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Preparing for South Dakota in July...

 

So, the last set of sprockets I went with the standard 17/43 setup, due to the fact that I couldn’t find a reasonably priced STEEL rear sprocket in a 46t size.

 

Now, years later, my chain is getting all kinky, so I decided to revisit it and found that PBR now makes one, and the price is right, so I figured I’d give it a whirl.

 

I also discovered that JT makes an 18t rubber bonded cushion type front sprocket, which I like, for noise reduction. Just like the OEM Honda ones. 

 

And to tie them together, I got an EK 530 ZVX3 chain in gold, 110 link. 

 

Now why why would I do this you ask, when the net gearing effect is like 1%?

 

Mainly because my bike has its rear ride height maxed out, and I’d like to keep the chain as far away from the swingarm as possible. And also for longevity. 

 

More sprocket teeth = longer component life, all else being equal. 

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https://www.gearingcommander.com

 

You can enter in you gearing with chain length and will give you lots of info including how the chain will wear in relation. 

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OK just had a crazy thought, has anyone ever tried turning there chain over ? 

By that I mean one side is always in contact with the sprockets & they never get bend the other way much past the straight position !

If you removed the soft link & flipped the chain so it was inside out & put a new soft link in what would be the result ?

 

Just thinking out loud here, this is not when its worn out, but maybe half worn ! the wear should all be on the inner surface of the chain so now there is sort of new or at least little worn parts inside the rollers !  Would the chain last longer, would it be smoother.  Re the gearing commander wear characteristics, simply removing chain from rear sprocket & rolling it forward a dozen links would reset the wear point !

 

Just a crazy thought !

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An old dirt bikers trick was to reverse the sprockets, but I haven’t heard of anyone flipping the chain...

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Roller chain  right    .....

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Rob, d'ya reckon you only need one extra link per added sprocket tooth? That makes sense  but somehow or other I assumed that the different diameter might complicate the count.

 

I was surprised to see that the various generations of sssa VFRs use different chain lengths.

3rd & 4th gen VFR750: 112 links

5th gen VFR800: 108 links

6th gen VFR800 (VTec): 110 links

8th gen VFR800: 110

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6 hours ago, Mohawk said:

OK just had a crazy thought, has anyone ever tried turning there chain over ? 

 

Just a crazy thought !

 

Reversing the sprockets makes some sense because the teeth wear asymmetrically. But the rollers on a chain distribute the wear pretty much evenly so not much to be gained, methinks. 

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13 hours ago, Mohawk said:

OK just had a crazy thought, has anyone ever tried turning there chain over  

 

 

Maybe new sprockets and master link and flip the chain?

 

I have a question, is there a preferred location for the eccentric? I run it at the lower left corner for shorter wheel base and taller, is there an optimal position??

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14 hours ago, Lorne said:

Rob, d'ya reckon you only need one extra link per added sprocket tooth? That makes sense  but somehow or other I assumed that the different diameter might complicate the count.

 

I was surprised to see that the various generations of sssa VFRs use different chain lengths.

3rd & 4th gen VFR750: 112 links

5th gen VFR800: 108 links

6th gen VFR800 (VTec): 110 links

8th gen VFR800: 110

 

Lorne, I ran the numbers through a site I found online (not gearing commander) and figured the chain length will be 110 links. 

 

Also so if you take the total number of teeth, subtract old from new, and divide by two (because the chain only contacts half the sprocket at a time) you get this:

 

17+43=60

18+46=64

 

64-60=4

4/2=2

 

so +2 links

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I remember reading that the 6th gen had an increased swing arm length over the 5th gen, sure it was 5mm?

Guess that's why it got 2 extra links!

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1 hour ago, manoil said:

I remember reading that the 6th gen had an increased swing arm length over the 5th gen, sure it was 5mm?

Guess that's why it got 2 extra links!

I forget the exact number, but it did increase by 2 links. 8th Gen is the same as 6th, they even mount the same and are basically interchangeable.

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On May 3, 2018 at 8:09 AM, Mohawk said:

OK just had a crazy thought, has anyone ever tried turning there chain over ? 

By that I mean one side is always in contact with the sprockets & they never get bend the other way much past the straight position !

If you removed the soft link & flipped the chain so it was inside out & put a new soft link in what would be the result ?

 

Just thinking out loud here, this is not when its worn out, but maybe half worn ! the wear should all be on the inner surface of the chain so now there is sort of new or at least little worn parts inside the rollers !  Would the chain last longer, would it be smoother.  Re the gearing commander wear characteristics, simply removing chain from rear sprocket & rolling it forward a dozen links would reset the wear point !

 

Just a crazy thought !

 

Changing my gearing with newer chain, so considered turning chain over, but the rollers rotate not sure if its worth the try??

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7 hours ago, gig said:

 

Changing my gearing with newer chain, so considered turning chain over, but the rollers rotate not sure if its worth the try??

 

Yep, completely pointless.

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On 5/4/2018 at 9:38 AM, manoil said:

I remember reading that the 6th gen had an increased swing arm length over the 5th gen, sure it was 5mm?

Guess that's why it got 2 extra links!

The 6th Gen is 20mm longer in wheelbase & as all other components appear to be the same, I think you will find the swingarm is 20mm longer !

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8 hours ago, gig said:

 

Changing my gearing with newer chain, so considered turning chain over, but the rollers rotate not sure if its worth the try??

 

This was NOT any kind of recommendation, but just a crazy idea that popped into my head, it happens sometimes ! :)

 

If we look at the construction of a modern chain, then the outer link side plates & joining pins are fixed. The inner link, has a bearing tube which rides on the outer links pin. The tube also has the seals to keep lube in the inner pin/tube bearing surface. The tube also has  a roller on the outside effectively as a sacrificial surface, that contacts the sprocket teeth. 

 

Now we know the anatomy, then a chain can only stretch through wear on the pin & tube of the joining links, wear on the outer roller does NOT contribute to chain wear, but does to sprocket wear ! The load path through the chain means that one side of the pin & tube has all the wear !  It also generally appears on only one side of each component & ONE outer edge, as the chain always runs in one direction. By outer edge, I mean the side loaded as the chain changes direction around the drive sprocket. So if you reversed the circulation direction of the chain BEFORE its worn out (as in 50% life), then you effectively have the same wear in length, but NOT on the outer edge which should in (my crazy) theory reduce the wear rate ! 

 

As I said a crazy idea & more academic than practical, but I'd love to see a test result to see if there was any noticeable difference in wear or smoothness of operation.

 

YMMV :)

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I can see your logic, and I did think about it, but I just don't think its worth the hassle for net gain.

Yes in theory, the pins do also wear, but I think most of the wear happens in the outer side of the roller.

Consider it your next project 🙂 and report back.

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The outer roller has nothing to do with the chains length only the side plates (stretch) inner pin (wear) inner bushing or tube (wear). I'll have to pass on that project as I have neither the time nor money to waste on two new chains, a fixed drive system & the power to run it 20-30k miles !

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Another option is to measure with calipers the distance between outer edges of 2 rollers of one link with a bit of pressure on new versus old chain.

You're pobably right that the strech is in the link itself, if it is turning it over is not going to achieve much.

Either way, it's a lot easier to just get new chain and sprockets.

The other thing to consider is how long some chains last on those that use Scott oilers, is that because of less sprocket wear or outer roller wear?

 

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Mohawk and VFROZ, you guys owe me, or maybe we are now even.

I tested the reversed chain theory today. Sorry not scientifically, just layman tested. I have always changed the chain and sprockets at the same time. The deciding factor being sprocket wear. Last year I tried a gearing I did not like and after 500 miles changed. Having the rear sprocket from this trial a year later I bought a new front sprocket and chain thinking the 500 mile steel sprocket would be fine. After mounting I had a very noticeable tight spot. I turned the sprocket over, no tight spot.

I changed sprockets this year with 848 conversion. I bought two new sprockets and reused a very high quality chain with  approx 3,000 miles on it., with no tight spots.

I was changing gearing again today with the same now 5,000 mile chain and two new sprockets. I now had tight spot. I had an extra master link, from the time before I had over tightened  the master and had to order a new one, 'ordered 2"'. This is where we are even. I am trying to get to Tmac tomorrow "rain permitting", so trying to decide if I wanted to chance f-ing up this one master link as before, to test the chain theory, "felt like the test needed to be done on new sprockets", or leave it as,  to be sure to get to Tmac. A fifteen minute job, took me an hour & half, with every small turn of the chain tool, I had to measure and re-measure, making sure everything was lined up. Once I had reversed the direction, I checked and then tightened to be sure I could feel any difference in tension though many rotations. I could not, there are no tight spots what so ever. Again this was by no means measured; but there was a tight spot, then when reversed, no tight spot. FYI

  

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Well I’ll be buggered. 

Nothing like a scientific approach.

I was thinking about it after my last post and thought the stretch might not be in the plates themselves, but wear on the inner pin and roller would cause chain to get longer. 

Considering my last chain lasted me 50,000km, I probably couldn’t be  bothered doing anything about it though. 

Now time to start testing car oil on your bike Gig, and report back 😉

 

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Yes the rear sprocket is not fully bolted up 

 

Yes I did finish it properly

 

18/46 sprockets in da house

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Will be doing this at my next chain change. Thanks Canuck! 

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Might be a bit off-the-wall question, but, did you ensure the countershaft sprocket was completely tight on the output shaft?

 

I’m needing a replacement, bought a Sunstar as a replacement, and it’s too thin. The output shaft actually protrudes beyond the sprocket. Obviously, I need another, thicker replacement and am looking at JT. Thanks!

DA2F13B7-3A64-4354-BFF8-2CF8B4C7B919.jpeg

 

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There's nothing wrong with that sprocket, the sprocket should be thinner than the length of the shaft. A little lateral movement

is fine, you just don't want any axial movement. Also lube up the splines good with anti-sieze before installing the sprocket.

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