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Installed a lithium battery - cut 5.7 pounds


GatorGreg

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Personally I think if the VFR elves came out and replaced your old Yuasa with the new Lithium battery overnight without

your knowledge, you'd not notice any difference. I think you're were expecting to feel a difference and you did, a self-fulfilling

prophecy. Kind of like when you add a fuel mileage gadget and lo and behold your fuel mileage goes up.

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Approx 2.5Kg is a noticeable weight. Try carrying that for a few minutes ! Every time you accelerate, corner or brake it will have an effect, on mileage, grip & tyre wear. I’ve removed 35Kg from my 5th gen, a third of that is from the wheels & drive train, it’s very noticible 😎👍

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PS don’t use Lithium batteries, use LiFe ones a smidge heavier, but they don’t catch fire or explode ! Also very tolerant of charging conditions, so will charge on the bike fine. LiFe cells are 3.7volts each, sofour of them gives 14.8v which is just a smidge more than the stock charging systems 14,5v nominal charge voltage.I’ve used them for years with no grief.

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4 hours ago, Mohawk said:

PS don’t use Lithium batteries, use LiFe ones a smidge heavier, but they don’t catch fire or explode ! Also very tolerant of charging conditions, so will charge on the bike fine. LiFe cells are 3.7volts each, sofour of them gives 14.8v which is just a smidge more than the stock charging systems 14,5v nominal charge voltage.I’ve used them for years with no grief.

 

The Shorai I got says it's a "Lithium Iron" battery - does that mean I don't have to worry about it catching fire / exploding?

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Approx 2.5Kg is a noticeable weight. Try carrying that for a few minutes ! Every time you accelerate, corner or brake it will have an effect, on mileage, grip & tyre wear. I’ve removed 35Kg from my 5th gen, a third of that is from the wheels & drive train, it’s very noticible 😎👍

 

Agreed.  Those who claim otherwise have been unwilling or unable, at least thus far, to provide us with the minimum number of pounds that must be shed from a VFR to be noticeable in their opinion.  And yet they are more than willing to opine that 5.7 pounds is not noticeable 😀

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9 hours ago, FJ12Ryder said:

Personally I think if the VFR elves came out and replaced your old Yuasa with the new Lithium battery overnight without

your knowledge, you'd not notice any difference. I think you're were expecting to feel a difference and you did, a self-fulfilling prophecy. Kind of like when you add a fuel mileage gadget and lo and behold your fuel mileage goes up.

 

If 5.7 pounds cut from a VFR is not noticeable in your opinion, I'm curious to know what minimum number of pounds is noticeable in your opinion.  I'd genuinely like someone to give me an actual number - not a bunch of mumbo jumbo as seen on page 1 of this thread 😀

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9 hours ago, Auspanglish said:

I'll summarize:

GFY!!

 

I just noticed your sig says you've sold both your VFRs and you're left with an old Triumph - no wonder you're such a grouch! 😀

 

You have my condolences - seriously.

 

130704042206-sesame-street-muppet-oscar-

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Are you trolling Greg?  I mean, this is an awfully contentious thread for "I put in a different kind of battery." Do you really care?

 

And for "flickable" and weigh, compare apples to apples.   Five pounds and change is less than a gallon of gas (which is a touch over 6 lbs per gallon) and your fuel tank is a little farther away from the center of mass than your battery compartment. So a 5.5lb weight change is like burning what -- half a gallon of fuel? Maybe 3/4 of a gallon?  So the flickability index with the new battery should be about the same difference as riding 25-30 miles after topping the bike up at the service station.

 

Personally, I don't feel a gallon of gas on my bike. I do feel a difference when the tank is 4.5 gallons down and I top it up, so somewhere between 6lbs and 25lbs (located up high, away from the center of mass) is where the weight difference line is to me, though the difference still isn't really enough to actually matter on the street. You can do the same calculation yourself, just ride until you're at half a tank, say,  then add a gallon of gas and you can instantly go throw the bike around and then see if it matters to you.

 

All that said, I don't know why it does. If you're having fun riding the thing, for whatever reason, just ride it. You don't race. Microseconds don't matter on the street. Hell, you live in Florida where the roads are flat and straight in most places and you are definitely not an aggressive rider judging by your videos. The only thing that should matter to you is if you're happy with the bike and it is working for you. If five pounds of battery weight makes you happy, the psychological component of expected results vs. actual physics that went into it is moot. You're happy with the change.

 

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37 minutes ago, MooseMoose said:

Are you trolling Greg?  I mean, this is an awfully contentious thread for "I put in a different kind of battery." Do you really care?

 

And for "flickable" and weigh, compare apples to apples.   Five pounds and change is less than a gallon of gas (which is a touch over 6 lbs per gallon) and your fuel tank is a little farther away from the center of mass than your battery compartment. So a 5.5lb weight change is like burning what -- half a gallon of fuel? Maybe 3/4 of a gallon?  So the flickability index with the new battery should be about the same difference as riding 25-30 miles after topping the bike up at the service station.

 

Personally, I don't feel a gallon of gas on my bike. I do feel a difference when the tank is 4.5 gallons down and I top it up, so somewhere between 6lbs and 25lbs (located up high, away from the center of mass) is where the weight difference line is to me, though the difference still isn't really enough to actually matter on the street. You can do the same calculation yourself, just ride until you're at half a tank, say,  then add a gallon of gas and you can instantly go throw the bike around and then see if it matters to you.

 

All that said, I don't know why it does. If you're having fun riding the thing, for whatever reason, just ride it. You don't race. Microseconds don't matter on the street. Hell, you live in Florida where the roads are flat and straight in most places and you are definitely not an aggressive rider judging by your videos. The only thing that should matter to you is if you're happy with the bike and it is working for you. If five pounds of battery weight makes you happy, the psychological component of expected results vs. actual physics that went into it is moot. You're happy with the change.

 

 

Yes - I'm very happy with the new battery.  In fact, the first two words of my original post were "I'm happy..."  I'm actually elated with how well my VFR performed today.  The only one who appears to be unhappy in this thread (understandably so) is the gentleman who sold both his VFRs.  Hopefully he will get another VFR one day.  In the meantime I shall dedicate this song to him 😀

:

 

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You really are your own worst enemy Gator. You have an overwhelming desire to be right, always, and will ridicule anyone who disagrees. 

You have been given a scientific explanation for humans ability to notice weight changes, yet you ridicule that, simply because you feel the need to justify your opinion and your decision to install a Lithium battery.

Why do you feel the need to post every tiny thing you do to your bike, and then attack anyone who has a different opinion to yours?

 

Quite frankly, for the type of riding you do, there is no way that battery makes an iota of difference.

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19 hours ago, GatorGreg said:

 

How much total weight have you cut?  IIRC the 5th gen weighs 499 wet?

Down to about 400lbs

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All this from someone who rides with flip flops.

 

Not even capable of calculating that golden figure he thinks WE ought to provide him with, using the information already provided.

 

The guy who created the click bait thread about overtaking on the wrong side of a trailer into a gap you could drive an Airbus through and exaggerated how close a call it was while blaming everyone but himself.

 

Stick your battery where it fits!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, GatorGreg said:

 

The only one who appears to be unhappy in this thread (understandably so) is the gentleman who sold both his VFRs.  

 

Not so, I enjoy this site for the knowledge and shared experience that fellow riders have of their VFRs but what I am reading here makes zero sense whatsoever. Despite references to valid and detailed medical research that indicate that the level of weight loss to your bike  is not something that a human is capable of determining, you continue to assert that it is true. It almost feels like you are covering you ears with your hands and going "la, la, la". IMHO, this kind of behaviour stopped when I was an infant.

 

If I was to post that I had removed a couple of the plastic fasteners from the fairing on my bike and suggested that the bike had been transformed as a result into a flick-able sports bike equivalent, would it be down to everyone else to disprove this or would it be down to me to lay down some SOLID evidence, much more than "I feel it" that the shedding of a few grammes makes all the difference. If I then went on to state that if you tried it and didn't feel it, like the evidence of how our bodies work would suggest, then I could simply dismiss you as not being "in touch with your bike" and because I feel it, it is true.

 

Opinions are one thing, but as I have read on many an occasion when a top flight racer comes into the pits complaining that the front end (or some such part) is washing out and can the mechanics sort the setup. They then simply go through the motions without actually changing anything and send the rider back out. His response, "It is so much more planted, I have full confidence in it now". The lesson, the mind is our worst enemy, if you are looking for a particular response, it is more than happy to deliver that back to you.

 

If this topic was taking the path of, "I know it makes no sense and defies all logic and laws of physics, but why do I feel that it makes a difference" then this topic would have a completely different flavour. My suspicion is that the answer to that question is that having overpaid, compared to a standard battery, for a expensive lithium battery then it suggests that you can't acknowledge that you have made a mistake and will defend that position ad infinitum.

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35 Kg would be quite noticeable.

 

The suggestion of "carrying" 2.5 Kg not being analogous to the model or case at hand, may be noticeable in tyre wear and fuel economy, yet these are not human sensory systems. Carrying where? As already corroborated, the fulcrum principle, i.e. distance from centre of gravity will affect JND.

 

Full tank to empty tank, some 21 Kg difference, may well be noticeable through the limited optimal operational range of the suspension components and the resultant change in behaviour... and the lever principle mentioned by another forum member, as it's relatively well removed from the COG, which amplifies its effect, as if it gained mass. That's almost 10%; a scientifically accepted figure via rigorous repeated tests involving thousands of subjects over many decades, as being noticeable.

 

1% at the centre of gravity (COG) of a motorcycle is not humanly detectable.

 

Not my opinion Gator.

Demonstrable science.

 

Sure, forget about science and repeated objective measurements. Convince yourself you're not convincing yourself and you won't be. 

 

I love the folk who say they put an unrestricted muffler and a K&N filter on the bike and could feel the extra horse power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Approx 2.5Kg is a noticeable weight. Try carrying that for a few minutes ! Every time you accelerate, corner or brake it will have an effect, on mileage, grip & tyre wear. I’ve removed 35Kg from my 5th gen, a third of that is from the wheels & drive train, it’s very noticible

    

 

 

 

 

 

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Have to say I doubt I would notice any difference.

 

For example I usually ride with the top box on so am pretty used to it.  If I take it off then I notice the difference.

 

However If I haven't been out on the bike for some time and go out without the top box then I wouldn't notice any difference.

 

Make sense ?

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11 hours ago, GatorGreg said:

 

The Shorai I got says it's a "Lithium Iron" battery - does that mean I don't have to worry about it catching fire / exploding?

 

 

 

You have a lithium-iron phosphate battery, LiFePO4 (or LFX).  Much more stable than earlier/other versions of lithium batteries.  I have the same in my VFR, since 8/2013, no problems.  I have LiFePO4 batts in my Aprilia and R6 as well, again, no problems.

 

ACE

 

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5 minutes ago, carlgustav said:

You have a lithium-iron phosphate battery, LiFePO4 (or LFX).  Much more stable than earlier/other versions of lithium batteries.  I have the same in my VFR, since 8/2013, no problems.  I have LiFePO4 batts in my Aprilia and R6 as well, again, no problems.

 

ACE

 

 

That’s great news - Urbanengineer’s post had me worried 😀

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On 9/29/2018 at 12:45 PM, thtanner said:

"feels noticeably more flickable/tossable" It's all in your head, as you state. This is why butt dynos are worthless.

Why you would spend money on that battery if yours was in good shape is kinda beyond me. 

 

The more I read your posts I think you'd have been happier on a CBR, personally.

 

Butt dynos are sneaky - if you do something that trashes midrange power and adds a half a horsepower at the top end, your butt will be tangibly impressed.

 

I can save over sixteen pounds by leaving the tank half-empty.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Rectaltronics said:

 

I can save over sixteen pounds by leaving the tank half-empty.

 

 

 

True, but you can do the same with a lithium battery and save 21.7 pounds (16 + 5.7) 😀

 

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Yes - I'm very happy with the new battery.  In fact, the first two words of my original post were "I'm happy..."  I'm actually elated with how well my VFR performed today.  The only one who appears to be unhappy in this thread (understandably so) is the gentleman who sold both his VFRs.  Hopefully he will get another VFR one day.  In the meantime I shall dedicate this song to him 

 

 

Dude, you are trolling. I'd greatly appreciate it if you did not, and especially if you do not include me in your attempts to anger others.  I tried to give you a gracious way out, so you could just say "I'm happy" and move on, so nobody would have to point out the obvious to you in terms that might be blunt or hurtful. Instead you used it to lash out again, so I'm done spreading oil on troubled waters.

 

Read the room.  Many people are unhappy, not just the first guy you've decided to pick a fight with.  Me included, as this kind of cantankerous bullshit is the main reason I don't post on forums much unless I'm desperately looking for help and, frankly, it destroys what should be a pretty strong sense of community. This isn't the reddit or facebook, and you're not talking to anonymous random idiots. This is a small, insular community filled with real people, many of whom have vast knowledge and remarkable experience with the motorcycles in question. Maybe you think what you're doing is good natured banter, but from my perspective you're coming off ugly and petty.

 

And if you really care, then do yourself a favor. Go out and try my little add a few quarts of gas experiment. Then immediately go out and "flick" the bike and try hard to perceive the difference. You may or my not. Just do it for your own edification.

 

Then don't bother to tell any of us about it. If you feel it know you're right. If you don't, know maybe you aren't. But either way, keep it to yourself. It's your little victory to celebrate, or your little defeat that, since nobody knows, won't cause you the least moment of shame. But, seriously, don't tell us.

 

We will be skeptical, not because 5lbs isn't enough that it might be an interesting  part of a larger program of weight reduction, and not because nobody has wondered about lithium batteries, but because perception and expectation are remarkably complex things. We will be skeptical  because everyone's perception is skewed (perception being a very interesting topic) and, frankly, we have a sense of you. We've read your posts, seen your vlog, and understand your experience with the motorcycle and riding and we each weigh that against our own and --    I'm saying this as gently as I can -- you don't seem to have the constitution to accept the fact that your perception isn't going to be perfect on something like this, nor engage with critical ideas about the fact civilly.

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3 hours ago, MooseMoose said:

 

 

Dude, you are trolling. I'd greatly appreciate it if you did not, and especially if you do not include me in your attempts to anger others.  I tried to give you a gracious way out, so you could just say "I'm happy" and move on, so nobody would have to point out the obvious to you in terms that might be blunt or hurtful. Instead you used it to lash out again, so I'm done spreading oil on troubled waters.

 

Read the room.  Many people are unhappy, not just the first guy you've decided to pick a fight with.  Me included, as this kind of cantankerous bullshit is the main reason I don't post on forums much unless I'm desperately looking for help and, frankly, it destroys what should be a pretty strong sense of community. This isn't the reddit or facebook, and you're not talking to anonymous random idiots. This is a small, insular community filled with real people, many of whom have vast knowledge and remarkable experience with the motorcycles in question. Maybe you think what you're doing is good natured banter, but from my perspective you're coming off ugly and petty.

 

And if you really care, then do yourself a favor. Go out and try my little add a few quarts of gas experiment. Then immediately go out and "flick" the bike and try hard to perceive the difference. You may or my not. Just do it for your own edification.

 

Then don't bother to tell any of us about it. If you feel it know you're right. If you don't, know maybe you aren't. But either way, keep it to yourself. It's your little victory to celebrate, or your little defeat that, since nobody knows, won't cause you the least moment of shame. But, seriously, don't tell us.

 

We will be skeptical, not because 5lbs isn't enough that it might be an interesting  part of a larger program of weight reduction, and not because nobody has wondered about lithium batteries, but because perception and expectation are remarkably complex things. We will be skeptical  because everyone's perception is skewed (perception being a very interesting topic) and, frankly, we have a sense of you. We've read your posts, seen your vlog, and understand your experience with the motorcycle and riding and we each weigh that against our own and --    I'm saying this as gently as I can -- you don't seem to have the constitution to accept the fact that your perception isn't going to be perfect on something like this, nor engage with critical ideas about the fact civilly.

 

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