Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 14, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 14, 2018 1999 but built in 1998, so 20 years and 103,400 miles of fuel flowing through the filter and injectors. Maybe it's time for some attention? Sent off the injectors to Pro Flow Technologies in FL. I chose them because I sorta knew the co-owner from my track days and crappy racing. This is the third set of VFR injectors I've sent off to them, and haven't had any problems. First 2 sets were VTECs, and not mine. Just doing some work for others. Website says "From $19 per injector", and I believe that's what the VTECs cost. For whatever reason mine were $21 per, and they replaced the O-rings as well for an additional $8 total. Twelve bucks to send 'em back and it cost me $104. Considering I've had the bike 15 years, it works out to a mere $693/year of ownership, or $0.0010058 per mile. The report on them was included and before cleaning they all passed leak test. Spray pattern graded Good, Fair, Bad, and all mine were fair. M/S-RPM (I don't know what that is) is graded Pass-Fail and all mine passed. After cleaning, of course spray pattern improved to Good and the others were unchanged. Flow rate increased by 6%. I don't know if Honda has an official service life for the fuel filter, but I figured it was time. Especially with newly cleaned injectors! While I'm waiting for that order to arrive I decided to open it up and take a look. Inside the filter body is super clean. I wiped a Q-tip inside the pleats and definitely some accumulated dirt in there. I looked inside the tank and it is rust free, so I wasn't concerned with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1962 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Amazing and not surprising. Have you worked out how many gallons/litres of petrol have flowed through that fuel system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 14, 2018 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 14, 2018 LOL, no I hadn't thought of that! It's been a couple.😄 Fellow VFRDer Wera803 sent me this he found on Facebook. Pretty much that’s why I decided to open mine. That looks like rust, and like I said I wasn’t worried about that. Just wanted to see what 103,400 miles of fuel does to the filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 I changed my the tank in my 5th to a 6th gen tank, and decided to change the filter while i was at it for the same reason- mines a bit over 160,000ks/100,000 miles. Not doing injectors, but did clean 17.5 years out of the 18years of build up in the throttle bodies. Looking forward to hearing it again and seeing if i notice the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanengineer Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 @keef that would be interesting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ducnut Posted June 16, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2018 Haha. I’m the FB filter pic. It’s funny how stuff gets spread around. The backstory is I bought a project bike that, obviously, had been sitting. It’s completely disassembled, right now, and slowly working through everything. I use Eric Derr for injector work. He’s $55, completely serviced, for a set of 4. He includes O-rings, injector screens, return shipping, etc. Can’t beat his pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 16, 2018 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2018 Thanks for filling me in on that, I figured it was a pretty badly rusted tank for it to look like that. Great deal on the injectors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Havagan Posted June 17, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2018 On 6/14/2018 at 3:32 PM, KevCarver said: Sent off the injectors to Pro Flow Technologies in FL. I chose them because I sorta knew the co-owner from my track days and crappy racing. Melka? I've used Pro Flow a couple of times also and been happy with the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 17, 2018 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 17, 2018 6 hours ago, Havagan said: Melka? I've used Pro Flow a couple of times also and been happy with the results. Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ducnut Posted June 18, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2018 On 6/16/2018 at 11:06 AM, KevCarver said: Thanks for filling me in on that, I figured it was a pretty badly rusted tank for it to look like that. Great deal on the injectors! Believe it or not, the tank looks fantastic, now. Evapo-Rust works great, without harming finishes. I dropped in a bunch of coated screws to help knock off anything stubborn. It’s been a slow process of changing the position of the soaking tank, every 24hrs. It’ll get there, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 18, 2018 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2018 That's awesome! I've never wanted to go that route. Looks like a messy and time consuming process... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Stray Posted June 18, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2018 17 hours ago, ducnut said: Believe it or not, the tank looks fantastic, now. Evapo-Rust works great, without harming finishes. I dropped in a bunch of coated screws to help knock off anything stubborn. It’s been a slow process of changing the position of the soaking tank, every 24hrs. It’ll get there, though. Good on you, mate. Much better than those awful tank liners. I’ve has good results derusting steel tanks with phosphoric acid and another time with electrolysis (run off a battery tender). Both work well. I’d bet your solution will work beautifully too. One caution: clean steel rusts FAST after you remove the solution so make sure to dry it ASAP after the final decant. You may want to coat it immediately after with a bit of oil. I use ACF50 but you can use a bit of diesel too as it leaves a protective film. Rinse out with petrol (gas) before mounting to bike. The first rank of fuek will wash wash off any remaining residues. I know now it sounds weird but diesel is very good for this sort of thing. Stray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ducnut Posted June 18, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Stray said: Good on you, mate. Much better than those awful tank liners. I’ve has good results derusting steel tanks with phosphoric acid and another time with electrolysis (run off a battery tender). Both work well. I’d bet your solution will work beautifully too. One caution: clean steel rusts FAST after you remove the solution so make sure to dry it ASAP after the final decant. You may want to coat it immediately after with a bit of oil. I use ACF50 but you can use a bit of diesel too as it leaves a protective film. Rinse out with petrol (gas) before mounting to bike. The first rank of fuek will wash wash off any remaining residues. I know now it sounds weird but diesel is very good for this sort of thing. Stray I’m a career truck driver and shadetree idiot, so familiar with your suggestions. For sure, once it’s rinsed, I’ll remove the pump, sending unit, and cap and leave it in the sun. I agree, liner kits aren’t really meant for decent tanks like this one. They’re a last-ditch effort for an irreplaceable tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 23, 2018 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 23, 2018 Well crap! I guess it wasn’t the original pump after all. I know I’ve had several (at least 3) tanks over the years but I thought I had swapped the same pump through them all. Apparently not, as the ‘98-‘99 filter I ordered doesn’t fit my pump. I guess I have the ‘00-‘01 pump instead. I know one of them along the way had the restricted opening of the later models, and I guess that’s the pump I have now. Maybe not 103,400 miles, but probably around 70,000... (Still a lot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted June 24, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 24, 2018 Gack! I feel for you Kev! I ordered the J-shaped 'hose B, fuel pump' for my 1999 twice [it wasn't yet classified as 'not available' - now it is]. I'm glad I was ordering from my local dealer, because instead of sending J-shaped 16712-MBG-000 I had ordered, twice Honda sent 16711-MBG-010 which is a straight hose that probably fits great with the J-shaped tube on your filter. My dealer is cool about OEM parts. Thanks Kev, ducnut, and Stray for posting about what our VFRs need at 100k miles/160k kms. It's great to read and learn from you guys. Speaking of filters, I opted for a $4.49 Duralast filter from Autozone instead of the $61.85 filter from Honda [in the RMATVMC parts fiche, the $61.85 filter doesn't even have the cool J-tube yours does, Kev]. The filter on the right is the one I removed from the 1999's tank: Now that I see how bad it can get inside the in-tank fuel filter, I think I'll cut open the old OEM and the new $4.49 Duralast to make sure the Duralast has the same level of filtration media. If the Duralast is well made, I'll just get another one to replace the surgically disemboweled unit. I won't be able to do this until I get back from a two week trip, but I'll post my findings here when I get back. The 1999 is a project bike whose tank was in the same condition as ducnut's. Like him, I replaced all the internal hoses, the pump, and cleaned the tank by putting 2 gallons of Evaporust in it and rotating the tank every couple days for three weeks. It probably wouldn't have taken the Evaporust three weeks to clean the tank, but I was working on other systems on the bike, so left it in the tank until I was ready to reassemble it with the new pump and other bits. All clean as a whistle now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 24, 2018 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 24, 2018 Top is the filter for '98-'99 16900-MBG-003 Bottom is 16900-MBG-013 that fits '00 through 6th Gen Both are the same price and with the VFRD Discount at Mason City approx. $36+shipping. (I ordered several things and didn't get a price breakdown on it.) I bought a length of fuel line from the parts store, but it wouldn't make the turn to my satisfaction. So I ordered 16900-MBG-013 but then broke my pump trying to get the original hose back on.😡 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted June 24, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 24, 2018 Again I commiserate with you. Gack. I tried the same auto parts store fuel tubing J-bend with the same results. I ended up reexamining the original J hose and soaking it in Evaporust, which cleaned off all the gunk, leaving a structurally sound hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ducnut Posted June 24, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 24, 2018 That Duralast filter looks like a better fit than the Wix filter I used. The pic shows what I’m going to run. There were some doubters, but, Evapo-Rust did the deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ducnut Posted June 24, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 24, 2018 Here’s what that same view looked like, before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbanengineer Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 @KevCarverI'm amazed you don't run a spring around the fuel line to keep it from kinking. That bend would worry me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 25, 2018 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 25, 2018 6 hours ago, Urbanengineer said: @KevCarverI'm amazed you don't run a spring around the fuel line to keep it from kinking. That bend would worry me. Scrapped the whole thing and ordered a '00-'01 filter.😐 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 25, 2018 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 25, 2018 11 hours ago, ducnut said: There were some doubters, but, Evapo-Rust did the deed. That is impressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer JZH Posted June 26, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 26, 2018 Are you guys using "submersible" fuel line? It has to be special hose to survive inside the fuel tank. It should be marked SAE R10, rather than R9. Also, worm-drive hose clamps are not recommended--for fuel injection you really want to be using Oetiker single-ear "o-clips" (requires special tool) or this kind of screw clamp: Ciao, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 26, 2018 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 26, 2018 9 hours ago, JZH said: Are you guys using "submersible" fuel line? It has to be special hose to survive inside the fuel tank. It should be marked SAE R10, rather than R9. Ciao, I suspected that was the case, but I’m going to stick with stock and ordered the OEM filter with the curved outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sfdownhill Posted June 28, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted June 28, 2018 Ducnut - your Evaporust did more work than mine. What a relief to get it that clean. JZH - is there no limit to the depth of your knowledge? You are an amazing resource. Thanks for helping us not melt rubber into our tanks. I was going to reuse the simple OEM clip clamps, after squeezing them as far as possible to restore their tension. At this stage, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn reusing the OEM clamps is a no-no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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