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1995 Honda VFR750 Starting Issues - Need Help Please!


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Hello,

I'm having a real hard time diagnosing a starting problem on my 1995 Honda VFR750.  For background, I've replaced the starter solinoid with OEM part, replaced the starter with a known good starter, and rebuilt the starter clutch.  Every time I think I've fixed the problem (which I've done about 4 times now, draining the oil, taking the side cover off, making a new gasket, etc.), it will start again and I think it's solved.  Only to eventually do it again.  When it does this, it makes a repeated 'click' sound rapidly and then when I try it again, just a 'click'.  I can keep hitting the starter button with this 'click' each time and eventually it will turn over and start.  I video recorded with my phone last time and have attempted to include a link to the video on Flickr.  Any help solving this would be greatly appreciated!

 

The first video is attempting to start the bike and it eventually starts.  The second video is turning it off, and it restarts, turn off and it restarts.  What the heck, driving me crazy!  Now I'm scared to go anywhere not knowing if it's going to do this or not.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/159039020@N02/shares/t1qyDU

 

Thanks!

Chuck

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Put it next to your car and run  jump leads from your car's battery to your beautiful red NACA. Just to rule out your battery is duff.

 

Did you buy a new starter solenoid or a second hand. If the latter, I will gladly send you redslut's (one of of the very last bits I have of her will go to a good home then) :fing02:

 

 

 

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One item to maybe check are grounds - the main battery negative to the frame is the return for the starter circuit.  I'm a fan of Oxgard on all connections, not only curing oxidation but it's also a conductive paste.  Another thing to check might be the relay - when it's doing this, taking a small tool of some sort and tapping on the relay can sometimes dislodge the switch and make it work.  Since the hard parts are known good, it would seem to be a current flow issue - somewhere there's a connection that's not up to par - I think there's a good chance that  once located that will sort the issue.

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Thanks for the replys guys!

 

Dutchy, I bought a new OEM starter solenoid maybe a year or two ago.  I say its 'new', in comparison to the bike it is!  What happened to your bike?!!!  Redslut was an institution here!  Been a while since I've been on the forum.  I'll be glad to pay you for yours if you know its good, would be worth a try to rule it out.

 

Cogswell, where is this relay you are suggesting that I tap on?

 

Cogswell, Squirrlman, will check the negative lead to make sure it's grounded properly.

 

Thanks again,

Chuck

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1 hour ago, Chuckster said:

 

Cogswell, where is this relay you are suggesting that I tap on?

 

Hope you can forgive me a foggy memory - it's been nearly 2 decades since I owned my 4th gen . . . The FSM I have for it shows a diagram of a 3rd gen, but I believe most gens have the same or very similar setup.  The diagram shows it to be directly in front of the battery under the seat, co-located with the main 30A fuse.  That's the same setup as on my 6th gen.  I'd also pull the fuse and inspect for fuzzy looking terminals or evidence of overheated connectors.  The battery main ground are two dis-simlar metals - an aluminum frame and a steel bolt - that's a recipe for corrosion.  Do a search on "Galvanic corrosion" for more info. 

 

Don't forget that there are other switches involved in allowing the starter motor to turn - the side stand switch, neutral switch, clutch switch, kill switch - a fault in any of those could affect starting.  In your video though it appears that you're attempting to start in neutral with (presumably) the side stand up as it's on the c-stand which could rule some of those out, though hard telling if there's a fault in one of them.  There is a trouble shooting chart for the starter in the FSM - if you don't have one  I believe there's a free copy for download in the downloads section.  You'll find the starter circuit diagram on page 17-3 and the 4th gen troubleshooting chart on 17-5.  If you're unable to download it I can probably take a pic of the pages and PM them to you.  If it were mine, I'd probably get some spray contact cleaner and a tube of Oxgard (available at Ace Hardware stores and possibly Home Depot) and methodically go through all the aforementioned switches and their related connectors - spraying the switches with contact cleaner (I've seen a 4th gen no-start fixed with contact cleaner sprayed in the kill switch) and treating all connector pins and grounds with Oxgard.  Even if that doesn't correct it, it's good maintenance.   A battery load test would also be a good idea to be sure that it can supply adequate current to turn the starter - any Autozone or Batteries Plus will do that for free. 

 

 

 

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Hi Chuck. 

This might sound a bit radical, but you could drag a car battery ( or remove and use the bikes battery if it's healthy) near to your bike, disconnect the bikes heavy leads to the starter, then attach the car battery via jumper leads to the starter. Momentarily make the connection a few times to confirm the stater system cranks the bike every time. That would confirm your starter and clutch are ok.

Also agree with suggestions of checking the main ground and positive from the starter solenoid are both well connected at both ends.

Good luck.

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8 hours ago, Cogswell said:

Don't forget that there are other switches involved in allowing the starter motor to turn - the side stand switch, neutral switch, clutch switch, kill switch - a fault in any of those could affect starting.  In your video though it appears that you're attempting to start in neutral with (presumably) the side stand up as it's on the c-stand which could rule some of those out, though hard telling if there's a fault in one of them.  There is a trouble shooting chart for the starter in the FSM - if you don't have one  I believe there's a free copy for download in the downloads section.  You'll find the starter circuit diagram on page 17-3 and the 4th gen troubleshooting chart on 17-5.

 

Hi Cogswell.

 I had a similar thought regarding the other starting interlocks until I saw Chuck's video. To me it appears I'm hearing the Starter Relay/solenoid pull in every time he hits the start button, just his starter motor doesn't fire up! If the Starter Relay is pulling in every time then that would isolate, the kill switch, neutral switch, and clutch diode. 

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Can check for voltage drops from negative of battery and starter motor case then positive of battery and positive of starter motor and between positive to negative of battery when you are trying to crank it. This will tell you where to look for an electrical fault if its in the battery or high current leads.

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11 hours ago, Chuckster said:

 What happened to your bike?!!!  Redslut was an institution here!  

 

Thanks again,

Chuck

 

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6 hours ago, Grum said:

Hi Chuck. 

This might sound a bit radical, but you could drag a car battery ( or remove and use the bikes battery if it's healthy) near to your bike, disconnect the bikes heavy leads to the starter, then attach the car battery via jumper leads to the starter. Momentarily make the connection a few times to confirm the stater system cranks the bike every time. That would confirm your starter and clutch are ok.

Also agree with suggestions of checking the main ground and positive from the starter solenoid are both well connected at both ends.

Good luck.

Isn’t a car (in my case Dodge Ram) battery too strong for my bike?  Don’t want to fry anything.

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4 hours ago, Zarquon said:

Can check for voltage drops from negative of battery and starter motor case then positive of battery and positive of starter motor and between positive to negative of battery when you are trying to crank it. This will tell you where to look for an electrical fault if its in the battery or high current leads.

I have a digital volt meter on the bike.  What should it read as I’m hitting the starter?

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1 hour ago, Chuckster said:

Isn’t a car (in my case Dodge Ram) battery too strong for my bike?  Don’t want to fry anything.

 

 

Unless your gas guzzler (that behemoth ain't a car :tongue:) runs on 24V, you should be fine if it is a 12V battery.  The amp rating just tells you how many attempt you can do...

 

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6 hours ago, Chuckster said:

I have a digital volt meter on the bike.  What should it read as I’m hitting the starter?

 

When I had a bike battery load tested at Batteries Plus, they told me they were looking for it to hold around 10.5 volts while drawing similar amperage as the starter.  That will only happen while the starter is turning - not clicking as in the videos.

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8 hours ago, Chuckster said:

I have a digital volt meter on the bike.  What should it read as I’m hitting the starter?

My gen 5 drops to 10.8V if I need to crank it alot and will still start the bike I usually see it go to 11.2 or 11.4 I need to double check this (my battery is tired and cranking with low voltage eventually hurts the starter motor brushes). I carry a lithium jump start booster battery that doubles as a usb power supply. This will start the bike with a flat battery.

 

To check for voltage drops in your bike starter wiring you will need a multimeter set to dc volts. Connect one lead to the +ve lug on the battery and the other to the positive lug on you starter motor. Then crank the motor. A reading of more than about +/-0.5volts on the meter when cranking generally implies excessive resistance in the circuit... you have a bad connection somewhere in the positive lead. Repeat the test connecting the multimeter between the -ve lug on the battery and the casing of the starter motor to check the -ve circuit .

 

Hope this explains it for you, good luck.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Dutchy said:

 

 

Unless your gas guzzler (that behemoth ain't a car :tongue:) runs on 24V, you should be fine if it is a 12V battery.  The amp rating just tells you how many attempt you can do...

 

Got it, thanks!

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9 hours ago, Cogswell said:

 

When I had a bike battery load tested at Batteries Plus, they told me they were looking for it to hold around 10.5 volts while drawing similar amperage as the starter.  That will only happen while the starter is turning - not clicking as in the videos.

Thanks!  Also, I picked up a tube of 'Ox-Gard' as suggested.

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7 hours ago, Zarquon said:

My gen 5 drops to 10.8V if I need to crank it alot and will still start the bike I usually see it go to 11.2 or 11.4 I need to double check this (my battery is tired and cranking with low voltage eventually hurts the starter motor brushes). I carry a lithium jump start booster battery that doubles as a usb power supply. This will start the bike with a flat battery.

 

To check for voltage drops in your bike starter wiring you will need a multimeter set to dc volts. Connect one lead to the +ve lug on the battery and the other to the positive lug on you starter motor. Then crank the motor. A reading of more than about +/-0.5volts on the meter when cranking generally implies excessive resistance in the circuit... you have a bad connection somewhere in the positive lead. Repeat the test connecting the multimeter between the -ve lug on the battery and the casing of the starter motor to check the -ve circuit .

 

Hope this explains it for you, good luck.

 

 

Awesome, thanks for the explanation on these!

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