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Please help me fix my overheating.


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Ive really, really tried looking everywhere for advice on what to do with my troublesome VFR, but I am getting really, really frustrated. 

 

Bike keeps overheating when ridden hard. I replaced all of the coolant hoses (mostly silicone, some OEM), the t-stat with an OEM replacement, and a new rad cap. 

 

I pressure tested the system at 16 PSI for 20 minutes and it didn’t drop an inch of pressure over that period. It holds pressure fine. It just won’t stop over heating....

 

whats wrong? Can the VFR not be ridden mostly in VTEC and enjoyed? Is the stock tuning with the Staintunes exhaust really so horrible I’m running Crazy lean and overheating? 

 

I just put in some “Thermocure” anti rust/corrosion cleaner with distilled water in attempt to rip off some unseen rust/corrosion but it didn’t seem to do anything. I put coolant to the min line, went out for a test ride, and when I got back in from the 20 minute test ride the coolant bottle was overflowing with water/cleaner mix. 

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If that says 244 (hard to read through the glare) that is pretty darn high.  In July we were blasting across Wyoming at 85+ mph in 95 deg temps and I was seeing 236.  It took me a while to remember that I have a fan override switch and that even at speed, at that temp the fan is running, stalling the airflow over the left rad.  Once I turned the fan off, over a few minutes the temp dropped to about 219.  That would be one idea - get control over the fan so it's on only when needed.  The only other thing coming to mind is to ask if the cooling system purge was done on the side stand so the rad cap is the highest point in the system - otherwise some air will get trapped decreasing overall cooling capacity.  If you want specifics on the switch, PM me.   Hope that helps. 

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Crazier things have happened, maybe the PO poured the little foil seal from an antifreeze container in accidentally and you have a flow issue.

 

Why not try running it without the thermostat just to check if there’s any difference in temp rates or maxes. Not even sure if you could do that, I know I could on my ‘67 Chevelle. 

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If you were just running cleaner and water, it will overheat.

Are you using 50/50 distilled water and coolant concentrate? Nothing else should be used.

Are all the fairings and panels installed? Air flow will not go through radiators without them.

Have you opened the water pump to look inside? Make sure you have a new seal ready if you do.

There is a problem somewhere if it's overheating when ridden hard.

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Hi Urban.

I take my hat off to you for your persistence, and can understand your frustration. 

Hope I'm not stating the obvious here but considering how marginal even a healthy cooling system is on the VFR, have you confirmed that all the radiator cores on both of them are completely clear, after all, you did identify rust in the system, serious blockages might not be shifted by flushing agents. You've just about covered everything, as Cogswell stated make sure you really get all the air purged from the system. Would it be worth hooking your bike up to an exhaust gas anyliser just to see if you are running lean?

I've done a few track days myself but can't recall ever having any overheating issues. My 2007 RWB had Staintune exhausts similar to your's and did a couple of track days at Phillip Island with it, no issues.

Good Luck

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When you pressurised your system, did you wiggle each hose connection? When I fitted my Samco hoses I could smell coolant even after pressure testing. I then tried again and wiggled the connection, whilst pressurised and not dropping pressure after 10 mins,  and found three that shot fluid out. Had to tighten the clamps further. Still smell coolant every so often so I know a connection has come loose. I think it is the problem with silicon hoses from doing some research on the web. 

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6 hours ago, VARIABLE9 said:

Looks like I bought a product strictly for rust removal, but I wonder if I have corrosion damage to?

 

Here is an MSDS on the product I currently run... turns out it’s mostly water: https://www.evapo-rust.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Evapo-Rust-Safety-Data-Sheet-2015.pdf

 

I like that second link. Perhaps I’ll try and find the stuff that isn’t for rust removal and go from there. 

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Looks like my big reply went away 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️ .

 

I tightened all hose clamps with a 6mm socket and socket wrench, they aren’t loose. 

 

A friend recommended replacing the line from the overflow container to the top of the right rad. Also burping air by fan switch by loosening/tightening the fan switch.  

 

I cant Find a local dyno tuner, closest one to have a wide band fuel ratio tester is over an hour away. 

 

As for running this cleaner and overheating... well it’s 87% water, mixed with distilled water (rust destroyer). Track guys run 100% distilled water all summer and never have issues. Not sure why that would be an issue for over heating.  

 

For air bleeding i leaned the bike all the way to the footpeg on each side while stationary. 

 

It seemed like as I rode the bike it slowly filled up the rad overflow container, but fluid never went back into the rads, what gives?

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50 minutes ago, Urbanengineer said:

Looks like my big reply went away 🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️ .

 

I tightened all hose clamps with a 6mm socket and socket wrench, they aren’t loose. 

 

A friend recommended replacing the line from the overflow container to the top of the right rad. Also burping air by fan switch by loosening/tightening the fan switch.  

 

I cant Find a local dyno tuner, closest one to have a wide band fuel ratio tester is over an hour away. 

 

As for running this cleaner and overheating... well it’s 87% water, mixed with distilled water (rust destroyer). Track guys run 100% distilled water all summer and never have issues. Not sure why that would be an issue for over heating.  

 

For air bleeding i leaned the bike all the way to the footpeg on each side while stationary. 

 

It seemed like as I rode the bike it slowly filled up the rad overflow container, but fluid never went back into the rads, what gives?

My little foil thingy blockage conspiracy theory might just have some legs...

 

I’m far from an expert, but it sounds like coolant isn’t moving. The rust and scale issue is certainly one thing, however neither that or the silicone hoses (possible pressure leak) seems like by themselves would result in such high temps. 

 

The suggestion above about about having a radiator shop test each radiator off the bike sounds like a good idea.

 

Good luck!

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Also you may have dislodged a big piece of rust or scale during the cleaning process, now it’s flowed and blocked a passage. Just another thought. 

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Just some tips...

 

Check your radiator cap isn't stuffed. Might be letting the coolant boil out of the system with lack of pressure. Hence poor cooling and radiator overflow. A pressurized system has a higher boiling point and contains the coolant.

 

Also your bike and its cooling system is aluminium not iron (which rusts) so take care of what you put in it! Use products designed for aluminium.

 

Old coolant can degrade and form scale in the cooling system and reduce heat transfer in the system perhaps a descaling product is what you need. 

 

The coolant to water ratio is important for efficient operation of the cooling system.

 

Good luck

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Just a stretch, but have you done a leak down test? Unlikely, but possible that you may have a marginal head gasket and it's allowing the running engine to leak into the cooling system. It may only deform a bit when the engine is hot. Of course you should be seeing some oil sheen in the coolant if it were happening, but I thought I would just throw it out there.

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Just thought of something else, only good if you can ensure coolant actually flowing though. 

 

Almost all all the reviews of ThermoCure I’ve read have the product being left in to circulate for hours to days, not just a flush. The old Prestone two part flushes often stayed in overnight iirc. 

 

I guess my my point is from my speculation that you dislodged something and have a blocked passage. 

 

Some guys even seem to just have run straight EvapoRust versus using the TC product. 

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2 hours ago, VARIABLE9 said:

Just thought of something else, only good if you can ensure coolant actually flowing though. 

 

Almost all all the reviews of ThermoCure I’ve read have the product being left in to circulate for hours to days, not just a flush. The old Prestone two part flushes often stayed in overnight iirc. 

 

I guess my my point is from my speculation that you dislodged something and have a blocked passage. 

 

Some guys even seem to just have run straight EvapoRust versus using the TC product. 

A blocked rad would make sense. Temps are going crazy. 

4 hours ago, FJ12Ryder said:

Just a stretch, but have you done a leak down test? Unlikely, but possible that you may have a marginal head gasket and it's allowing the running engine to leak into the cooling system. It may only deform a bit when the engine is hot. Of course you should be seeing some oil sheen in the coolant if it were happening, but I thought I would just throw it out there.

No water in oil or oil in water yet. So I think I’m good there. Holds 15 psi for 20 minutes. 

5 hours ago, Zarquon said:

Just some tips...

 

Check your radiator cap isn't stuffed. Might be letting the coolant boil out of the system with lack of pressure. Hence poor cooling and radiator overflow. A pressurized system has a higher boiling point and contains the coolant.

 

Also your bike and its cooling system is aluminium not iron (which rusts) so take care of what you put in it! Use products designed for aluminium.

 

Old coolant can degrade and form scale in the cooling system and reduce heat transfer in the system perhaps a descaling product is what you need. 

 

The coolant to water ratio is important for efficient operation of the cooling system.

 

Good luck

Others are saying now I have a blocked passage which could make sense. I have a new rad cap. I can swap in coolant but I was having this issue with engine ice too, which is the go to for track bikes that see street use. 

6 hours ago, VARIABLE9 said:

Also you may have dislodged a big piece of rust or scale during the cleaning process, now it’s flowed and blocked a passage. Just another thought. 

I would agree this makes sense.  The fan can’t even see any flow anymore perhaps too?

6 hours ago, VARIABLE9 said:

My little foil thingy blockage conspiracy theory might just have some legs...

 

I’m far from an expert, but it sounds like coolant isn’t moving. The rust and scale issue is certainly one thing, however neither that or the silicone hoses (possible pressure leak) seems like by themselves would result in such high temps. 

 

The suggestion above about about having a radiator shop test each radiator off the bike sounds like a good idea.

 

Good luck!

Fair enough I’ll have a shop test them. I’ll have to call around.  

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As VFROZ mentioned, time to have a good inspection of your water pump. If the system is aluminium then where has the rust come from?

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The only thing iron in the system would be the impeller of the water pump, the thermostat itself, and a couple of hose spouts for the radiator hose to push on to (wax unit and top hose from water pump to thermostat housing spouts). Everything else is either aluminium (engine, radiators), brass (thermostat switch for fan, temp sensor for ecu/temp display), plastic (filler neck, y piece for radiator to pump join) or rubber (hoses).

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I recall reading one post years back where the water-pump drive had failed. I know on my 5G it is not major engine surgery to pull the pump off the motor, I even left the hoses connected. If you pulled an adjacent hose off with the pump connected you may be able to see the impeller and check it is spinning with the starter motor. 

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11 hours ago, Urbanengineer said:

That would be nuts if it isn’t spinning, but it has to be a little bit. Coolant wouldn’t flow at all without it. 

At a minimum you can remove rads from the bike, and try to flow water through them in your driveway.  Of course a radiator shop might be able to pressure test them, as well as possibly clean and descale them. 

 

As for coolant flowing via the via the water pump. Is it?  I guess without being there and seeing it I’m asking how do you know it’s flowing at all?  Your bike hit 240F that sounds like a flow (air or coolant) issue. What I’m not sure about would be how to check the flow on the VFR, it’s too new to me and looks like Honda overcomplicated it. On my Jeep TJ I’d just put the garden hose in the radiator (flows out to block at bottom of rad) then remove the hose from the thermostat housing on the top/front of block (flows back to top of rad) - once thermostat opens flow will come from here. 

 

Sorry I’m not closer. I’d come over to help!

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