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anth85

battery or stator or both?

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Just now, thtanner said:

The last link at least bypasses the stock wiring. It's a cheap version of the roadstercycle kit

 

That a good thing or a bad thing? Bare in mind I’m in the uk so getting stuff shipped from America will take longer than I’m happy to wait withou my bike.

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12 hours ago, Grum said:

8gen_Lubrication.thumb.jpg.befa8c64ddff45c99f0fc8d54d428d67.jpg

 

I wonder if it's retrofit-able?  Engines are very similar...but I assume they've drilled the case, because I don't see any specific part in the microfiche that would spray oil onto the top of the stator.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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10 minutes ago, anth85 said:

 

That a good thing or a bad thing? Bare in mind I’m in the uk so getting stuff shipped from America will take longer than I’m happy to wait withou my bike.

 

Bypassing stock wiring is a good thing. Their wiring appears smaller than what roadster provides, though.  I would snip off the stator connector at a minimum, and solder the wires directly / heatshrink them.


If it were my bike I'd run the roadstercycle SH847 kit, unless I had no choice but to be on the road in days not weeks (Intl holiday shipping delays are something to consider this time of year.) 

 

 

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5 hours ago, JZH said:

 

I wonder if it's retrofit-able?  Engines are very similar...but I assume they've drilled the case, because I don't see any specific part in the microfiche that would spray oil onto the top of the stator.

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

The 8gen Stator housing is very different to the 6gen. Firstly, there is the addition of a Magentic Pole sensor and its wiring plus the 3 phase Stator output wires. Secondly, there is a built in oil gallery that has an orifice coupling to the engine housing, this ports oil to the stator windings giving it good heat transfer.

The other big plus as to why we are not hearing of electrical issues with 8gens is the fancy new efficient R/R and lighter electrical loads.

Cheers.

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On 11/30/2018 at 10:53 PM, thtanner said:

 

Bypassing stock wiring is a good thing. Their wiring appears smaller than what roadster provides, though.  I would snip off the stator connector at a minimum, and solder the wires directly / heatshrink them.


If it were my bike I'd run the roadstercycle SH847 kit, unless I had no choice but to be on the road in days not weeks (Intl holiday shipping delays are something to consider this time of year.) 

3

 

Ordered from there, means I can get it tomorrow and it'll be back on the road. I'll snip off the stator connector and solder it on with some heat-shrink for a tidier job.


I have confirmed with that manufacturer that they have done away with the stock harness and are connecting directly to the battery so that's pretty nice, but the wires do look a bit smaller. How many amps can the R/R put into the battery? I might snip off close to the R/R and replace the wiring with something a bit chunkier. 

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5 hours ago, anth85 said:

 

Ordered from there, means I can get it tomorrow and it'll be back on the road. I'll snip off the stator connector and solder it on with some heat-shrink for a tidier job.


I have confirmed with that manufacturer that they have done away with the stock harness and are connecting directly to the battery so that's pretty nice, but the wires do look a bit smaller. How many amps can the R/R put into the battery? I might snip off close to the R/R and replace the wiring with something a bit chunkier. 

 

I believe most regulators are 50A, at least the FH020AA, SH847, etc. I'd imagine that one won't be going over 50A, and even then, let's be real, the VFR is not pulling 50A even with high beams, fans on, and accessories.

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Update on this. Due to working full time and being a part-time matched better getting it sorted has been in bits and pieces. The new stator is in place, I couldn't find a proper gasket so had to use instant gasket which leaked oil all over the floor, so it all had to come back off and be re-applied. This time leaving it 24 hours before firing up and it seems fine. Test fires with the R/R hanging loose showed a much healthier voltage so I know all is working correctly. Last night I fitted the new R/R to the bike, took a lot longer than I'd like because my soldering iron tip is busted so joining the 3 wires from the stator took longer and resulted in a messier job than I'm happy with. I then found the R/R cables to the batter are about a foot too short and I wasn't fighting with the soldering iron anymore so I went and watched the football (soccer for the Americans on here). New more powerful soldering iron getting picked up today and I should be done tonight.


I know the 6th gen R/R is better than the 5th but I have fitted a fan to it too. I figured I have it all apart, it is not going to do any harm and I already have many spare computer fans so at worst it's a waste of 10mins, at best it extends the R/R's life.

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All done, wired in a small voltmeter that’s stuck under the speedometer so I can keep and eye on it. I did noticed it takes about 5 seconds for the voltage to jump up to 13.6v on idle from 12.4v (ish I was starting and stopping for testing). I guess this is the R/R starting itself up.

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How old is that battery?   My new one runs between 12.7  and 14.8 (stopped vs running)

 

Just interested. Above 13.5V is what's expected for charging, but it's a general guideline.

 

And regulators don't have a startup time. That's more likely the battery dragging it down until it gets over the power drain of kicking over the starter motor.

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On 12/1/2018 at 4:04 AM, Grum said:

The 8gen Stator housing is very different to the 6gen. Firstly, there is the addition of a Magentic Pole sensor and its wiring plus the 3 phase Stator output wires. Secondly, there is a built in oil gallery that has an orifice coupling to the engine housing, this ports oil to the stator windings giving it good heat transfer.

The other big plus as to why we are not hearing of electrical issues with 8gens is the fancy new efficient R/R and lighter electrical loads.

Cheers.

 

Seems we're hijacking the thread slightly, but check this:

 

2114309707_2014VFR800.thumb.jpg.78d1df2648645226aa1b9538eb9a93dd.jpg

2014 VFR800F

 

vtec.jpg.5034e72b1b873987e451bd7aeadffa85.jpg

2002 VFR800 VTEC

 

fi.thumb.jpg.94c59e5f7bcaf597feb2c7d678da9086.jpg

1998 VFR800FiW

 

I suspect the 8th gen engine case is also drilled (so a retrofit is looking unlikely), but it is funny that the stator covers have always had that large blank pad area now being used for the oil feed...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

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10 hours ago, MooseMoose said:

How old is that battery?   My new one runs between 12.7  and 14.8 (stopped vs running)

 

Just interested. Above 13.5V is what's expected for charging, but it's a general guideline.

 

And regulators don't have a startup time. That's more likely the battery dragging it down until it gets over the power drain of kicking over the starter motor.

 

The battery is brand new. It was the first thing I ordered thinking it was that. Ignition on but engine not running is about 11.7v this morning, and running is 13.6v. I presumed this was because I was starting and stopping a good few times last night when testing the wiring so the battery is probably pretty low. I'll see how it goes over the next week. 

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Yeah, man, conditioning a battery is a thing. I bet it works even better after the weekend rides.  I know you'll keep an eye on it, having a volt meter is really awesome for that, but it really sounds like you've done all the right things here.

 

Electrical trouble sucks. Best of luck!

 

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Anth85 what stator and R/R did you buy OEM or after market? I also need both, i’ve seen after market for sale on Wemoto but not sure how good they are.

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11 hours ago, Bikermike1 said:

Anth85 what stator and R/R did you buy OEM or after market? I also need both, i’ve seen after market for sale on Wemoto but not sure how good they are.

 this is what i ordered

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/G180.html

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/RR881-Regulator-Rectifier-CBR600-VFR800-CB900F-CBR900RR.html

 

They feely solidly built, but obviously i can't testify for reliability yet, they've only done 25 miles.

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15 hours ago, MooseMoose said:

Yeah, man, conditioning a battery is a thing. I bet it works even better after the weekend rides.  I know you'll keep an eye on it, having a volt meter is really awesome for that, but it really sounds like you've done all the right things here.

 

Electrical trouble sucks. Best of luck!

 

 thanks. The bike tends to stay put over the weekend to be honest. It's just a commuter. I might stick it on the battery charger for 24 hours so I know its full for monday.

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10 hours ago, anth85 said:

 this is what i ordered

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/G180.html

https://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/RR881-Regulator-Rectifier-CBR600-VFR800-CB900F-CBR900RR.html

 

They feely solidly built, but obviously i can't testify for reliability yet, they've only done 25 miles.

That’s a good price compared to OEM, the best OEM I can find is £260 from America on eBay. Anybody got any long term experience of electrexworld stator?

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4 hours ago, Bikermike1 said:

That’s a good price compared to OEM, the best OEM I can find is £260 from America on eBay. Anybody got any long term experience of electrexworld stator?

 

To be honest from the reading I’ve done about it, it doesn’t really matter which brand you put on, due to the lack of cooling it will eventually burn up. That’s why they added an extra oil spray on the 8th gen. just get one and expect to have to replace it in future so fit a visible volt meter so you have a warning.

 

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If you’ve done a lot of reading, you will know that you only go factory for stator (or a quality rewind from motorcycle specific specialists) and the new  MOSFET R&R. 

Best choice is the new SH847, or cheaper choice the FH020 new or second hand that are very easy to find at low cost. 

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4 hours ago, anth85 said:

 

To be honest from the reading I’ve done about it, it doesn’t really matter which brand you put on, due to the lack of cooling it will eventually burn up. That’s why they added an extra oil spray on the 8th gen. just get one and expect to have to replace it in future so fit a visible volt meter so you have a warning.

 

 

The SH847 may reduce stator heat, according to some.

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17 minutes ago, thtanner said:

 

The SH847 may reduce stator heat, according to some.

I wonder how that could be. Doesn't make much sense. The alternator, i.e., rotor and stator, will produce the same amount of electricity

independent of the R/R so that shouldn't affect the stator condition. Wishful thinking perhaps. 🙂

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11 hours ago, anth85 said:

 

To be honest from the reading I’ve done about it, it doesn’t really matter which brand you put on, due to the lack of cooling it will eventually burn up. That’s why they added an extra oil spray on the 8th gen. just get one and expect to have to replace it in future so fit a visible volt meter so you have a warning.

 

How does the volt meter work, what do you look for as a warning?

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35 minutes ago, Bikermike1 said:

How does the volt meter work, what do you look for as a warning?

 

I just have a switched live feed off a rear bulb, and the voltmeter screen on the dash. If the bike isn't getting upto and above 13v when in use I know there is a charging issue so to the check the stator and r/r. Without it i might go out on a long ride and run out of electric mid ride and be stranded. 

 

this is the voltmeter 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-12V-Digital-LED-Display-Voltmeter-Voltage-Gauge-Panel-Meter-Car-Motorcycle/132749600474?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=432060755097&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

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13 hours ago, FJ12Ryder said:

I wonder how that could be. Doesn't make much sense. The alternator, i.e., rotor and stator, will produce the same amount of electricity

independent of the R/R so that shouldn't affect the stator condition. Wishful thinking perhaps. 🙂

 

This seems to be the logic, but I'd like a true EE to break it down and see if it has any weight.

 

Quote

this is fundamentally different in that in a Series design, instead of diverting (shunting) excess current back to the stator to control the output voltage, the regulation works by interrupting the current path to the load. This means that the Regulator ONLY supplies current demanded by the load itself, and no excess current parallel path through a shunt. So the net result is that this type of Regulator is MUCH kinder on the stator because the stator is always supplying much less current! So the stator does not get so hot and its reliability increases significantly. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, thtanner said:

 

This seems to be the logic, but I'd like a true EE to break it down and see if it has any weight.

 

 

I don't know where that second quote came from, but that isn't how a VFR alternator works. That description only fits an alternator with electromagnets, like cars use, not

permanent magnets which most motorcycles use. The VFR outputs a set amount of electricity depending on RPM, nothing the R/R does will affect that.

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8 minutes ago, FJ12Ryder said:

I don't know where that second quote came from, but that isn't how a VFR alternator works. That description only fits an alternator with electromagnets, like cars use, not

permanent magnets which most motorcycles use. The VFR outputs a set amount of electricity depending on RPM, nothing the R/R does will affect that.

 

https://www.thevog.net/threads/nother-r-r-tale.75337/

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