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non start, no spark


Kev800

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  • 5 weeks later...

IT LIVES.

 

The new ECU arrived today it was definitely faulty

 

The one one thing I will say people is if the ecu ever fails on you steer clear of a company called MOTOMATRIX. I don’t like to talk trash about people on the internet but this company will only add to the stress of trying to fix your bike


 

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Pleased to hear you've got it working. There are few things worse than having that 'totally stumped' feeling, but this forum is always a great place to turn to for advice. The UK forum (if it's the one I'm thinking of) has hardly any actual VFR owners now and only a small number of contributors. There's some good historic stuff on there, but VFRDiscusion is much better all round.

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5 hours ago, Kev800 said:

Thanks for that. 

 

Im now breaking the bike. 

The ecu has failed again and I refuse to spend any more time/money on it

 

Hi Kev. That's a real shame to hear. ECU's are normally incredibly reliable. There's probably more you could check. But if you've decided against any more time on the project so be it. Hope you manage to get yourself a set of reliable wheels, bit of a bummer, a well cared for VFR is a great machine. All the best.

Cheers.

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The only way to be confident about putting another ECU on the bike is to replace 

 

cam pulse generator

ignition pulse generator

stator

reg/rec

 

to purchase all four parts new is just shy of 1000 GBP from Honda. 

Ijust don’t feel a 15 year old bike that has let me down before is worth the time effort or the money, I’ve owned this bike for a grand total of 10 weeks and it’s spent 8 of those in my garage in pieces. Which is a shame because when it works it’s a lovely bike 

594C9A31-7524-4B56-BB1D-057F06071B33.jpeg

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24 minutes ago, Kev800 said:

The only way to be confident about putting another ECU on the bike is to replace 

 

cam pulse generator

ignition pulse generator

stator

reg/rec

 

to purchase all four parts new is just shy of 1000 GBP from Honda. 

Ijust don’t feel a 15 year old bike that has let me down before is worth the time effort or the money, I’ve owned this bike for a grand total of 10 weeks and it’s spent 8 of those in my garage in pieces. Which is a shame because when it works it’s a lovely bike 

594C9A31-7524-4B56-BB1D-057F06071B33.jpeg

Hi Kev.

To me it seems you would be unlikely to have another ECU failure, so forget another ECU replacement. When your bike was running, did you happen the measure the charging voltage? If you did and you saw anything from 13.5 to say 14.5v then you can say your Stator and R/R are O.K. That leaves the Cam Pulse and Ignition pulse generators, according to my 6gen service manual Fi codes 18 and 19 are for those items, yet you never had a fail code for either of them.

 

So for your Fuel Pump to Run it must receive a solid Ground through the ECU. I cant stress this highly enough to verify your ECU Grounds are solid back to the Battery Negative terminal along with ALL other grounds and verify the 12v supplies to the ECU are valid. Check this against your drawing for your ECU version.

 

Good Luck if you feel like a little more tinkering. That really is a great looking bike.

Cheers. :beer:

 

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It had a new wiring loom fitted when the last ecu failed as a just to be sure measure. The fault I’m getting again is identical no spark no ignition pulse, I forgot to check the charge rates if I’m honest. 

 

One thing ink I will say is this time if you crank long enough the FI light does come on solidly. I haven’t checked the outputs on the 2 generators purely because my luck with this bike has been shocking and I can only accurately check resistance as I don’t have the pico scope here any more. 

 

And it is a lovely looking bike, thank you 🙂

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40 minutes ago, Kev800 said:

It had a new wiring loom fitted when the last ecu failed as a just to be sure measure. The fault I’m getting again is identical no spark no ignition pulse, I forgot to check the charge rates if I’m honest. 

 

One thing ink I will say is this time if you crank long enough the FI light does come on solidly. I haven’t checked the outputs on the 2 generators purely because my luck with this bike has been shocking and I can only accurately check resistance as I don’t have the pico scope here any more. 

 

And it is a lovely looking bike, thank you 🙂

Kev.

Forget the Pico Scope. You haven't isolated the Engine Stop Relay OR the Bank Angle Sensor either one of these failing or being intermittent or its associated wiring might cause your issue.

 

Use your meter for the Ground and Voltage checks mentioned. According to my 6gen drawing ECU pins B1, B2 and B14 should be solid ground back to the Battery Negative terminal.

 

You can for test purposes bypass the BAS by jumping a ground wire to the Engine Stop Relay coil ground. You could replace the Engine Stop Relay with your Hi Beam Relay - won't cost you a cent! worth a try.

Can you remember just how your bike failed after you got it going with the second ECU? Did it cough and splutter a bit or did it die instantly. This might help determine whether you had only a fuel failure or major ignition/power failure. 

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Ok so I’ve just been out and checked the fault codes, code 1 & 18 are present I know 18 is for the cam pulse generator so I checked the resistance across that sensor and it’s in the M ohms range ( that could be a dirty connection) Honda quote the range @ 400 - 600

 

im going to spend a bit of time de pinning that plug cleaning the terminals and then I’ll recheck.

 

i really don’t know if I should thank you or curse you at the minute as now you have my hopes up and I’ve had rotten luck lately. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Kev800 said:

Ok so I’ve just been out and checked the fault codes, code 1 & 18 are present I know 18 is for the cam pulse generator so I checked the resistance across that sensor and it’s in the M ohms range ( that could be a dirty connection) Honda quote the range @ 400 - 600

 

Kev. This is good news, lets hope your luck is on the turn. You are definitely onto something. Its just an inductive coil pickup, should definitely NOT be in the Meg ohm range. 

Don't go "breaking down" your bike just yet!

New Cam Pulse Generator may be all you need.:wheel:

 

Good Luck.Keep us posted.

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In either case, check this common ground bus connector with a multimeter and just do the fix regardless, it's a generic issue, even if you've swapped out the front wiring harness / loom.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/62525-faulty-ground-connector/&share_tid=62525&share_fid=35196&share_type=t

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I did come across the big yellow connector. But took a slightly different course the extra cable was already on the bike when I bought it as in the picture, I changed it slightly so that the wire is soldered all the way across the bridging connector then sealed it up with self amalgamating tape I’m happy that the earth is good here

D0316E87-D542-4769-A7CF-495623E9E75B.jpeg

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14 hours ago, Kev800 said:

I did come across the big yellow connector. But took a slightly different course the extra cable was already on the bike when I bought it as in the picture, I changed it slightly so that the wire is soldered all the way across the bridging connector then sealed it up with self amalgamating tape I’m happy that the earth is good here

 

 

Hi Kev. Glad you had a very close look at the Ground Block and sorted those issues. The wire in your picture has the classic signs of a Cold Solder joint which could have caused you grief at any stage.

 

Track down a new Cam Pulse Generator and hopefully you'll be on the road again. Have you fully determined whether the plug wiring is ok or not, or the Cam Pulse Generator itself has gone high resistance?

 

The OEM part number is 36140-MBG-003 Pulser Assy Cam price was $96.53usd Partzilla.

 

Shall be looking forward to hearing your run of "rotten luck" has ended, be Great to know your VFR lives again.

Good Luck.

Cheers.:beer:

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Cam pulse generator tested at 15 M ohms the wire was green all the way down to the sensor. I have ordered a used one from eBay for now because it was £12 instead of £200 if the bike runs I will invest in a brand new one

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Cam pulse generator tested at 15 M ohms the wire was green all the way down to the sensor. I have ordered a used one from eBay for now because it was £12 instead of £200 if the bike runs I will invest in a brand new one
Unless that used one is dodgy too...

BTW hopefully you soldered the female terminals onto each male prong on that yellow connector because that's where it fails to provide continuity. The new cable you soldered in to alternative grounding point can't get them thar electrons to ground if the male-female connections are a misnomer (i.e. not connecting well).

If you're going to do something...
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42 minutes ago, Kev800 said:

Cam pulse generator tested at 15 M ohms the wire was green all the way down to the sensor. I have ordered a used one from eBay for now because it was £12 instead of £200 if the bike runs I will invest in a brand new one

 

Good luck with it Kev, do us a favour and record what the Ohms are on the replacement, be keen to know if it falls within 400 - 600ohm range as specified.

Cheers.

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So the second hand cam pulse generator turned up in the post about 30 mins ago. I tested it before I fitted it (699 ohms) so I don’t expect it will last too long. I’m now in two minds to keep it or not. 

 

The MOT runs out soon, should I have it tested and keep it or move it on?

 

for those of you following this outside the UK the MOT is a government safety inspection carried out yearly to be allowed to use a vehicle on the roads in the UK

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23 minutes ago, Kev800 said:

So the second hand cam pulse generator turned up in the post about 30 mins ago. I tested it before I fitted it (699 ohms) so I don’t expect it will last too long. I’m now in two minds to keep it or not. 

 

The MOT runs out soon, should I have it tested and keep it or move it on?

 

for those of you following this outside the UK the MOT is a government safety inspection carried out yearly to be allowed to use a vehicle on the roads in the UK

Mate couldn't give a rats about MOT. Is your bike finally running?  That's what is all important at the moment.

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