16,000 mile service

[Aeolo]

Everybody had the valve check undertaken at 16,000 miles. Some independents are saying leave till 32,000 miles. Been quoted between £500 - £800. Anybody found they need adjustment at 16,000?

[FJ12Ryder]

I had a one tight valve on my '99 at 16,000 miles. Reshimmed it. 

 

I guess I should specify that I did the check myself. It makes a difference.

[Dutchy]

My RC36-2 had its first valve check at 50,000 miles.

Only 1 was a tad to wide out of spec...

 

When the 1st check was due (I bought the bike new in 1997) I went to the Honda dealer.

He asked me if I enjoyed burning bank notes to ash...

I would buy a new helmet instead of spending 500-800 notes...

 

YMMV

[Cogswell]

I plan to look at my 6th gen's valves at 32,000 miles - but then again I'm an incorrigible DIY'er.  There are plenty of used low mile (some incredibly low) 6th gen engines out there for the price of a valve adjustment.  8th gen engines aren't there yet in availability or price, but probably will be in a few years.  I haven't seen anyone do it yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if with a few tweaks a 6th gen long block could be fitted to an 8th gen chassis. 

[Thumbs]

That quote from the dealer for the 16,000 mile service includes new brake fluid and pads, clutch fluid, air filter, oil and filter change, full check over and computer check up PLUS the valve check

 

Mine cost £720 in vat so you're not being ripped off, that included a loan bike with unlimited mileage

[Aeolo]

17 hours ago, Thumbs said:

That quote from the dealer for the 16,000 mile service includes new brake fluid and pads, clutch fluid, air filter, oil and filter change, full check over and computer check up PLUS the valve check

 

Mine cost £720 in vat so you're not being ripped off, that included a loan bike with unlimited mileage

 

Thanks for the reply.

Was that price main dealer or independent?

Any feedback on if the valves required any adjustments?

[Skids]

My 15-plate Crossrunner (same engine as the 8th Gen) didn't need any new shims at its 16k service. New shims does seem to be a rarity on the 8th Gen/800X.

 

Cost-wise I don't recall but it isn't cheap, that's for sure. Much (all) of it can be done at home if one is so inclined/skilled/equipped but mine was still under warranty so I was minded to pay for a dealer to do it.

 

Got my 24k due within a few weeks, quoted at around £200 which includes caliper check/clean and a loan bike.

[Bent]

Has anyone heard of a specific VFR engine having significant damage due to valves not being checked and being out of tolerance?  There are some VFRD members with over 100K miles on their engines that have never had valves checked.  

[FJ12Ryder]

From my experience shim-under-cam type engines will tend to have their clearances lessen as the valves

seat further into the heat and/or the valve seats wear a bit. Unlikely for catastrophic damage to result, just

gradually reduced performance. Probably gradually enough to not even be noticed over time. It doesn't mean

there isn't any damage occurring, just isn't terribly severe. All depends on how you feel about it.

 

A compression check or leakdown test can tell you if any valves are burnt from not sealing well. Given enough

wear the valve can sit on the cam and not seal completely in the head, resulting in a burnt valve or eroded

valve seat.

[Dutchy]

3 hours ago, Bent said:

Has anyone heard of a specific VFR engine having significant damage due to valves not being checked and being out of tolerance?  There are some VFRD members with over 100K miles on their engines that have never had valves checked.  

 

I only recall 1 (as in ONE) case since I've been following VFR's since 1997. Someone had bought a second hand (6th gen?) that blew up after prolonged high speed motorway blasting.

He checked with the PO and learned (my memory is flaky) that in 80,000kms or so the oil was never changed (merely topped up) nor valves ever checked...

 

 

 

 

[Thumbs]

11 hours ago, Aeolo said:

 

Thanks for the reply.

Was that price main dealer or independent?

Any feedback on if the valves required any adjustments?

 

That was Fowlers in Bristol 

 

To me the dealer stamp and 100% confidence in the motor, which regularly sees the red line, was worth it

[Grum]

14 hours ago, Bent said:

Has anyone heard of a specific VFR engine having significant damage due to valves not being checked and being out of tolerance?  There are some VFRD members with over 100K miles on their engines that have never had valves checked.  

 

This is interesting. Have to admit my four vfr's never had a valve clearance check (yeah I know - naughty me). A few years ago I had an interesting conversation with a respected Honda service tech. My question - How many VFR's you've worked on required valve adjustment. Answer - Very few, hardly any, but suggested it should be checked at least once in a life of say 100,000k's, also made the point of having it checked with the intention of a lot of hi revving riding or track work.

Each to their own.

Cheers.

[Skids]

Thing is, they're not exactly difficult to check, just a little time consuming getting to the cam covers, but once that's done it's easy.

 

So why wouldn't you check them?

[Bent]

9 hours ago, Skids said:

Thing is, they're not exactly difficult to check, just a little time consuming getting to the cam covers, but once that's done it's easy.

 

So why wouldn't you check them?

 

Because not everybody has the time to do it or they value their time doing other things more.  You said it.  

[Skids]

17 hours ago, Bent said:

 

Because not everybody has the time to do it or they value their time doing other things more.  You said it.  

 

I appreciate that m8, but a little encouragement may get some folk to try it and discover that you can save money whilst enjoying yourself and getting to know your bike even better. Even if only 1 person tried it, that would be great, wouldn't it?

[fink]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 4:23 AM, Grum said:

 

This is interesting. Have to admit my four vfr's never had a valve clearance check (yeah I know - naughty me). A few years ago I had an interesting conversation with a respected Honda service tech. My question - How many VFR's you've worked on required valve adjustment. Answer - Very few, hardly any, but suggested it should be checked at least once in a life of say 100,000k's, also made the point of having it checked with the intention of a lot of hi revving riding or track work.

Each to their own.

Cheers.

 

We have a Vtec servicing kit on one of the other forums I frequent. The main comment is also the same regarding the "normal" clearances, however when it comes to the Vtec most of them are out of spec at 32K. 

[Grum]

7 hours ago, fink said:

 

We have a Vtec servicing kit on one of the other forums I frequent. The main comment is also the same regarding the "normal" clearances, however when it comes to the Vtec most of them are out of spec at 32K. 

Hi Fink.

Vtec servicing kit - assume this is for variable valve timed Cars?

Sorry m8 just don't quite see the relevance to our Non Variable Valves on the VFR's, especially seeing the VTEC valves generally get little use compared to the main valves, depending on your riding style of course.

Cheers.

[fink]

20 hours ago, Grum said:

Hi Fink.

Vtec servicing kit - assume this is for variable valve timed Cars?

Sorry m8 just don't quite see the relevance to our Non Variable Valves on the VFR's, especially seeing the VTEC valves generally get little use compared to the main valves, depending on your riding style of course.

Cheers.

 

 

Im talking about the stopper pins for the vtec.

take out cams, fit VTEC stopper pins, refit cams, measure and work out new shim sizes, take out cams, fit new shims, refit cams and measure to confirm correct clearance, remove cams, remove VTEC stopper pins, refit cams, put it all back together. 

[Thumbs]

Thanks fink, it's not just a feeler gauges job and I didn't have the time to put as well as you have

 

My nephew has just done his 03 and what a performance

[fink]

11 minutes ago, Thumbs said:

Thanks fink, it's not just a feeler gauges job and I didn't have the time to put as well as you have

 

My nephew has just done his 03 and what a performance

Agreed . This is one of the best pic how to do walk through.

 

http://members.home.nl/jfknippels/inspecting_valve_clearances_front.htm

[Grum]

4 hours ago, fink said:

 

 

Im talking about the stopper pins for the vtec.

take out cams, fit VTEC stopper pins, refit cams, measure and work out new shim sizes, take out cams, fit new shims, refit cams and measure to confirm correct clearance, remove cams, remove VTEC stopper pins, refit cams, put it all back together. 

 

Thanks Fink. That's why I love this forum, learn something new every day?

Cheers m8

[XRM]

The mechanics at our dealer also said it was unusual for the valves to require shimming at 16k miles.  Our bikes were running quiet (no tapping) but the guys did an inspection anyway and all was good.  

 

generally speaking a little extra clearance is okay, too tight valve clearances is much worse leading to burnt valves in extreme cases.

 

 

 

[FJ12Ryder]

FWIW most bikes with cam/bucket arrangement will rarely have them loosen up, just from the way things

work. With rockers it's very common for clearances to increase because there are more wear points. But

over time valves will tend to seat farther into the head as the  valve and valve seats wear a bit resulting in

clearances decreasing. I've had some clearances increase on some bikes, not the VFR, but the norm was

for them to decrease.

[fink]

8 hours ago, XRM said:

The mechanics at our dealer also said it was unusual for the valves to require shimming at 16k miles.  Our bikes were running quiet (no tapping) but the guys did an inspection anyway and all was good.  

 

generally speaking a little extra clearance is okay, too tight valve clearances is much worse leading to burnt valves in extreme cases.

 

 

 

Shimmed bikes go quiet when tolerances go out of spec. 

[Mohawk]

So the manufacturers don't just make up the valve adjustment intervals, they work them out using prototype engine tests which run for 100's of thousands of mile son dyno's. Then based on their tests.  The reason the price varies is down to check verses replace, so to check the mechanic has to strip the fairings, tank, radiator etc just to get access. To adjust means removing the cams even if only one valve is out in one head, then half the cams have to come out, shims changed, cams reinstalled & timed correctly, then everything put back together. It was much easier on the 5th gens, with gear cams than later models with chains. But it is a lot of work. Ask for a printed set of clearances & or which if any valves need shims changed. You are entitled to this info, if they refuse don't use them. Also ask for pics with the cam covers off, just to prove it was done.

 

You can save some money by removing the lower fairing sides, saves about 30minutes of mechanic rates.

 

For those who advocate NOT doing the checks because someone else said theirs was fine, just remember for everyone that was fine, there is probably one that needed doing & if you leave it to long, you risk burning out a valve seat, which is a head off, new valve & new valve seat, which will cost 3-4 times as much as a check. Remember this is your bike, so don't trust random strangers who will not pay to fix YOUR bike if it goes wrong. Also if you try to sell it later, if the check was NOT done, then I & most of those that advise not to check would demand a discount on your price, so its your choice.  Great if like me you can do your own, but if paying for it, its a steep bill.

 

Your choice, YMMV.