darkcider Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Hi all, had the rear brake lock up on me recently after a high speed run in temps of 100degrees. After all had cooled down and I got home, I inspected the rear to see that the caliper mount casting was rubbing on the rotor ever so slightly and that the rotor wasn't running centrally in the cut-out in the mount. ABS ring was also pretty much touching the sensor. Pics show what I mean - the one with the tyre in shot is when I bought the bike new, the close up is from the other day. Reading the manual, there's no mention of shims or spacers to get the rotor in the correct positon - just shims to adjust the final drive bevel gears relative to one another. So has there been some warping or dishing of not only the rotor but the flange that hold the rotor?? Would it be safe to shim out the rotor assembly by using washers over the 5 wheel studs? We're only talking about 1.5 to 2mm here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted July 4, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted July 4, 2018 IMO that's worth a trip to a Honda service facility for an evaluation. Using spacers may just mask symptoms of something failing / out of adjustment in the hub vs correcting a problem. There is a drive shaft recall on some of these bikes - might want to check out if yours is in that group. I believe it concerned the U joint and related carrier bearing, but hard telling if there's also an effect on other components. More info here:https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/82547-big-h-issued-a-recall-on-vfr1200f-and-vfr1200x-redrive-shafts/& Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcider Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 Thanks for the reply. My bike had the drive shaft recall work done around 2 years ago now. As you say, the only component changed was the universal joint, not the final drive components. Sadly, I don't have much faith that Honda dealers here will be able to help, as the answer isn't in the workshop manual. All I can think of is that when doing the recall work, the bevel box housing has to be removed/disassembled and something hasn't been put back right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marsman99 Posted July 5, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted July 5, 2018 The driveshaft warranty repair would not require them to dismantle the final drive gear housing. However, in looking at an on-line fiche, there are 18 different size shims (ranging from 1.64 to 2.66) in the final drive gear housing that look like they could affect the position of the wheel/rotor flange as you've shown. Hard to imagine it coming from Honda with the wrong shim (or no shim) but you never know. Definitely something I'd have Honda look at. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcider Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 The shims come as pairs and if you use a thicker shim at one end of the bevel gear shaft, you use the correspondingly thinner shim at the other end of the shaft, which allows the gears to be moved relative to one another, but keeps the overall stack height of the output shaft the same. I'm with you though in thinking that there could be a component missing from the assembly - I'll have a look and strip it down myself, as the bike is out of warranty and even if there was a componenet missing, I bet I'd get charged for repair and labour, as they'd say it couldn't possibly be missing from new (and I am the first and only owner). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted July 6, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted July 6, 2018 It looks like that is the parking brake for the DCT, and the caliper appears to be loaded in the opposite direction of the rotor being offset. Maybe the caliper is locked up, or was installed incorrectly by the technicians when they did the driveshaft recall......definitely worth a disassembly and inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted July 6, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted July 6, 2018 Or, is that picture underneath the bike? I see a hydraulic line....never mind, just realized they moved the hydraulic caliper on the DCT......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcider Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 On DCT models, the main brake is mounted on the top of the swingarm and the parking brake (which is useless and has been removed) lives underneath. I have had the caliper off and completely stripped and cleaned. The issue isn’t really with the caliper though, it’s with the mounting bracket which bolts to the final drive housing and is virtually touching the disc rotor. I am going to have to strip down and inspect the hub as I really do suspect that there’s a spacer or some other component missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcider Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 The thing that really confounds me is that the gap between the ABS ring and the hub housing is pretty much identical from the two photos above. This would indicate that either the rotor carrier or the rotor itself is warped or dished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marsman99 Posted July 6, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted July 6, 2018 I noticed that too. Consistent with mine as well based on the photos below. Did notice your caliper seems to be more to the left than mine, which could pull the rotor I that direction. It would take a lot of force to do that and would be noticeable as you rotate the wheel. Perhaps re-check the caliper is floating ok before tearing into the hub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marsman99 Posted July 6, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted July 6, 2018 BTW Darkcider, glad to hear you find the parking brake on the DCTuseless as well. I've adjusted mine several times and it either drags eccessively or doesn't engage enough to secure the bike...no middle ground. C'mon Honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcider Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Ha! C'mon Honda indeed. I do wish they'd kept the VFR1200F in the model range now, instead of killing it off in Europe due to the emissions rules. The caliper in sliding correctly - pins greased and boots all intact. When you remove the caliper and just leave the caliper mount installed, the disc rotor doesn't sit central to the gap in the mount. I really am starting to suspect warping rather than anything else. I note that clearance on yours is only in the region of 1mm anyway, so even minor fluctuations in rotor carrier true-ness clould account for the lack of gap. I'll do a closer inspection next time I have a day off. 3 week old child is taking up a lot of time at the moment!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcider Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 I'll use the torx bolts that hold the ABS sensor ring as a datum - they appear to run almost exactly in line with the edge of the housing. If it turns out that the rotor carrier is warped, I'll get it pressed back into line, as a new part is around £400 believe it or not!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marsman99 Posted July 7, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted July 7, 2018 If that is the issue, begs the question how it got that way. Good luck, let us know what you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RC1237V Posted July 8, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2018 Something is awry, if the carrier is warped causing the rotor to become closer to the mount, the pad on the caliper would seem as it should be tight on the left side, not the right side...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gig Posted July 8, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted July 8, 2018 I had a brake pad not seated in the caliper correctly after a tire change, which then was pushing the rotor into the mounts like that. I would check the alignment of the caliper and pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 There is never a lot of clearance, but there should be some. If not, then something has been mis-assembled. Although the recall was only for the UJ, which meant the entire shaft was changed, all that rear assembly would have been apart (actual Final Drive Unit remained assembled though) so sounds like it was assembled incorrectly. Do the manual and DCT use the same disc and ABS rotor? I have a spare FDU and disc you could borrow to try if you wanted. I doubt worth shipping it, but if you ever come down near London... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/6/2018 at 5:18 PM, darkcider said: Ha! C'mon Honda indeed. I do wish they'd kept the VFR1200F in the model range now, instead of killing it off in Europe due to the emissions rules. Although it has been stated as such, that could not have been the real reason as the CrossTourer engine is almost identical yet passes the latest emissions regs. So there is NO way Honda could not get the F certified - if they wanted to. Fact was, sales were so low it wasn’t worth even that minimal effort so cheaper to kill it off, blaming emissions while thinking they saved face by not admitting it was a sales flop. It should and could have been a great success, but they blew it. In so many ways now, Honda just doesn’t seem to know what it’s doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just means our VFR F is destined to be a classic collectible. Isn’t it already a “cult” ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiKenG Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I have very mixed feelings about the demise of the VFR1200F. On the one hand, it saddens me that Honda got it all so wrong when it is in fact such a great bike (or could be). However, on the other hand, I quite like the fact it is not common and never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcider Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 19 hours ago, BiKenG said: Although it has been stated as such, that could not have been the real reason as the CrossTourer engine is almost identical yet passes the latest emissions regs. So there is NO way Honda could not get the F certified - if they wanted to. Fact was, sales were so low it wasn’t worth even that minimal effort so cheaper to kill it off, blaming emissions while thinking they saved face by not admitting it was a sales flop. It should and could have been a great success, but they blew it. In so many ways now, Honda just doesn’t seem to know what it’s doing. The thing is that the CrossTourer is vastly de-tuned in comparison to the F version - this allows Honda to achieve the stringent emission standards for the X. Very kind of you to offer the spare final drive. I think I’ll buy one from a breaker and have it ready for when I strip and inspect mine. I suspect that some sort of misalignment of the pads or caliper have resulted in the disc carrier being warped/dished. There’s a step in the rotor carrier (which is a cast piece, not forged) and at the step, the metal of the carrier is very thin - only around 2mm thick. With the excess heat and forces involved, it wouldnt surprise me if the rotor carrier was bent to the left at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gig Posted July 13, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted July 13, 2018 Mine returned back to shape once the pad was seated correctly, not forcing the rotor into the caliper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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