Honda "Model Year" Discussion

[JZH]

Splitting this off from the otherwise unrelated 5th gen headers thread...

 

On 12/7/2018 at 7:34 PM, thtanner said:

More proof of the UK numbering. This is for pre-cat converter 5th gens, notice how it starts at 97

 

 

On 12/8/2018 at 3:56 PM, JZH said:

 

It's still wrong.  Motorcycle models change with "Model Years", as reflected in the bike's VIN, not calendar years, so the fact that some MY 1998 bikes were sold in late 1997 has nothing to do with the specification of the motorcyle, which is tied to the Model Year, and reflected in the bike's VIN.  But you can rest assured, that isn't the only error in the Haynes manual...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

 

On 12/8/2018 at 5:33 PM, thtanner said:

 

It's not wrong, it's just the way it was sometimes labeled in the UK and some other countries. Yes, I lived in the UK too I'm not just some dumb American, and it is NOT the first instance of this I've seen. The real model year is ofc 1998-2001 but bikes were sold late 1997, to early 2002. Some companies chose to base the dates on the first/last year reg, not the "model" years.

 

To say that the company is stupid or didn't do their research because they chose to use the year scheme many others have in the region is a bit disingenuous. 

 

It's been like that since.. well 1997 and nobody complained then 😉

 

If the question was, "what year did you buy your VFR?" then 1997 could have been correct--as would any other year since.  The reason it is "wrong" is because such a wide definition for motorcycle generations is not accurate, is subject to local differences and leads to entirely avoidable confusion.  Honda models are physically released in different markets at different times, but all of those bikes are built to a single Model Year specification (with only regional differences).  That system also aligns with Honda's development and production schedule: they finish manufacturing the current Model Year, then shut down, re-tool and begin production of the next Model Year.  Accordingly, the only rational dating system to use when you're trying to communicate which parts fit which bikes is the Honda Model Year-based dating system.  It's simple, it's consistent and it's readily accessible (it's part of the VIN, which is stamped onto the frame and recorded in the registration documents).

 

As a former UK resident, however, you will also be aware of an even more ridiculous dating system: the UK's vehicle licence registration system, under which the year-related reg letter/number changes twice each year, on 1 March and 1 September, which doesn't necessarily align with any Model Year change and predictably results in massive confusion about which parts fit which vehicle.  The only justification for this appears to be that "it's always been done that way".  I arrived in the UK in 1997 and I can assure you that I have always complained about this--and the confusing use of "first sale" and "first registration" dates instead of Model Years.  I moved away over 20 years ago, but I don't recall this ever being a problem in the USA, where the year vehicles were sold always seemed to align well with their Model Years.  My 1990 VFR750FL, for example, was (allegedly) the first RC36 delivered in the Los Angeles area, and that wasn't until April of 1990.  I still don't know how the ROW manages to get their bikes delivered late in the year before the Model Year, despite being physically located further away from Japan...

 

FWIW, the same Haynes manual you cite refers to model years on p.0.10, where it identifies the first 5th gen bike as being from the "1998 model year" and says "The VFR800 was introduced in 1998."   I have a whole shelf full of Haynes manuals and AFAIK the only one where Haynes refers to the year before the bike's first Model Year was that VFR800Fi manual.  And by the way, the second edition of that manual says '97 to '01 (not 2002, as consistency might suggest).  The '97 on the cover appears to have simply been an error, rather than any intention to follow UK convention.

 

When I was creating my web page regarding VINs several years ago I researched the origins of the Honda model numbering system, and it appeared to be more than coincidental that Honda's switch from "Frame Numbers" to VINs occurred around the same time as the US government mandated the use of the VIN system in the United States (beginning with the 1981 model year).  I traced this to a Federal Regulation (Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations Section 565.1 et seq.), which defines "model year" as follows: "Model year means the year used to designate a discrete vehicle model, irrespective of the calendar year in which the vehicle was actually produced, provided that the production period does not exceed 24 months."  

 

In looking into this earlier today I realised that the US VIN system was actually changed in 2008 (!!), which I had not noticed before...  The changes were as follows:

 

• Vehicle “make” will no longer be required to be identified in the manufacturer identifier of the VIN.
• Vehicle “make” will now need to be identified, along with other information items included in the previous version of Part 565, in the second section of the VIN, which consists of VIN positions 4-8.
• In generating VINs for vehicles that comply with Part 565, manufacturers of passenger cars and multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks with a gross vehicle weight rating of 4536 kg. (10,000 lbs.) or less will have an expanded number of characters available in positions 4, 5, and 6 of the VIN. All three of these positions may now be either numeric or alphabetic. These manufacturers will also be required to use an alphabetic character in position 7 of the VIN.

 

Anyway, the same document I read online has a useful background section: 

 

A. History and Overview of the VIN System
Since 1954, American automobile manufacturers have used a vehicle identification number (VIN) to describe and identify each of the motor vehicles they manufacture.  The early VINs came in a wide array of configurations and variations, depending on the individual manufacturer.  A move to create a more systematic VIN scheme was made in 1968, with the enactment of Federal motor vehicle safety standard (FMVSS) No. 115, which took effect January 1, 1969.  That standard required each passenger car to have a VIN that is permanently “sunk or embossed” on a part of the vehicle visible through the glazing by a person standing at the left windshield pillar. Manufacturers were required to avoid having a VIN be repeated within a 10-year period.

 

In response to a petition from the Motor Vehicle Manufacturers Association and Volkswagen of America, Inc., the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in 1976 began considering an even more structured and standardized system of VINs as well as expanding the system to additional classes of vehicles.  This process led to the current system of 17-character VINs. A final rule implementing the new system was published on August 17, 1978.  The rule stipulated that beginning with the 1981 model year, NHTSA would require that all over-the-road-vehicles sold must contain a 17-character VIN in a fixed format.  The standard further required that the VINs of any two vehicles manufactured within a 30 year period not be identical.

 

This explains why the USA has mandated the VIN system in the USA, but I believe there was also an international standards-driven UN initiative to deploy the VIN worldwide, as Honda's practice suggests.  Canadian models have used the VIN system for nearly as long as the U.S. models; Australia and Spain switched over in 1989; Austria, Germany and Italy in 1996; and Switzerland in 1997. (As of 2003, France continued to use its own, unique model designation system, but I'm fairly certain that France has since adopted the VIN system as well.)

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

[Lorne]

Might I offer this oddity to Honda's naming and numbering scheme? 

 

Honda's usual pattern is to release new models early in the calendar year. Occasionally, carryover models can be bought before New Years. One exception was the introduction of the VTR1000F, aka Firestorm/Superhawk.

 

For some reason, despite arriving in the spring of 1997 Honda labelled the VTR as a1998 model. I bought the first VTR that arrived at my dealer on April 29, 1997. Both the owner's manual and the vin indicated a 1998 model year: JH2SC3621WM000026, with the W indicating 1998. Unfortunately, I never thought to photograph the id plate which would have shown the manufacture date. 

I recall the VTR being described by Honda as an 'early release' 1998 model. I always assumed it was because Suzuki would also debut their own v-twin in 1998.

[Dutchy]

And then there's the VTR/RVT1000, SPY-1-2 (RVt cos Americans like RV's?? ),

RC51 when the VIN says SC45 saga......  and now every Tom Dick and Harry is trying to flog their RC51 as a "NH"....

 

 

Just ride the beast I'd say...  

(I know, I know the star spangled banner decal is part of the "Laguna Seca" livery, not the "CASTROL".... sue me! )

[JZH]

On 12/11/2018 at 3:03 AM, Lorne said:

Might I offer this oddity to Honda's naming and numbering scheme? 

 

Honda's usual pattern is to release new models early in the calendar year. Occasionally, carryover models can be bought before New Years. One exception was the introduction of the VTR1000F, aka Firestorm/Superhawk.

 

For some reason, despite arriving in the spring of 1997 Honda labelled the VTR as a1998 model. I bought the first VTR that arrived at my dealer on April 29, 1997. Both the owner's manual and the vin indicated a 1998 model year: JH2SC3621WM000026, with the W indicating 1998. Unfortunately, I never thought to photograph the id plate which would have shown the manufacture date. 

I recall the VTR being described by Honda as an 'early release' 1998 model. I always assumed it was because Suzuki would also debut their own v-twin in 1998.

 

Interesting.  I didn't know that.  But it is perfectly acceptable to build and sell a "1998 Model" in 1997, according to the US Federal Regs.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH