even with the pipe flanges. The crush washers will make up the difference unless the pipes are severely misaligned. I would also recommend thoroughly cleaning your studs, and nuts before assembly. I had one nut that gave me fits. Managed to clean up the threads with the help of multiple cheap bolts, but a tap would have been better. If yours are really nasty you should probably plan on just replacing them.

 

BTW  a 50/50 mix of acetone, and ATF is excellent penetrant. PB Blaster is good as well.

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I was wondering if I should just replace those old crusty nuts- mine have never been off and they look very rusty.

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1 hour ago, interceptor69 said:

Where does one order the replacement nuts?

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Your favorite OEM part supplier. I get mine from Rocky Mountain MC/ATV. YMMV.

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I suppose I have been lucky over the years as I have not needed to order hardly any parts-my VFR has been incredibly reliable. I just assumed that a 21 year old motorcycle might not have a lot of OEM parts still available.

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I'm just now noticing that some parts are getting less available. Compared to a few years ago when I picked up my 5th gen, that is, some stuff that was to be found then is now dropping off. Fairing pieces, hoses, etc.  Still a good selection of parts, though.

 

Anyway The special nuts are part number 90304-HB3-771  and can be had anywhere. Just do a web search. They're about $4.50 each and Honda uses them on all kinds of motorcycles, so there's no problem with them going out of stock any time soon.

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