Rattling when opening the throttle

[Mak0]

Hello VFRD!

 

I am new to riding and got a VFR800 8th generation from 2014 as second motorcycle.

I bought it used with 5000 km 2 months ago and I have ridden it 6000 km with it in this time frame.

 

The maintenance is soon due, at 12000 km. I was planning on cleaning it and doing some minor maintenance, with the agreement of my local official Honda dealer / garage.

 

However, on Saturday morning as I was firing it up to buy some of the tools I would need for the maintenance, I forgot to remove the disk lock on the front wheel, which broke a small part of the front fender. I consider this a non event but who knows. After assessing the damage (none that matters, or should matter), I tried to drive away and a loud rattling noise made me reconsider it.

While I do not care so much about cosmetics, I do not want to risk any damage on the engine.

 

The bike starts without an issue and keeps a constant normal idle rpm. The noise starts as soon as I open the throttle, with or without a gear engaged, with or without the clutch being engaged.

 

I have removed the fairing to try to hear more precisely where the noise comes from and hoping I would see something loose.

Now that the fairings are removed, I think the noise comes from the right side of the bike, around the front right cylinder. Looking on Internet, I understand this might be the front Cam Chain Tensioner being worn. This seems very early at 11000 km.

 

Could anyone point me towards a potential culprit and how to verify the hypothesis?

Should I just go to the dealer and not touch anything?

 

I might be wrong so if you got suggestions do not take all of my rookie analysis as solid.

I will try to post a video with the issue at hand during the day.

[Grum]

Hi Mak0.

Sad to hear of your problem, but I can't see how there would be any connection between your front disc lock issue and developing a noise within the engine. Agree that it is way too early for a cam chain tensioner to be an issue, haven't heard of any cam chain tensioner issues with 8gen owners to date. 

 

One thing that is new on the 8gen. Is that if you are stationary and hold the RPM above 2000 and the engine temp is above 45degC the cooling fan will operate. I wonder wether the damage has flung something into the cooling fan area making the strange noise. I'm grasping at straws a bit! Can you post some photos of the damage and sound file or video of the noise.

Good luck with it.

 

[Mak0]

3 hours ago, Grum said:

Sad to hear of your problem, but I can't see how there would be any connection between your front disc lock issue and developing a noise within the engine.

Another thread on VFRD was mentioning that a rattle in the engine had been fixed after polishing the front brake hydraulic switch. I have no idea how that could be linked neither and i don't know where such a switch is, but since there is a connection between his case and mine, I wanted to mention it.

 

3 hours ago, Grum said:

One thing that is new on the 8gen. Is that if you are stationary and hold the RPM above 2000 and the engine temp is above 45degC the cooling fan will operate. I wonder wether the damage has flung something into the cooling fan area making the strange noise. I'm grasping at straws a bit! Can you post some photos of the damage and sound file or video of the noise.

Good luck with it.

 

I have attached below 3 pictures related to my little incident with a disk lock. No visible damage on anything apart from a small piece of broken plastic.

The small debris in the top radiator are simply mosquitoes.

 

 

 

 

 

I have also recorded a small video showing the issue. Now that I rewatch the video, I can definitely say the noise is there even at idle.

The sound definitely comes from the engine area / under the tank (where the airbox is I reckon), not necessarily from the right side.

 

 

I will gladly take any hint on what could be the culprit.

[Grum]

Ok forget the suggestion about the cooling fan.

Are you saying this sound only appeared after the front disc lock issue? Does sound like the front CCT is not even working, like, terrible cam chain slap. Are you sure it's only from the front cyclinders? If so I would be removing the front CCT, check for damage or replacement.

Very strange on such a low kilometre 8gen.

Haven't got very bad, old fuel or wrong fuel in the tank by any chance? Is your oil level correct?

 

Can't believe the incident with your wheel lock could cause this damage/sound to your engine, it sounds serious!

[Thumbs]

That's an engine speed noise, take it to your dealer, I'm with Grum that sounds serious

 

The plastic can be repaired with super glue and baking soda, there's a thread on the CBR600 forum about it, works too

 

Have you tried using a long screwdriver as a stethoscope to pin point the noise?

[Mak0]

Thanks guys.

 

I can certify that the bike was running flawlessly on Wednesday and there was no noise on Thursday.

 

The disk lock incident is, I believe, external to the noise. I do not see how it could be linked. Just mentioning it as parts of "notable events" since last time it ran well.

 

The gas in it is from Wednesday. This is the standard gas one would put in his vehicle (unleaded, octane level 95%, less than 5% ethanol). The gas station is from a major one gas seller. It was purchased in Bern, capital of Switzerland. I'm quite certain that gas doesn't have time to run bad in this location.

 

Oil level is an interesting one.

The level hasn't moved over 4000 km and one day I got to brake really hard, triggering the ABS on both the front and wheel brakes.

Since then, I noticed a very slight unusual noise mostly apparent in 4th and 5th gear around 4000-5000 rpm. Nothing as bad as now though.

 

I aso noticed that the bike had drank some oil, leading me to ask the dealer about these events. Said dealer told me he couldn't see how it could be linked and just told me to put more oil to go back on normal level.

I put some 10W40 oil, and it's now sitting slightly above the max level.

A little bit of oil seems to drip from the exhaust tubes under the bike now and then. I think this stems from having slightly overfilled the oil reservoir so nothing to worry about (it is not entirely flooded with oil).

 

I can't be sure the noise is from the front cylinder only, but even if it were, I do not think i'm experienced enough to wander inside the internals of the bike.

I'll go to my dealer with the other bike and show him the video before attempting anything.

 

In the meantime, I'll be glad to receive more feedback to help the mechanics find the issue.

[Thumbs]

Grum you know most about the flapper valve set up ....something in there maybe?

[Grum]

8 hours ago, Thumbs said:

Grum you know most about the flapper valve set up ....something in there maybe?

 

Hi Thumbs. Like you I'm a little "DAZED AND CONFUSED"!   But no way known could the Air Intake Flapper cause such a noise and be so engine speed related.

Sounds horribly like bad cam chain slap in the front cyclinders. Normally if it were just the CCT it might disappear at higher RPM then come back at Idle, however it's there all the time. I'm only guessing, but I wonder whether the internal tensioner/damper has broken? Or perhaps a spring failure in the CCT itself?

 

Mak0 I like your idea of showing the dealership your video. Also look very closely at the Warranty agreement you have with the dealership and Honda itself. Suggest as Thumbs said and get it to your dealership ASAP, hopefully they are a reputable one!

 

This is a completly out of character for a low kilometer VFR, hope warranty will cover your repair costs??

Please Keep Us Posted on how you get on.

Good Luck.

[Mak0]

I went to the garage this morning, with the video I posted earlier. The mechanic's initial guess is a fault in the Cam Chain Tensioner department (either something with the teeth or oil (?)).

 

Sadly, the bike is out of warranty. The standard warranty period is 2 years in Switzerland for Honda motorcycles, and this bike has been purchased in January 2016 by the previous owner.

That's 6 months out of the warranty period.

 

When I mentioned that this was very strange for such a low kilometer model, coming from Honda, and particularly a VFR that I consider to be a very reliable machine (I could be wrong, just reputation) the mechanics told me he would be in contact with Honda to try to get them to cover a part of the expense.

I do not hold my breath over it but that would be great... Of course I will contact Honda myself as I do not believe a garage will go above and beyond for a simple customer.

 

 

I need to bring the bike tomorrow morning for further inspection.

[Grum]

Hope they can get it sorted as soon as possible. Keep us posted with what they find, think you're very unlucky to have this issue.

Good luck.

[Thumbs]

MakO get in touch with Honda yourself

 

Send the video to them in Japan for comment 

[Mak0]

8 hours ago, Thumbs said:

MakO get in touch with Honda yourself

 

Send the video to them in Japan for comment 

I will get in touch with Honda myself of course. I guess I'll explain the situation, send the video and maybe a link to this thread.

 

My 2 motorcycles are Honda and honestly each time I look at different models, I prefer the Hondas to the concurrence.

The Africa Twin, NC750, Fireblade and of course the VFR.

 

Honda has no obligation to assist me in any way, shape or form. But obviously, I will consider other brands if I am left stranded with a hole in my pocket, for a problem which should not occur on a new motorcycle.

I'm disappointed, sad even, to witness my companion fall on its knees.

 

For the record, I didn't trash the motorcycle around, never went faster than 135 kmh, rarely into VTEC mode (and if so, for 2 seconds) and never beyond 10k rpm.

[pzpz]

Indeed sounds like the  the front Cam Chain Tensioner being worn ( my front one started making noises only at ~80.000 km [on both owned Vfr's 6 gens : 2002/2009, the rear went after more than 100.000 km]

 

- The low milage of the bike doesn't support a Cct problem thesis. 

- On my 6'gen noise appears when idling not when throttling .

 

Good luck 

 

p.s

 

- The part is ~70 usd on ebay.

- Getting to the 2 bolts to free the front CCT one requires a bit of work to be done.... (on 6' Gen)

 

- There are some samples recordings on youtube... which can be compared to this exact noise sound.

 

[Mak0]

Thank you guys.

 

Sorry for the lack of update, I only recently got the VFR back. Long story short, the problem has resolved itself one morning. I don't really understand what or why. The noise started on a Saturday morning and stopped on the following Wednesday morning as I had planned to bring it to the mechanics. Without me doing anything specific to the bike, no change in weather or anything really.

 

While the mechanics agreed that the sound of the motorcycle in the video I have linked here (and which I showed them) was "not good", they couldn't really figure what was wrong since the noise was gone. I haven't asked them to dig into the "problem" since that would most likely have been costly and maybe there is nothing... I am really perplexed.

 

Either way, since then I have done most of the 12k km maintenance procedures and the Honda mechanics just went over some of the checks I don't know yet. I haven't noticed any problem, neither have they.

 

I am not 100% convinced the bike doesn't have an issue which might bite me back down the road, but since then I have done roughly 2000 km and the bike has behaved like a charm.

If the noise starts again, I will go straight to a mechanics to investigate...