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paulmeisterpk

07 R1 Racecar Project Cranks but Won't Start

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Hello,
I have installed a 2007 Yamaha R1 engine in my SCCA D-sports (P2) racer build.
I got the engine installed back in summer 2017, and was able to get it fired up with the stock wiring harness, with a few connectors jumpered to simulate a key switch and kill switch, along with resistors to simulate the tip over sensor. I am not using the stock gauge cluster in the car.

I started a new job right after I got it fired up, and sent in the ECU to superbike unlimited to be programmed with a more aggressive fuel and timing curve. I didn't get much of a chance to work on the car again until this last fall.

I have finished with most of the other work on the car now, and tried to start up the engine with the programmed ECU this winter. I also have removed the connectors for the radiator fan relays, headlight, turn signal, and tail lights.
The engine would not start. The starter cranks, but I have no spark.

I have fuel pump prime, and i can hear the throttle servo power up. I pulled a plug to check for spark, and I have no spark, and the plugs are dry. No injectors.

I have checked the cylinder ID sensor(cam position), and it fluctuates in voltage just like the service manual says it should. I also checked the resistance on the pickup coil (crank position) sensor, and it was within spec.

I questioned whether removing the fan and light relays from the harness could have messed something up, or if the ECU could have been screwed up when it was reprogrammed, so I bought a used harness out of a running bike, and a stock ECU out of another running bike. I have substituted the harness in with the exact same results, and after that, the other ECU in. Still have crank, but no spark. The harness also came with a tip over sensor, so I was able to use that instead of the resistors, but still no change.

So my question is, what signals does the ECU need to see in order to fire? Is there an output voltage test I can do with the crank position sensor? I always found resistance only tests to be inconclusive. The crank position sensor is a 2-wire sensor.

 

Any ideas would help.

Thanks in advance.

Paul

Wiring Diagram R1 07.pdf

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Do you have the R1 dashboard?  If so, check if there are any error codes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1mNYU0Zr2M

 

Report back if you do.

 

Seems other people have no problems starting their R1s with broken fan or headlight relays; at least individually, they don't appear to be required for startup.  That said, the ECU provides ground signal to energize both of these relays.

 

You could check the cam and crank position sensors for proper function with an oscilloscope; you won't get any truly meaningful information with a regular multi meter.

 

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If the starter cranks then your neutral switch circuit is intact. I haven't looked at the diagram yet, but the issue seems to simulate the kill switch being in the off position. Barring that simple solution, I'd take a closer look at all of your ground points to make sure they are clean and securely connected. 

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Have you confirmed the Bank Angle Sensor input to the ECU? Have you got the BAS at the correct angle? If the BAS is similar to Honda, then if it is tripped you need to turn ignition to OFF then ON again to reset it with the correct upright angle for the BAS.

I can't work out from the drawing if the BAS supplies ground or voltage to the ECU, as all three wires of the BAS are from/to the ECU. You need to verify what is the correct input. If it was a Honda, the BAS does kill both Injectors and Spark as well as inhibiting the Starter Circuit and Fuel Pump, the starter might not be inhibited with yours.

 

My first impression was the crank sensor or cylinder identification sensor, however you seem to have isolated them.

 

Fully confirm all 12v supply and grounds are valid for the ECU, check these at the ECU itself. Also make sure the 12v is available at Injectors and the Spark Coils when (I assume) the Ignition is ON.

 

A faulty Kill Switch (58) would inhibit the Starter from cranking, you don't have this issue.

 

Are you saying things were working UNTIL the ECU reprogramming? That's a bit of a worry!

Hope this helps.

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I am unfamiliar with the R1 but, Is there someway to output error codes with a jerry rigged engine light?

 

Make sure all the electrical slider connections are seated properly in their plastic plug housings. Sometimes they get pushed or stretched out of position and look connected but arn't.

 

My Buell had the same intermittent problem and it turned out to be a faulty ignition relay. The relay clicked all the systems worked but no spark or fuel.

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I do not have the OEM gauge cluster. I have a Mychron gauge cluster that I will be using, that is very small, as I don't have much room near the steering wheel.

Unfortunately, I don't have an oscilloscope to look at the signals from the crank position sensor. I have a peak voltage meter and still get less than 1 volt generated.

 

I will double check the kill switch circuit is working. I don't think it would crank the starter if it wasn't but I'll check.

 

I will double check the bank angle sensor signal back to the ecu again as well. I do have it at the right angle, it has a large "UP" written on it. I have tried the other bank angle sensor as well (it came attached to the harness I bought), but still no change.

 

I will check the 12V supply and grounds at the ECU as well. 

Yes, I had it running before the ECU was sent for reprogramming. I have tried another ECU with no change, so I don't think that is the issue.

 

I'll check over the plug connectors just to make sure nothing has come apart, or terminals have pushed back into the plugs.

I don't know of any way to get the codes using an engine light.

 

I may end up wiring back in all the wires that would have been for the gauge cluster and buying a used cluster off of EBAY just to run codes. That will be a project wiring everything back in.

 

Thanks for the help. Paul

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9 hours ago, Zarquon said:

I am unfamiliar with the R1 but, Is there someway to output error codes with a jerry rigged engine light?

Unfortunately not, the panel is required because they are actually printed out on an LCD display rather than light flashes.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, paulmeisterpk said:

I do not have the OEM gauge cluster. I have a Mychron gauge cluster that I will be using, that is very small, as I don't have much room near the steering wheel.

Unfortunately, I don't have an oscilloscope to look at the signals from the crank position sensor. I have a peak voltage meter and still get less than 1 volt generated.

 

I will double check the kill switch circuit is working. I don't think it would crank the starter if it wasn't but I'll check.

 

I will double check the bank angle sensor signal back to the ecu again as well. I do have it at the right angle, it has a large "UP" written on it. I have tried the other bank angle sensor as well (it came attached to the harness I bought), but still no change.

 

I will check the 12V supply and grounds at the ECU as well. 

Yes, I had it running before the ECU was sent for reprogramming. I have tried another ECU with no change, so I don't think that is the issue.

 

I'll check over the plug connectors just to make sure nothing has come apart, or terminals have pushed back into the plugs.

I don't know of any way to get the codes using an engine light.

 

I may end up wiring back in all the wires that would have been for the gauge cluster and buying a used cluster off of EBAY just to run codes. That will be a project wiring everything back in.

 

Thanks for the help. Paul

Shame about the dash, unfortunately they are damn expensive on ebay too.  If the wires and connectors are gone, it might be more work and money than the time it might save to re-wire the OEM dash.

 

I see an immobilizer on the schematic also.  Do you still have it wired in or did you figure out a bypass?

 

My other possible suspects are wiring (as always) and 12. Starting circuit cut-off relay.

 

Can you do me a favor and check the voltage at any ignition coil from red/black to chassis ground and at any injector from Red/Violet(?) to ground with the key on (no cranking)?

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I bit the bullet and ordered a used gauge cluster on Ebay. Uggg....It wasn't cheap.

 

The US bikes did not have the immobilizer, so that is one thing I don't have to worry about. 

 

I will check the voltage at the ignition coil when I am back working on the car again next weekend. Unfortunately, the car is not near me during the week.

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