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6th Gen VFR800 Large black plastic looking shavings in coolant


whitemamba

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Hello all Veefer lovers!

 

I have a feeling that you might find this interesting, so please read on. There is a question at the end.

 

2009 VFR800. Bought in 2013 with 1300 miles on it (prev owner bought it in 2011 brand new/zero miles) .

Below issues may seem separate topics but I believe they were all related.

 

First issue: In 2014, overheated during Toys for Tots Parade in Chicago in December (weather in the 30's). Flushed the coolant. All good.

 

Then, in 2017, again the weather was 30 degree, after a gathering with friends, I started the Veefer to return home and it was cold idling at above 3000 and never came down below 2500 that evening.

 

After investigating, I found out that the plastic head of one of the the starter valves was broken (see the picture with red circle). Replaced it and did the valve sync but the high idling at cold start didn't go away. It took about 15 minutes or so to normalize at 1200 rpm. I got suspicious about wax idle unit being clogged at the water hoses and I was right. I unclogged them (did it without removing the throttle body. Disconnected the hoses at the other ends (not the wax unit connections) and stuck a wire in the hoses to unclog the hole at the bottom of the wax unit and it worked!). A 30 mm x 2 mm black wrapped plastic shaving looking piece came out when I blew from the end of the left side hose (see the right bottom of the other picture. I broke the 30 mm long piece to investigate). Ouch... Then of course I was sure that there might be more, and I was right. I removed all the hoses that are visible between the radiators and the water pump etc. Guess what, inside the raditors' bottom nipples, where the large hoses are attached, had a lot more of the black shavings/pieces (shown in the pic). Cleaned all up and flushed and re-flushed and refilled with proper coolant mixture. Now everything works as it should. 2-3 minutes at 2000'ish rpm at cold start (ambient temp in the mid 30's this morning), then back to 1200! Yay.. Just to be clear, I inspected all the hoses and the "Y" connection, except the long hose that connects the stat housing to the fill neck, since it was unreachable. All in great shape. 

 

Now the question: WHAT ARE THOSE BLACK SHAVINGS/PIECES? something inside the radiators perhaps? They feel like plastic shavings. They do not crumble, nor they feel like rubber from the hoses. Since I don't know where they come from, there might be more. 

 

BTW, I still can't figure out why the plastic head of one of the the starter valves was broken. Any idea?

 

Thank you folks and enjoy the ride!

IMG_5328.jpg

IMG_2896.jpg

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Don't see how bits of starter valve can get into coolant but!!

Not sure but does the coolant pump have plastic impellers?

other than that can only think of hose delamination?

 

Or an unhappy worker at factory or shop who did PDI?

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Manoil,

 

I wasn't trying to state that the pieces of starter valve was in the coolant. There was no missing pieces of the valve when I replaced it.

 

Since I bought it at 1300 miles, I don't see the bike being at the shop but I can ask the prev owner.

 

I wonder if the radiators have any plastics in them since most of the pieces I found were stuck at the lower radiator hose nipple. But I wouldn't rule out the unhappy factory worker 🙂 

Also, the water pump has aluminum impeller inside...

 

Cheers!

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Could it be some sort of cabin-like buildup flaking off from the inside? Like decoking?

 

Or, could there be some oil seeping into the coolant and reacting? Just a guess. 

 

Or, could it be bits of your coolant cap rubber deteriorating? Have you had a look underneath the cap? 

 

Stray 

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When I played with my 6g radiator hose that connects the 2 at the top,  I noticed that the inside of the radiator necks are painted black and that black paint was flaking off.

Could these black paint flakes be the culprit?

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1 hour ago, boOZZIE said:

When I played with my 6g radiator hose that connects the 2 at the top,  I noticed that the inside of the radiator necks are painted black and that black paint was flaking off.

Could these black paint flakes be the culprit?

What a stupid thing for Honda to do! Why paint the inside of an aluminium tube? 

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There are only two plastic pieces within the coolant system that I am aware of, the overflow bottle that is clear/ white so probably not that and the tube that the radiator cap fits onto and then connects to the right hand radiator and outlet pipe from the thermostat. Can you remove that piece, three radiator hose clamps, and inspect it to see if it has started to break down.? All other components are either aluminium or rubber. The thermostat is steel with a copper wax unit so no plastic in there. The water pump has a metal impeller. 

 

WRT the starter valve, it looks like the plastic nut has been pushed out of the throttle body by the spring?  Have you tried pushing it back in to see if it will click back into place? It may be that it was not fitted correctly at the factory but I would suspect this is not the case. I think if it will not click back into place, and also stay there during operation, you will have to get a second hand throttle body as there are no spares for this part. 

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To me it looks like the starter valve has come undone from the TB.

What you can see is the thread, not a spring.

You just need to screw that plastic nut back in again.

The adjuster moves independently from that nut.

As for the plastic, it looks like something was dropped in there accidently and got chewed up by the impeller.

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3 hours ago, Stray said:

Could it be some sort of cabin-like buildup flaking off from the inside? Like decoking?

 

Or, could there be some oil seeping into the coolant and reacting? Just a guess. 

 

Or, could it be bits of your coolant cap rubber deteriorating? Have you had a look underneath the cap? 

 

Stray 

Stray, all good points but:

 

No oil seepage.

Cap was in very good condition when it first overheated in 2014 but then,  I've changed it with a new one anyway. It is still in new condition as of now.

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3 hours ago, boOZZIE said:

When I played with my 6g radiator hose that connects the 2 at the top,  I noticed that the inside of the radiator necks are painted black and that black paint was flaking off.

Could these black paint flakes be the culprit?

boOZZIE,

 

I also thought abut the paint inside the radiator nipples but these pieces are more plastic feeling than paint. But maybe paint reacted with coolant and changed texture?

And yes, such a bad idea to paint those nipples.

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1 hour ago, Marooncobra said:

There are only two plastic pieces within the coolant system that I am aware of, the overflow bottle that is clear/ white so probably not that and the tube that the radiator cap fits onto and then connects to the right hand radiator and outlet pipe from the thermostat. Can you remove that piece, three radiator hose clamps, and inspect it to see if it has started to break down.? All other components are either aluminium or rubber. The thermostat is steel with a copper wax unit so no plastic in there. The water pump has a metal impeller. 

 

WRT the starter valve, it looks like the plastic nut has been pushed out of the throttle body by the spring?  Have you tried pushing it back in to see if it will click back into place? It may be that it was not fitted correctly at the factory but I would suspect this is not the case. I think if it will not click back into place, and also stay there during operation, you will have to get a second hand throttle body as there are no spares for this part. 

Great points Marooncobra.

Actually there are three plastic parts. In addition to the two you stated, there is also a "Y" that connects three bottom hoses. I've checked all three plastic parts. All in good shape.

 

The started valve: As one can see from my original post, the head of the nut was sheered off. Not pushed out. Here is a picture of a new nut for comparison. The part is sold as "Starter Valve Set" and it costs $30+shipping. The nut comes with the set.

IMG_2920.JPG

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1 hour ago, VFROZ said:

To me it looks like the starter valve has come undone from the TB.

What you can see is the thread, not a spring.

You just need to screw that plastic nut back in again.

The adjuster moves independently from that nut.

As for the plastic, it looks like something was dropped in there accidently and got chewed up by the impeller.

VFROZ,

 

There is a chance that something was dropped in before me or during production. I am leaning towards your idea.

 

For starter valve, please refer to my response below. What you see in the original post is actually the spring. The head of the nut sheered off for some reason. Cheers!

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Whitemamba

 

Forgot the y piece as I have replaced all hoses with Samco silicon and that is a one piece 2 x radiators to water pump hose

 

From seeing the replacement part I would suggest that it was either:

 

1. Over tightened in the factory and stressed it,

2. The plastic nut had a fault in it during manufacture

3. Previous owner has overtightened it - Why? As it isn’t part of the sync process

4. Has become brittle through overheating

 

I didnt think the stealership sold these, but it has saved you some cash.  I suspect you may need to remove the TB to get access to replace that, in which case you may want to replace the thermostat as it will be exposed.

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As good as Honda's quality control is, I agree with the posts above that  it's possible something plastic was dropped in to the cooling system upon assembly.  For example, I wouldn't be surprised if the rads or other components are shipped to them with plastic caps over the openings to keep debris out or similar.   The plastic looks to me like it's been shredded and the impeller in the pump would do a good job of that.  The random overheating could be the plastic occasionally collecting at a choke point such as the T-stat.  Now that it's out, hopefully the issue is resolved and you'll enjoy trouble free riding from here on. 

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2 hours ago, whitemamba said:

VFROZ,

 

There is a chance that something was dropped in before me or during production. I am leaning towards your idea.

 

For starter valve, please refer to my response below. What you see in the original post is actually the spring. The head of the nut sheered off for some reason. Cheers!

 

You're right, that's a bugger, the TB's will have to come out to replace.

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