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ABS malfunction on 2016 bike.

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Hi (fellow sufferersūüėú), I'm experiencing a problem with the ABS system on my (UK reg. year '16 DCT) bike and am looking for some serious (p**s-takers and Clever Dicks, please walk on) input from other members that may have experienced a similar problem too. The bike's still under warranty ( it's 3 years on the BIG VFR) but before I again make the 160 mile round trip to my favoured Honda dealer for another ( of which, more later *) diagnostic¬† read-out, I'm hoping there may be a simple solution that I can fix myself. I should say that though the bike is 2 years old it only had 350 miles on the clock when I bought it this April and the fact that it must have been standing for 2years or so may have some bearing on the fault which is as follows...When setting off on a ride-out the ABS light goes out at 6mph/10kph as normal, but, come the first junction/stop when applied,¬† the front brake lever pulses quite strongly a couple of times then the system seems to go into non-ABS mode. This is quite unnerving in the wet since, as the lever goes 'dead', the instinct is to grab even more brake! After a few more miles the ABS light starts blinking and, whilst it does,¬† the system definitely goes into non-ABS mode which is predictable and quite manageable.

*I've already presented the bike at a Honda main dealers once where they accessed the fault codes stored in the ECU. They said they, the codes, were showing a 'spike' (?) and they had cleared the codes but pointed to the fact I had a GoPro camera and a GPS device both hard-wired into the bikes electrical system.  They seemed to think this may have some bearing on the problem. I find this hard to believe since the camera is fully charged but rarely used and everybody else with a GPS never seems to encounter any issues and, if anything, the  Honda heated grips, when in use, must draw more current than everything else put together.  Anyway, I rode home but after 20 miles or so the ABS warning light was blinking again.  This weekend I intend to examine 3 possible areas which could be the cause of my woes; the gap and condition of the sender units on both wheels, the  condition and cleanliness of ALL the fuses and also remove the 'Middle Panel' to make sure that the large plug on the ABS unit itself does not have any 'dry' connectors. That only leaves the unit itself and other than try a substitute replacement I have no idea what to do about that. 

Your thoughts Gentlemen, please.

 

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Under the seat next to the breaker box you have a red service plug. Get service manual and read the fault codes. At least you will know which weel is the issue. Or if it is low power issue.

 

Since you have a DCT be awared that DCT won't change gears if ABS is off.

 

 

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Not too familiar with your bike, but there have been ABS issues caused by a battery down on charge. Are you sure your battery is in good health? You did mention the bike had been left standing for two years, this would probably destroy your battery!

Also wonder if disconnecting the battery for a while might just reset things. Also make sure battery connections are good and tight.

Just a thought.

Good luck.

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agree on the battery causing a code.  But, you need to see what code it's showing to understand what's happening or wrong.  Without it, you're really shooting in the dark.  Did the Honda dealer tell you the specific code it was showing?  Don't think the hard wire devices would cause the ABS light to come on.  If your electrics are good, it could either be a wheel speed sensor or the ABS module, all of which have specific codes to help diagnose to the cause.  

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On 5/9/2018 at 5:49 PM, c5ip said:

agree on the battery causing a code.  But, you need to see what code it's showing to understand what's happening or wrong.  Without it, you're really shooting in the dark.  Did the Honda dealer tell you the specific code it was showing?  Don't think the hard wire devices would cause the ABS light to come on.  If your electrics are good, it could either be a wheel speed sensor or the ABS module, all of which have specific codes to help diagnose to the cause.  

 

Thanks for your interest c5ip. At the last dealer visit the fault code indicated that the tyre pressures were out of spec'. Yes, really. That's what I was told! (Nothing registered, re - the module).  They may have been a few pounds up, but, having just ridden 80 miles to the dealers on a hot day that was to be expected. The pressures were re-set to 36/42lbs and off I went up the road. 6 miles and the ABS is blinking again. I've cleaned the speed sensors and checked the gaps (both on the lower limit; .020"/ .05mm). Checked the fusses under the seat and monitored the generator's charging rate (14.5 volts). Re-set the (cold) tyre pressures too. I'm pretty sure the module's good because when it is working (testing under heavy breaking) I can feel the lever 'pulsing' so it seems to be an intermittent fault in the 'initiation' circuitry. I'll try another battery next before I start dicking about with the module.

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If the generator power is good as indicated, then the battery should NOT be called on to supply any power during normal use, EXCEPT when at idle ! Most bike circuits don't have enough capacity at low revs, so this may explain the "1st Junction" scenario !  Just load test the battery, any bike/car center should have a load tester. Just take it out of the baike & down to your nearest friendly car service center & it takes about a minute !   If the battery tests good, the lack of power will have caused a complete ECU/ABS system reset, which would be advisable before trying to diagnose further anyway.

 

If either wheel sensor was faulty, the ABS light would NOT clear when you set off. Tyre pressures would have to be well out to cause a wheel speed sensor discrepancy.

Some of the newer systems use the wheel sensor as the speedo input which can cause issues on chain driven bikes if you change gearing, but not an issue on shaft drives. Because the wheel speed at both ends stays the same, but the speed registered per ABS Ring rotation goes out, when compared to the presets in the system. Pointless, as ABS really should NOT need a speed input, wheel speed at each end is relative & all that really matters.

 

 

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Hello Gringo,

 

 

My last name HAS the word DICK in it (and yep during my 4 years in Scotland that was the source of manier joke on me), so nothing wrong with Dicks OK:goofy:

 

I can fully relate to you being pissed off, having bought a new vehicle. I was one of the first "lucky" ones with a VW Tigiuan 1.4Tci........   Whilst all the crap (too long to list) was covered (lease car), it put me off VW long before they got caught with their pants down.

 

 

Here goes:

 

- Indeed clean the ABS ring/sensor (doubtful but hey, nothing ventured) and check fuses and wires/connectors between altenator, voltage regulater and battery for discoloration/melting

-have the battery load tested (any car garage should be able to do that for you)

-if in any doubt, just buy a new YUASA (ignore the higher than cheap crap price)

-If you can, set the idle RPM a tad higher and see if that makes a difference (generating a bit more juice for the 1st junction)

If that solved it but you need to set the idlle too high:

-Do "the Drill" is you own and know how to use a multimeter to measure the alternator Resistance and Vac output over the pairs of 3 yellow wires. Let us know what you measure at idle and at 5,000rpm. Normally we do this with the engine well heated up, but your issue happens cold.

With all this measuring out ok, then the ABS unit itself becomes my suspect.

 

 

do post up what you find, in the mean time we'll keep our minds rolling on waddafukishappening :goofy:

 

 

 

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Found 1 case on the Dutch VFR forum where the cable that plugs into the rear wheel sensor had been rubbing on a bolt and had ever so slightly worn through, causing a short and the ABS fuse to blow

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Why not try new brake fluid?  The owner's manual says to do it every two years, so you're due. 

 

I purchased a new 2010 DCT leftover in 2017 and had all kinds of crazy brake problems until a simple brake fluid change.  The fluid was ancient in my case, so the obvious place to start troubleshooting. 

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On 5/20/2018 at 4:59 AM, Oregonian said:

Why not try new brake fluid?  The owner's manual says to do it every two years, so you're due. 

 

I purchased a new 2010 DCT leftover in 2017 and had all kinds of crazy brake problems until a simple brake fluid change.  The fluid was ancient in my case, so the obvious place to start troubleshooting. 

Thanks for your interest sir. I'm reluctant to get into the (messy) fluid change situation just yet especially since the bikes fluid is barely 2 years old. I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that for some reason the signal from one of the sensors is intermittently dropping out. This would maybe explain the  mechanics claim that my tyre pressures were way off the recommended. I've ordered a second-hand (new ones are £150.00!) rear sensor unit off ebay so to start with I'll swap that out.

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On 5/8/2018 at 9:13 PM, tomcatek said:

Under the seat next to the breaker box you have a red service plug. Get service manual and read the fault codes. At least you will know which weel is the issue. Or if it is low power issue.

 

Since you have a DCT be aware that DCT won't change gears if ABS is off.

 

 

Please can you explain '... 'DCT won't change gears if ABS is off.'?

 

 

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9 hours ago, gringo said:

Thanks for your interest sir. I'm reluctant to get into the (messy) fluid change situation just yet especially since the bikes fluid is barely 2 years old. 

 

That fluid has more than likely been in the bike since it was built in 2010...

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Please can you explain '... 'DCT won't change gears if ABS is off.'?

 

 

Well.. I can't write it more clearly then I did.

 

If you will have ABS issue, gearbox will stop reacting to any user manipulation.

- If you will have the ABS problem from the start, only gear that will be available is 1.

- If the problem will occur on higher speeds (when you will drive on e.g. 5th gear) the "+" and "-" and "S/D" buttons will stop reacting. You can drive on current gear, but DCT won't switch the gear up and will reduce the gear only when you will be stopping. Like really stopping. Last 2 or 3 gears will be reduced when bike is stationary.

 

At least this is how my 2010 VFR behave when I had front speed sensor issue.

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10 hours ago, Darrenk said:

 

That fluid has more than likely been in the bike since it was built in 2010...

As I say, the bike was registered here in the UK during year 2016 so probably rolled off the production line in Japan during 2015 making the fluids 3 years old at most.

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3 hours ago, tomcatek said:

Well.. I can't write it more clearly then I did.

 

If you will have ABS issue, gearbox will stop reacting to any user manipulation.

- If you will have the ABS problem from the start, only gear that will be available is 1.

- If the problem will occur on higher speeds (when you will drive on e.g. 5th gear) the "+" and "-" and "S/D" buttons will stop reacting. You can drive on current gear, but DCT won't switch the gear up and will reduce the gear only when you will be stopping. Like really stopping. Last 2 or 3 gears will be reduced when bike is stationary.

 

At least this is how my 2010 VFR behave when I had front speed sensor issue.

Thanks for that. At this time I have no transmission problems.

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Thanks for that. At this time I have no transmission problems.

DCT uses data from ABS modulator on weel speed from Weel Speed Sensors. This is why in my issue I got ABS malfunction and no DCT. If you can change gears, this only means that ABS modulator gets proper data from sensors. So you can assume, that all of them are fine :)

 

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2 hours ago, elgringo said:

Thanks for that. At this time I have no transmission problems.

 

5 hours ago, tomcatek said:

Well.. I can't write it more clearly then I did.

 

If you will have ABS issue, gearbox will stop reacting to any user manipulation.

- If you will have the ABS problem from the start, only gear that will be available is 1.

- If the problem will occur on higher speeds (when you will drive on e.g. 5th gear) the "+" and "-" and "S/D" buttons will stop reacting. You can drive on current gear, but DCT won't switch the gear up and will reduce the gear only when you will be stopping. Like really stopping. Last 2 or 3 gears will be reduced when bike is stationary.

 

At least this is how my 2010 VFR behave when I had front speed sensor issue.

 

 

Upon re-reading your post Tom, I suddenly realized that you're actually describing the problem I encountered with my first 1200FD bike, (a 2014 model) in October last year. I took it to my Honda dealer and they stripped the gearbox out. Last time I looked it was still in pieces in their workshop! They said all they could find was some minor distortion of one of the selector forks!  I got fed-up of waiting for them to fix it so I got myself the latest low-mileage bike I could find; the one I'm now experiencing the ABS problems with. Will I ever learn? lol

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On 5/29/2018 at 3:10 PM, elgringo said:

 

 

 

Upon re-reading your post Tom, I suddenly realized that you're actually describing the problem I encountered with my first 1200FD bike, (a 2014 model) in October last year. I took it to my Honda dealer and they stripped the gearbox out. Last time I looked it was still in pieces in their workshop! They said all they could find was some minor distortion of one of the selector forks!  I got fed-up of waiting for them to fix it so I got myself the latest low-mileage bike I could find; the one I'm now experiencing the ABS problems with. Will I ever learn? lol

 

So you had an obviously electrical/electronic problem with the DCT and they have stripped the motor and gearbox? I think you need to find a different dealer. 

 

Regarding the ABS system and your problem, the ABS ECU ‚Äėruns‚Äô (i.e. powers and reads) the Wheel Speed Sensors, cleans up the signals and passes them on to the main ECU which uses them for the Traction Control and the Rear signal for actual speedo display.¬†

 

In the meantime, the ABS ECU uses those speed signals for its own purposes. There is no other interaction between the 2 ECUs. The main ECU doesn’t know or even care if the ABS ECU is even present. The ABS ECU is autonomous. 

 

Having said that, the DCT could be different, but I doubt it. I’m pretty sure the ABS is the same on both. 

 

It is possible bad tyre pressures could be detected as that would affect tyre circumference and hence rate of rotation, but you now have them set correctly, so can’t be that. 

 

You probably should read read the error codes yourself. There is a simple wire bridge you can make and use that will enable you to read them. Explained in the manual I seem to remember. At least that will give you an idea where to look.

 

If you’re concerned about the electrical connectors, just unplug and re-plug any connector you can find. Can’t do any harm (apart from broken finger nails) and will fix any bad connections.

 

Wheel Speed Sensors can go bad, but replacing with an unknown used one might not help as the replacement could be faulty. 

 

I can’t see it being a battery/charge problem. If the bike turns over and starts, that should suffice, but I guess I wouldn’t notice problems myself as I removed the ABS.

 

Can’t think of anything else right now. 

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Hi there , just a little bit of info on age of your bike , my bike was bought and registered as new in march 2017, but when I contacted Honda Uk and asked them when the bike was manufactured they told me it was manufactured in December 2013 ,I have asked them the same question twice and each time have had the same answer , they also told me that my bike was one of the last they built ( not sure if I'm completely convinced of that )

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2 minutes ago, wolvesvf1000r said:

Hi there , just a little bit of info on age of your bike , my bike was bought and registered as new in march 2017, but when I contacted Honda Uk and asked them when the bike was manufactured they told me it was manufactured in December 2013 ,I have asked them the same question twice and each time have had the same answer , they also told me that my bike was one of the last they built ( not sure if I'm completely convinced of that )

Month and year manufactured should be stamped on the compliance plate!

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7 minutes ago, Grum said:

Month and year manufactured should be stamped on the compliance plate!

 

Different markets have different requirements for that and in any case, only state the model year which is not necessarily the same as year of manufacture as the latter is often in the previous year.

 

Regarding a 2013 manufactured bike (so probably a 2014 model year) being sold in 2017, that doesn't surprise me at all with this model.

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32 minutes ago, BiKenG said:

 

Different markets have different requirements for that and in any case, only state the model year which is not necessarily the same as year of manufacture as the latter is often in the previous year.

 

Regarding a 2013 manufactured bike (so probably a 2014 model year) being sold in 2017, that doesn't surprise me at all with this model.

Interesting stuff BiKenG.

Can assure you the 4 VFRs I've purchased new are certainly stamped with month and year manufactured, surprised to hear that at least year and month of manufacture is not standard. As per below 7/14 for my 8gen. (Vin number edited). Cheers.

 

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6 minutes ago, Grum said:

...Can assure you that the 4 VFRs I've purchased from new are certainly stamped with month and year manufactured, surprised to hear that at least date and month of manufacture is not standard. As per below 7/14 for my 8gen.

 

Well I've never seen the actual manufacturing date marked on the plate like that. Normally you have to go cap in hand to the manufacturer to get that information and Honda UK want £30 (each bike) to do that and provide a dating certificate (sometimes needed for 'Historic' vehicle classification).

 

In the US there's usually a large 4 digit year shown, but that's the model year. I have seen this on bikes in the UK, but I'm not now sure what the actual requirement is here. I just checked two 2012 bikes and can see no plate at all, although I have no recollection of removing them. Where's the plate supposed to be on a 2012 VFR1200F?

 

I like the idea of the month and year of manufacture stamped on all plates. Should be mandatory in all markets. It would really help as the bike ages and also provide a clear understanding to any potential purchaser of how old the bike is, irrespective of when it may have been first registered and used (which is always stated on the registration doc). Not that dealers ever are ever economical with the truth about that.¬†ūüėÄ

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13 minutes ago, BiKenG said:

 

Well I've never seen the actual manufacturing date marked on the plate like that. Normally you have to go cap in hand to the manufacturer to get that information and Honda UK want £30 (each bike) to do that and provide a dating certificate (sometimes needed for 'Historic' vehicle classification).

 

In the US there's usually a large 4 digit year shown, but that's the model year. I have seen this on bikes in the UK, but I'm not now sure what the actual requirement is here. I just checked two 2012 bikes and can see no plate at all, although I have no recollection of removing them. Where's the plate supposed to be on a 2012 VFR1200F?

 

I like the idea of the month and year of manufacture stamped on all plates. Should be mandatory in all markets. It would really help as the bike ages and also provide a clear understanding to any potential purchaser of how old the bike is, irrespective of when it may have been first registered and used (which is always stated on the registration doc). Not that dealers ever are ever economical with the truth about that.¬†ūüėÄ

Hi Ken.

Sorry can't answer where the plate should be on a 2012 VFR1200F, never owned one. That blows me away that you guys don't have that stamped on your bikes. Must be an Australian requirement, our cars are also identified the same with month and year made. Just for info, here's my 2009 6gen built Jan 2009.

Cheers.

 

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