Member Contributer VFR Newbie Posted October 29, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted October 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, jim v said: Since this thread has become the all-things-custom-headers-thread I'm posting here....... I was in on the first batch of custom headers and after install it was immediately clear that the bike would benefit from a dyno tune. Surge at small, constant throttle openings, a general lack of crisp response to inputs, etc. This wasn't a surprise, I was actually pleased - the motor needing more fuel because its moving more air is a good thing Who did the tuning for you? Rob's Dyno?? I'd like to have a chat and figure out a game plan for my 5th Gen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 30, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2020 On 10/26/2020 at 2:33 PM, GreginDenver said: Yes this is still happening. It appears that we (those of us already in with deposits on the current group-purchase) have stalled out below the number of header systems required for an order to go forward to production. So if you come in and add yourself to those who've placed deposits we'll be closer to "go!". Ok, let me dig through this thread and see who I need to contact for a deposit. Unless that person wants to contact me first 🙃 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFR Newbie Posted October 30, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, ShipFixer said: Ok, let me dig through this thread and see who I need to contact for a deposit. Unless that person wants to contact me first 🙃 Send a note to @sfdownhill and @Duc2V4. they can get you sorted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted October 30, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2020 Sent! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jim v Posted October 30, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2020 6 hours ago, VFR Newbie said: Who did the tuning for you? Rob's Dyno?? I'd like to have a chat and figure out a game plan for my 5th Gen. Seacoast Cycle in Derry. Charles is the dyno-technician, very professional. And why haven't we seen some pics of the RVF?! 🙂 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ducnut Posted October 30, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2020 7 hours ago, jim v said: My header has 3 O2 ports, one for each pair of cylinders and one downstream of the merge. Unfortunately, the header pairs the left & right cylinders (iow a front and rear). The technician highly preferred front-front & rear-rear cylinders for tuning purposes. As he said, the temp difference between front and rear cylinders is large enough to make a difference. We ended up using the single O2 port past the merge to tune. These are 180° engines, which is why the cylinders are paired as they are. Pairing them, both fronts and both rears as a 360° engine is done, will cause running issues and kill power on an 800. Black Widow have their header paired that way. I tried one and it was everything I could do to get my bike started. Once running, it acted like is was flooding, up to ~4K rpm. That experience is what got me to buy this header. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jim v Posted October 30, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2020 10 hours ago, ducnut said: These are 180° engines, which is why the cylinders are paired as they are. Pairing them, both fronts and both rears as a 360° engine is done, will cause running issues and kill power on an 800. Black Widow have their header paired that way. I tried one and it was everything I could do to get my bike started. Once running, it acted like is was flooding, up to ~4K rpm. That experience is what got me to buy this header. Thanks ducnut - I knew there was a good reason, just couldn't remember it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudutzu Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 13 hours ago, ducnut said: These are 180° engines, which is why the cylinders are paired as they are. Pairing them, both fronts and both rears as a 360° engine is done, will cause running issues and kill power on an 800. Black Widow have their header paired that way. I tried one and it was everything I could do to get my bike started. Once running, it acted like is was flooding, up to ~4K rpm. That experience is what got me to buy this header. Are the 8th gen different than the 5th or 6th gen? Because, the 8th gen has the front headers paired together and the rear paired together... 🤔 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jim v Posted October 30, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted October 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, dudutzu said: Are the 8th gen different than the 5th or 6th gen? Because, the 8th gen has the front headers paired together and the rear paired together... 🤔 I don't know much about 8th gens but that pairing can work if the header tube length is changed so the exhaust pulses arrive at the merge points at the proper time. I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreginDenver Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 You can also see from the drawing that in both cases (both the 180 degree crankshaft engine and the 360 degree crankshaft engine) the primary headers are on cylinders that provide the widest possible spacing of exhaust pulses into both the primary "Y"s and into the final merge (the "collector"). This is how you arrange things for good gas flow through an exhaust system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted October 31, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2020 On 10/29/2020 at 1:07 PM, jim v said: Since this thread has become the all-things-custom-headers-thread I'm posting here....... I was in on the first batch of custom headers and after install it was immediately clear that the bike would benefit from a dyno tune. Surge at small, constant throttle openings, a general lack of crisp response to inputs, etc. This wasn't a surprise, I was actually pleased - the motor needing more fuel because its moving more air is a good thing Here's my experience - I wanted to try the Rapid Bike system based on my web research but ultimately went with a Power Commander. Not my decision really, any reputable shop within a reasonable distance was far more experienced with the PC. One was willing to try the RB but my bike would have been patient #1. My header has 3 O2 ports, one for each pair of cylinders and one downstream of the merge. Unfortunately, the header pairs the left & right cylinders (iow a front and rear). The technician highly preferred front-front & rear-rear cylinders for tuning purposes. As he said, the temp difference between front and rear cylinders is large enough to make a difference. We ended up using the single O2 port past the merge to tune We didn't go for ultimate power but rather smooth throttle response. Even so everyone wants to see the numbers so Max HP = 106.0 Max T = 55.2. Dynoplot down below Mods are WiLD headers, flow balanced injectors, Pipercross air filter, Micron exhaust cans Results - throttle response is much, much better now. Crisp, linear, no surging, no stumbling - puts a smile on my face each time I open it up. Sadly riding season is almost over around here 😞 Dyno Plot VFR800.pdf 1.13 MB · 9 downloads I bought a RB this summer and installed it with the stock dual O2 sensors on my 6th gen. I would have added the My Tuning Bike and the single wide band sensor, but Yaman was out of stock on the MTB"s. Instalation is plug and play, very easy, the same as a PC. Anyway, unlike PC, RB tunes itself to a target AFR on the fly. It's been flawless - exceeded my expectations. It runs flawlessly at any RPM or load, and I seem to have picked up a few MPG's over the PC tune I had. RB really has its tune dialed in, at least for Gen 6's. It's more expensive than a PC V but way more capable - I've been very pleased. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted October 31, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2020 3 hours ago, GreginDenver said: You can also see from the drawing that in both cases (both the 180 degree crankshaft engine and the 360 degree crankshaft engine) the primary headers are on cylinders that provide the widest possible spacing of exhaust pulses into both the primary "Y"s and into the final merge (the "collector"). This is how you arrange things for good gas flow through an exhaust system. Hi Greg. On my 8gen the exhausts are arranged with cylinders 1 and 3 joining in a Y, with 2 and 4 joining in a Y and both Y's join at the cat. Therefore 1 and 3 are at 180deg and 2 and 4 are at 180deg = Balanced pulses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted October 31, 2020 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2020 On 10/29/2020 at 1:07 PM, jim v said: Since this thread has become the all-things-custom-headers-thread I'm posting here....... Thanks for the detailed report Jim - glad to hear you've been infected with the TRG virus [Throttle-Response-Grin]. It's something of a relief now that more guys are getting the headers set up correctly and reporting back - for a while Duc2V4, RVFR, SamuelX, and I were feeling a bit like we were hollering to the moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted October 31, 2020 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 31, 2020 On 10/30/2020 at 9:50 AM, dudutzu said: Are the 8th gen different than the 5th or 6th gen? Because, the 8th gen has the front headers paired together and the rear paired together... 🤔 dudutzu - the 8 gen headers pair the same cylinders as the 5 and 6 gen headers. The only difference is that on the 8 gen, the front two primary tubes are shaped differently to fit behind the front-mounted radiator. 5 and 6 gen have side-mounted radiators. If you've got an 8 gen, check out the 'Full Exhaust System' thread in the 8 gen forum. It is directed at the 8 gen headers and summarizes this header thread in a couple pages, including dyno charts [So you don't have to read through the 41 pages of data that's logged here]. 18 hours ago, GreginDenver said: This is how you arrange things for good gas flow through an exhaust system. A better summary statement was never made. Thanks for the detailed article Greg - you rock, always have. 17 hours ago, Grum said: Therefore 1 and 3 are at 180deg and 2 and 4 are at 180deg = Balanced pulses. Right on! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted November 1, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted November 1, 2020 On 10/30/2020 at 4:42 PM, ducnut said: These are 180° engines, which is why the cylinders are paired as they are. Pairing them, both fronts and both rears as a 360° engine is done, will cause running issues and kill power on an 800. Black Widow have their header paired that way. I tried one and it was everything I could do to get my bike started. Once running, it acted like is was flooding, up to ~4K rpm. That experience is what got me to buy this header. Sorry but that is not correct. I ran a full RC45 Shark system on my Gen5 engine and it was fine. Not as good as the new headers but it did not cause running issues and killed power. I dynoed my 825cc at 135rwhp with the Shark system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudutzu Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 On 10/31/2020 at 4:55 PM, sfdownhill said: dudutzu - the 8 gen headers pair the same cylinders as the 5 and 6 gen headers. The only difference is that on the 8 gen, the front two primary tubes are shaped differently to fit behind the front-mounted radiator. 5 and 6 gen have side-mounted radiators. If you've got an 8 gen, check out the 'Full Exhaust System' thread in the 8 gen forum. It is directed at the 8 gen headers and summarizes this header thread in a couple pages, including dyno charts [So you don't have to read through the 41 pages of data that's logged here]. I wasn't talking about your exhaust, I was referring to the factory exhaust. Factory exhaust on gen 5 and 6 combines cyliders 1+2 and 3+4. On gen 8 it combines 1+3 and 2+4. I'm just trying to get clarification if running the 1+3 and 2+4 would pose a [long term] problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted November 2, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted November 2, 2020 3 hours ago, dudutzu said: I wasn't talking about your exhaust, I was referring to the factory exhaust. Factory exhaust on gen 5 and 6 combines cyliders 1+2 and 3+4. On gen 8 it combines 1+3 and 2+4. I'm just trying to get clarification if running the 1+3 and 2+4 would pose a [long term] problem. The factory exhaust merge configuration on the 8th gen was done for manufacturing cost savings not performance. This is why the 8th gen sees the greatest benefit from the WiLD Headers. Running the WiLD Headers on an 8th gen shouldn’t cause any long term problems except difficulty wiping the sh!t eating grin off your face! 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotama Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Okay back on topic are we in production phase yet ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbandler Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 On 11/22/2020 at 5:37 AM, Gotama said: Okay back on topic are we in production phase yet ? Any updates on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny78 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Gentleman Where are we at with this? It would be nice to have a an update so those of us in the cooler climates that are working on winter bike projects can have a timeline. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted December 4, 2020 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 4, 2020 On 12/2/2020 at 6:25 AM, dbandler said: Any updates on this? On 12/3/2020 at 8:09 AM, Manny78 said: Where are we at with this? On 11/22/2020 at 2:37 AM, Gotama said: are we in production phase yet ? There is a definite theme to everyone’s curiosity, and the timing couldn’t be better. We have been negotiating with Wade the fabricator, attempting to buy our way past or navigate around his 15 unit minimum order. Last week we finally got a commitment from him to build 12 headers for 5/6 gen VFRs and 3 headers for 8 gen VFRs. These are a couple more units than we have deposits for, but the iron was finally hot, so we had to strike. As fast as we could get down to the post office, we used Priority Express to send him deposits for all 15 headers, so: WE ARE NOW IN BUILD PHASE! WOOHOO! It will be 6 weeks to get the finished headers in our hands, and about a week after that to get them all to the passivators and picked back up. Then we’ll be shipping all those shiny new pipes out to all you extraordinarily patient folks who placed deposits. One person dropped out a few days ago, so there will be an extra set of 5/6 gen headers available. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotama Posted December 5, 2020 Share Posted December 5, 2020 10 hours ago, sfdownhill said: There is a definite theme to everyone’s curiosity, and the timing couldn’t be better. We have been negotiating with Wade the fabricator, attempting to buy our way past or navigate around his 15 unit minimum order. Last week we finally got a commitment from him to build 12 headers for 5/6 gen VFRs and 3 headers for 8 gen VFRs. These are a couple more units than we have deposits for, but the iron was finally hot, so we had to strike. As fast as we could get down to the post office, we used Priority Express to send him deposits for all 15 headers, so: WE ARE NOW IN BUILD PHASE! WOOHOO! It will be 6 weeks to get the finished headers in our hands, and about a week after that to get them all to the passivators and picked back up. Then we’ll be shipping all those shiny new pipes out to all you extraordinarily patient folks who placed deposits. One person dropped out a few days ago, so there will be an extra set of 5/6 gen headers available. Yes finally I can’t wait to send you the cans I need made to the mid pipe also should sound sick afterwards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer adkfinn Posted December 5, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted December 5, 2020 SFD - Msg'ed you. I'd love to get in on this round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ShipFixer Posted December 5, 2020 Member Contributer Share Posted December 5, 2020 Great news! 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted December 7, 2020 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 7, 2020 On 12/5/2020 at 8:36 AM, adkfinn said: SFD - Msg'ed you. I'd love to get in on this round. PM engagement commenced... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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