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sfdownhill

New 5th/6th/8th gen performance header now in production in USA

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Haven’t got round to mine yet and will be a while as I’m basically ticking off several boxes (R/R, VFRness, Ohlins, Headers, Staintune, PC3 & solo tail box mount)... but I’d expect a fair bit of fiddling to get a proper header installed. Rubber mallet and 2x4s are your friends.


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1 hour ago, MiniCarver said:

Finally got around to installing the pipe. The front was pretty far off and misaligned. CornerCarver had to lay on the ground and push the front right with his foot while I worked it into place. 

IMG_20190505_153912.jpg

 

That's exactly the way the original Two Brothers pipes they were patterned off of fit.   Everyone should expect this.

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Mine were like that, it wasn't a problem at all tho just put one pipe in and pulled the other into place

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16 hours ago, MooseMoose said:

 

That's exactly the way the original Two Brothers pipes they were patterned off of fit.   Everyone should expect this.

I knew it wasn't be an exact perfect fit. Just letting everyone know what I had to do to get it in place. If you're trying to install this by yourself be prepared to become a novice contortionist. 

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36 minutes ago, MiniCarver said:

I knew it wasn't be an exact perfect fit. Just letting everyone know what I had to do to get it in place. If you're trying to install this by yourself be prepared to become a novice contortionist. 

 

To be fair, I've seen your watch band size and IIRC your header could also wear your watch... :goofy: 

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24 minutes ago, SEBSPEED said:

 

To be fair, I've seen your watch band size and IIRC your header could also wear your watch... :goofy: 

Yep, right at the mid-pipe connection lol

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Fitting headers is always a bit of a battle. Beats trying to do em on a V8 car though....


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14 minutes ago, MiniCarver said:

Yep, right at the mid-pipe connection lol

:laughing6-hehe:

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BTW, In regards to a center stand stop, Seb has agreed to look into it for us.

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What size are the copper gaskets for the headers? 

 

I remember reading that it's recommended that we purchase a particular size of the copper gaskets from Delkevic.  I skimmed back through this forum thread but couldn't find the exact size in millimeters or a serial number or product SKU.

 

I ask this question because I thought the correct size was 42mm in copper.  I ordered a set of these gaskets (42mm size in copper) from Delkevic.  Today I was trying to install the header and discovered that on my '99 5th Gen VFR these 42mm copper gaskets do not fit.  When I try to press-fit these 42mm gaskets into the header ports the gaskets end up going "out of round" because the diameter of the gasket is just too large.

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42mm.

 

Mine did that, too. They're exactly as large as they can be, and one was even  difficult to get in there, but they worked like a charm. I had to cram them into the ports, but the headers pushed them into place and I'm leak free, first try.

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30 minutes ago, MooseMoose said:

42mm.

 

Mine did that, too. They're exactly as large as they can be, and one was even  difficult to get in there, but they worked like a charm. I had to cram them into the ports, but the headers pushed them into place and I'm leak free, first try.

Okay, I'm still in the garage right now, just finished a trial install of the headers, went ahead and used the 42mm copper gaskets because I figured that when I remove the headers tomorrow I'll be able to assess how well the gaskets seated themselves when they were pressed into the cylinder head seats by the headers.

 

My trial install went really well, I used several cargo straps as strong and consistent helpers to pull the headers in the directions I needed and then hold them steady while I guided the headers into the cylinder head seats.  This strategy worked like a charm, with cylinder number 1 and number 4 requiring the most persuasion.  I'm going to leave the header installed overnight then remove it to have a good look at the copper gaskets.

 

I live here in Denver, not far from Delkevic's address, might call them and drive over to get more gaskets.

 

I'm considering experimenting with 41mm gaskets, I don't know if I can accept the fact that the 42mm gaskets were bending "out of round" on part of their circumference when I was pressing them into the cylinder head ports.  When I remove the header tomorrow I'll know for sure.

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You want the larger gaskets so the Inner Diameter when squished isn’t sticking out into the airflow.

I think you’re overthinking this.


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53 minutes ago, ScottieDucati said:

You want the larger gaskets so the Inner Diameter when squished isn’t sticking out into the airflow.

I think you’re overthinking this.


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As I mentioned I'm concerned about the part of the circumference where the 42mm copper gasket was bowing a bit out-of-round as I was using my fingers to press-fit the gasket into the cylinder head ports.

 

No, not overthinking here, I'm going to come to a decision on this purely from the evidence provided by visual confirmation tomorrow when I remove the exhaust system.  

 

I'll take some pictures of the gaskets in the ports tomorrow after I've removed the exhaust system.  We'll see if the bowing-out resulted in and area where there's only a thin bit of the gasket crushed under the header.  And we'll see how close to the inner edge of the cylinder head exhaust port the 42mm gasket comes after being crushed in the install process.

 

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I've just finished removing the exhaust system from yesterday's trial-fitting.  Here are pictures of the installation crush results with the 42mm copper gaskets from Delkevic.  (NOTE: I didn't fully torque-to-spec on the rear cylinders so I believe the front cylinders (#2 and #4) are the best representation of the install results with the 42mm copper gaskets.  And, obviously, I wasn't watching closely when I was pressing the gaskets into the ports, otherwise I would have installed all of them with the seam facing inward which is what I intend to do for the final assembly)

 

Here is Cylinder #2:

IMG_20190508_113422_zpssaw7arvj.jpg

 

Here is Cylinder #4:

IMG_20190508_113600_zpszn3zbew7.jpg

 

Here is Cylinder #3:

IMG_20190508_113655_zpseggk9nxf.jpg

 

Here is Cylinder #1:

IMG_20190508_113842_zpshwn8gmlo.jpg

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Now that I've seen the above-pictured results I've decided to change to the 41mm copper Delkevic-supplied gaskets.  I live in Denver, 11 miles away from Delkevic and Matt (at Delkevic) has told me (via email) that I can order and pay for them at their online store and then drive over to pick them up in person at Delkevic in Littleton, CO.

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Just an opinion from the cheap seats... It looks to me like #2 would have sealed fine and #1 would have worked if it were torqued. #3 and #4 failed mostly because of the seams... 

 

Take a look at the fit in this post... 

 

 

It's your money, but after spending that kind of dough on a performance header, I'd really hesitate to create a restriction with an exhaust gasket!

 

Just my 2 cents... it always seems easier when you're not the guy on hands and knees cussing the parts that don't want to fit like you think they should.

 

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Looks to me like 1 and 2 (with the seams properly facing in) would have been just fine. 4 is the oddball here, I swear my ports look a little different on the front, but I still think 4 would have been fine if properly placed.

 

SF and Duc have done several header installs with 42mm, I'm using 42mm, all successfully. Mine sealed on the first try and have been through a dozen heat cycles and 100 miles, still good.  SF tried multiple sizes and types before coming to the 42mm Delk recommendation.

 

That said, You do what you need on your bike. You're a good mechanic and I'll be interested in your results. Please post what happens with the 41mm.

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Cylinder 1 looks as they should but not squished at all?


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2 minutes ago, ScottieDucati said:

Cylinder 1 looks as they should but not squished at all?


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4 hours ago, GreginDenver said:

(NOTE: I didn't fully torque-to-spec on the rear cylinders so I believe the front cylinders (#2 and #4) are the best representation

 

 

I think that was expected Scottie. Greg didn't torque the rear cylinders so they are just started, not fully seated at all.

 

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I saw and realized it wasn’t torqued was just hoping for an indent!


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I don't know if the cylinder castings of all of the 5th & 6th Gen VFRs are the same, but if you look closely at my pictures of the exhaust ports (above) on my 5th Gen you'll see why I was more worried about the front cylinders than the rear cylinders. 

 

The gasket seats for the rear ports have a retaining wall all the way around their circumference, but for some reason Honda decided that the front ports would have a long stretch of the circumference without a retaining wall.  I was concerned about what would happen in this section.

 

As you can see in the pictures, I got what I'd describe as some pretty weird looking gasket deformation on every cylinder: 

On both Cylinder #2 & Cylinder #4 the section that lacks a retaining wall allowed the slightly oversized gasket to bulge outward under the force of installation, on Cylinder #1 the partial crush resulted in the gasket catching the retaining sidewall and uncurling against it (don't know how far this effect would have gone with a full install crush), on Cylinder #3 the partial crush of the gasket with the seam facing outward shows a lot of stress bending and buckling.

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I just finished the final install of the header, it's midnight here in Denver but I went ahead and rolled the bike outdoors to run it.  The install is a success, no leaks, sounds great.  I let the bike idle up to about 170 degrees on the temp gauge then shut it down and pushed it back into its parking spot in my garage.

 

In the end I decided to use the 41mm copper gaskets from Delkevic.  They are just a little less than twice as fat as the 42mm copper gaskets that Delkevic sells.  Because they are fatter I knew that during the installation "crush" they would probably end up spreading inward to about the same inner diameter as the original Honda OEM gaskets.

 

I didn't like how much the OEM gasket protruded into the exhaust flow and wanted my install to be better than that, so I decided to experiment a little.

 

I purchased 8 of the 41mm copper gaskets directly from Delkevic at their location in Littleton, CO.  Got to meet and chat with Matt (at Delkevic), he was very friendly and helpful.  I modified the 41mm gaskets by "pre-pinching" them inward, only by a little bit around the outside perimeter and then by as much as possible around the inner perimeter.  I did this so that when the crush of the install occurred the gasket would have a smaller starting point from which to spread.

 

The results were pretty good.  I practiced installing a couple of my "pre-pinched" 41mm copper gaskets on the front cylinders and after the crush they ended up with an inner diameter that was noticeably wider than the original Honda gaskets (although they do protrude slightly above the inner edges of the exhaust ports).

 

So I'm satisfied, the modified 41mm gaskets provide a very good, generous footing for the end of the header to bed into and their inner diameter is better (wider) than the OEM gaskets. 

 

Good enough for me.  On to other maintenance items...

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I wish you'd taken some "after" pics!  

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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