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Rear wheel too tight


Katie

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If there is "drag" somewhere, there will be Friction, and Heat.

If the friction is in the Rear Caliper, it and the Rotor will heat up.

I've had a small piece of wood get pulled up by the chain and get stuck up by the primary sprocket, rubs the Chain (was a Dirt Bike).

It wouldn't hurt to pop off the Primary Sprocket Cover, see if anything is in there.

And while in there, slip the chain OFF and spin the Output Shaft/Sprocket,,.. it should turn easy with fingers.

If it doesn't,,..

 

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Ok, so to prove the point that I really do know absolutely nothing, it turns out it was the rear brake! The caliper was working (hence being able to use the brake) but was not fully retracting , causing drag. Oh, and also causing one pad to wear right down and the other to get down to the metal - reckon I used the last smidge parking outside the workshop 🙄  

Was very pleased that the workshop could sort it on the day and was more than happy to give them money in exchange for NOT having to get the train home!

 

Even more embarrassingly,  I now remember that the only time I've had a rear brake bind without any obvious signs (beyond being hard to push) was on my old VFR750FV... 🤣

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  Glad you got away with it Katie.  

Fate, fortune, chance or luck, you got away with it.... again.

 

You have been very fortunate in that nothing further came of it than a premature monetary exchange for a preschedule maintenance job. Lucky again that only the pads needed changing as the lack of material left means your rear brake disc (rotor for you 'mericans) was about to be the sacrificial component. That would have resulted in a much greater hole in your wallet/purse and longer downtime... you surely would have been riding the train home.

 

Although you surely would also have detected louder noises and greater heat being generated.

 

Time to start playing Sudoku or more memory specific exercises, as you say you "really do know absolutely nothing" and yet you had a previous identical experience. Is this premature senility settling in? Too much German beer by that brand name, what's it called again... Alz... Alz... Alzmymemoryfailsme?

 

Fortunately, on the one hand, you got away with it with no skin off. The downside to which is, after two identical experiences in which no physical harm resulted, you may now be lulled into a false sense of security. Yet luck doesn't really exist and eventually the numbers of random chance will work against you, the difference is you. Next time, I urge you Katie, don't tempt fate!!

 

Here's an example for you that I went through:

 

Something over a decade ago I bought an awesome looking silver 1998 (5th gen) VFR800FI secondhand from a dealers, with a 12 month all-inclusive warranty. Sure and soon enough I found myself in the vertiginous labyrinth of intermittent R/R failure. The dealer's said it was just a flat battery and that they'd recharge it. I had recently joined VFRD and a local Spanish forum CLUBVFRSPAIN.es and was in the process of discovering the virtues and defects of this model: the motor is unbreakable, the R/R is as trustworthy as a drug-addicted girlfriend who works street corners on Friday and Saturday nights. Yet I conceded. Next day some 300 km away, same story. Towtruck to dealer´s and discussions with the head mechanic, "no, not just a new battery, a new R/R", I had taken readings with a multimeter and the bike was running off a battery which wasn't receiving any recharge. I assumed from a survey on CLUBVFRSPAIN.es on which models fry R/Rs and which fry Stators that it was the R/R, plus it's a 10 minute, plug'n'play job and an R/R is worth less than some batteries. Nope, they were following the old school protocol; when electrical knowledge is nil, first attempt the cheapest solutions, then according to ease or less workshop hours (and it's true, changing a battery takes less time than changing an R/R). So off I go again, knowing that it was just a matter of time til the battery suffered critical discharge and this time hopefully not far from the dealer's. I was tempted just to swap the R/R out myself and send them the bill. I accepted the new battery, trying to be patient, if you get narky, they get defensive and you get nothing.

 

The unavoidable, highly predictable outcome occurred and back to the dealer's we went. This time I showed him the score with my multimeter. He conceded. "We´ll have the part this AM". I waited. They close for lunch from 14-16:00 h. At 14:15 their runabout arrived on his scooter with a package from the Honda parts outlet. Lo and behold, it was the wrong model R/R. I said I needed the bike and would return after lunch, that I would take my chances and run it off the new battery just a short distance and put it on a tender, don't worry. I went for lunch and at 16:00h I was at Honda's doorstep, said I had come for a 1998 VFR800FI R/R to replace an erroneous one supplied to such and such a dealer's. They recognized the case and gave me the right one. I went outside, took off the rear fairing, replaced the R/R and rode away home.

 

Several days later the dealer's called me asking what had happened. I said I fixed it myself at the Honda outlet. They said they needed the old R/R for their warranty purposes. I said "send a courier to my home address to pick it up".

 

Oh, wrong story sorry... hahaha, we're talking brake failure... thing is, a short time after that phone call, I was riding on a 3-4 lane highway at the stipulated 80 km/h limit when, all of a sudden, the bike started to slow down... and vibrate... at first I noticed some resistance to forward motion and some vibration, I headed towards the outside lane. I rolled off the throttle and found it would slow even more, I attempted to continue forward to an area I could pull off the highway as there was only a very narrow shoulder with guardrails and I could see a decent pull-off area about half a Km ahead. On the right (in Spain). Insisting on the throttle, the bike vibrated even more, more like shuddering. There was no low crunching sound/feeling from the engine, I thought of the electrics again but this wouldn't produce the vibration...  I hoped it wasn't the front brakes or I'd be catapulted off at any moment (all this in what lasted some 20 seconds max), I quickly looked down at the rear wheel on the RHS, smoke billowing out... cars now honking at me. I pull off the highway. Jump off the bike. Put distance between us. Watch the smoke subside and realize it's coming from the rear brake calliper.

 

Called roadside assistance. Towtruck back to the dealer's (oh what joy). The heat generated was enough to melt the rubber o-ring on the pin that holds the brake pads in and cause the billowing smoke. Turns out there was a chunk of rubber from the inside of the brake line blocking the rear M/C. The dealer's had to replace the brake lines of the entire system as the 5th gen's got CBS (combined braking system), the front and rear are connected and act together. They replaced the rear calliper and pads, cleaned out the rear M/C and of course the discs/rotors had warped, all three mind you... so they installed Galfer performance wave rotors, new rubber diaphragms, etc. All free of charge under warranty. I later swapped these rotors onto the 6th gen I bought at a later date. Much better bite than OEM. Needless to say the dealer's lost all the profit margin from the sale, if they ever had any.

 

I had experienced no prior warnings in the form of a hard to manoeuvre bike in the garage or parking lot. Don't ignore the warnings if you're fortunate enough to get them.

 

Long story short, it may just seem like a pain in the ass, but it could be your ass on the line. Live and learn, above all, don't forget to LEARN!!

 

My apologies for the shaggy dog story.

 

Rant over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Auspanglish said:

  Glad you got away with it Katie.

 

Fate, fortune, chance or luck, you got away with it.... again.

 

You have been very fortunate in that nothing further came of it than a premature monetary exchange for a preschedule maintenance job. Lucky again that only the pads needed changing as the lack of material left means your rear brake disc (rotor for you 'mericans) was about to be the sacrificial component. That would have resulted in a much greater hole in your wallet/purse and longer downtime... you surely would have been riding the train home.

 

Although you surely would also have detected louder noises and greater heat being generated.

 

Time to start playing Sudoku or more memory specific exercises, as you say you "really do know absolutely nothing" and yet you had a previous identical experience. Is this premature senility settling in? Too much German beer by that brand name, what's it called again... Alz... Alz... Alzmymemoryfailsme?

 

Fortunately, on the one hand, you got away with it with no skin off. The downside to which is, after two identical experiences in which no physical harm resulted, you may now be lulled into a false sense of security. Yet luck doesn't really exist and eventually the numbers of random chance will work against you, the difference is you. Next time, I urge you Katie, don't tempt fate!!

 

Here's an example for you that I went through:

 

Something over a decade ago I bought an awesome looking silver 1998 (5th gen) VFR800FI secondhand from a dealers, with a 12 month all-inclusive warranty. Sure and soon enough I found myself in the vertiginous labyrinth of intermittent R/R failure. The dealer's said it was just a flat battery and that they'd recharge it. I had recently joined VFRD and a local Spanish forum CLUBVFRSPAIN.es and was in the process of discovering the virtues and defects of this model: the motor is unbreakable, the R/R is as trustworthy as a drug-addicted girlfriend who works street corners on Friday and Saturday nights. Yet I conceded. Next day some 300 km away, same story. Towtruck to dealer´s and discussions with the head mechanic, "no, not just a new battery, a new R/R", I had taken readings with a multimeter and the bike was running off a battery which wasn't receiving any recharge. I assumed from a survey on CLUBVFRSPAIN.es on which models fry R/Rs and which fry Stators that it was the R/R, plus it's a 10 minute, plug'n'play job and an R/R is worth less than some batteries. Nope, they were following the old school protocol; when electrical knowledge is nil, first attempt the cheapest solutions, then according to ease or less workshop hours (and it's true, changing a battery takes less time than changing an R/R). So off I go again, knowing that it was just a matter of time til the battery suffered critical discharge and this time hopefully not far from the dealer's. I was tempted just to swap the R/R out myself and send them the bill. I accepted the new battery, trying to be patient, if you get narky, they get defensive and you get nothing.

 

The unavoidable, highly predictable outcome occurred and back to the dealer's we went. This time I showed him the score with my multimeter. He conceded. "We´ll have the part this AM". I waited. They close for lunch from 14-16:00 h. At 14:15 their runabout arrived on his scooter with a package from the Honda parts outlet. Lo and behold, it was the wrong model R/R. I said I needed the bike and would return after lunch, that I would take my chances and run it off the new battery just a short distance and put it on a tender, don't worry. I went for lunch and at 16:00h I was at Honda's doorstep, said I had come for a 1998 VFR800FI R/R to replace an erroneous one supplied to such and such a dealer's. They recognized the case and gave me the right one. I went outside, took off the rear fairing, replaced the R/R and rode away home.

 

Several days later the dealer's called me asking what had happened. I said I fixed it myself at the Honda outlet. They said they needed the old R/R for their warranty purposes. I said "send a courier to my home address to pick it up".

 

Oh, wrong story sorry... hahaha, we're talking brake failure... thing is, a short time after that phone call, I was riding on a 3-4 lane highway at the stipulated 80 km/h limit when, all of a sudden, the bike started to slow down... and vibrate... at first I noticed some resistance to forward motion and some vibration, I headed towards the outside lane. I rolled off the throttle and found it would slow even more, I attempted to continue forward to an area I could pull off the highway as there was only a very narrow shoulder with guardrails and I could see a decent pull-off area about half a Km ahead. On the right (in Spain). Insisting on the throttle, the bike vibrated even more, more like shuddering. There was no low crunching sound/feeling from the engine, I thought of the electrics again but this wouldn't produce the vibration...  I hoped it wasn't the front brakes or I'd be catapulted off at any moment (all this in what lasted some 20 seconds max), I quickly looked down at the rear wheel on the RHS, smoke billowing out... cars now honking at me. I pull off the highway. Jump off the bike. Put distance between us. Watch the smoke subside and realize it's coming from the rear brake calliper.

 

Called roadside assistance. Towtruck back to the dealer's (oh what joy). The heat generated was enough to melt the rubber o-ring on the pin that holds the brake pads in and cause the billowing smoke. Turns out there was a chunk of rubber from the inside of the brake line blocking the rear M/C. The dealer's had to replace the brake lines of the entire system as the 5th gen's got CBS (combined braking system), the front and rear are connected and act together. They replaced the rear calliper and pads, cleaned out the rear M/C and off course the discs/rotors had warped, all three mind you... so they installed Galfer performance wave rotors, new rubber diaphragms, etc. All free of charge under warranty. I later swapped these rotors onto the 6th gen I bought at a later date. Much better bite than OEM. Needless to say the dealer's lost all the profit margin from the sale, if they ever had any.

 

I had experienced no prior warnings in the form of a hard to manoeuvre bike in the garage or parking lot. Don't ignore the warnings if you're fortunate enough to get them.

 

Long story short, it may just seem like a pain in the ass, but it could be your ass on the line. Live and learn, above all, don't forget to LEARN!!

 

My apologies for the shaggy dog story.

 

Rant over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A simple daily/ weekly pre ride safety check regime should highlight any problems. 

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1 hour ago, fink said:

 

 

A simple daily/ weekly pre ride safety check regime should highlight any problems. 

 

We come from a generation that had to do that just to see if everything was still there 

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4 hours ago, fink said:

 

 

A simple daily/ weekly pre ride safety check regime should highlight any problems. 

 

It´s a recommendable practice and one I adhere to. Yet no amount of pre-ride checks could have detected what happened to me as it developed while on the road.

 

In the case of the OP, The indications were already there and it was more a case of heeding to the warning signs, or not.

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2 hours ago, Thumbs said:

 

We come from a generation that had to do that just to see if everything was still there 

And sometimes it wasn't. 🙂

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Fun stories.

 

Brake drag is a more frequent issue than some folks think.  You just don't notice it until it gets REALLY bad, usually.

 

Pen-style IR thermometers can be had super cheap   I received this one as a gift but others can be had for as little as $10  They can be useful for spot-checking calipers and rotors after a ride.  Up front, check left vs right.  Then for the back compare to front after stopping using mostly the motor and a little front brake.

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17 hours ago, Thumbs said:

 

We come from a generation that had to do that just to see if everything was still there 

 

And now we're the generation that has to do exactly that to ourselves every morning as soon as we get out of bed, and for exactly the same reason.

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18 hours ago, Rectaltronics said:

Fun stories.

 

Brake drag is a more frequent issue than some folks think.  You just don't notice it until it gets REALLY bad, usually.

 

Pen-style IR thermometers can be had super cheap   I received this one as a gift but others can be had for as little as $10  They can be useful for spot-checking calipers and rotors after a ride.  Up front, check left vs right.  Then for the back compare to front after stopping using mostly the motor and a little front brake.

 

Agreed.  Best tool for the job is a fingertip. Just make sure the disc isn't too hot.     I confess, I did the finger test one day at a Donnington park, Track day chasing big bikes on my F3, came in and looked at the discs thinking they looked a bit blue. I wonder how hot that is? The brain made the calculation in a nano second,  but the body said fuck it lets test. Que standing with finger in cold water for 20 mins and a big blister.  EEJIT...…………….

 

A hand close to the disc to start will tell. Then a finger wet with spit. 

 

Its amazing how many folk can butt Dyno a 2-5 Hp gain, but not a loss from a dragging brake system. 😂 

 

 

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5 hours ago, fink said:

 

Agreed.  Best tool for the job is a fingertip. Just make sure the disc isn't too hot.     I confess, I did the finger test one day at a Donnington park, Track day chasing big bikes on my F3, came in and looked at the discs thinking they looked a bit blue. I wonder how hot that is? The brain made the calculation in a nano second,  but the body said fuck it lets test. Que standing with finger in cold water for 20 mins and a big blister.  EEJIT...…………….

 

A hand close to the disc to start will tell. Then a finger wet with spit. 

 

Its amazing how many folk can butt Dyno a 2-5 Hp gain, but not a loss from a dragging brake system. 😂 

 

 

 

 

That's the disc test I went with (minus the blisters!) and all was fine. Still think it's a bit bizarre...

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