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Mechanical wizards needed (handlebar conversion)


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Hi VFR owners and enthusiasts,

will you please help me with my dilemma?
I saved up some money to put into my VFR (Fi 01) and I have bought a few upgrades for it (future birthday gifts, you know). I wanted bars and stuff that goes along with it 😀 so I got :
-LSL superbike handlebars conversion kit (+some bar weights to go with them...I want to keep the stock ones in case I want to return to original form)
-Fren Tubo custom braided brake line kit (longer to be able to route them "stock" way even with higher bars)
-New steering head bearings ("tapered" set from Tourmax to rid me of old sticky "balls" I've got...😁No pun intended, when I first wrote this)
-New (read longer) throttle cables (from 1100 PanEuropean) to keep the cable routing original
-And finally new chain and sprockets

I've got several questions for people who have done similar mods or just have more experience than me, please.
I can do the handlebar conversion by myself BUT I cannot do the other "supporting" mods because I lack tools and experience with them (riveter for the chain and I definetely cannot bleed empty brake lines without tools or set the bearings properly without messing up)

1) In which order should I tackle the mods? All at once, or in small portions?

2) If I give this job to a mechanic, how much should I expect to pay? (maybe I could work with him and help him? )

3) Clutch hose was promised by supplier of the LSL kit but none arrived, when I contacted him he said it is a mistake on his web (confirmed by LSL that they do not supply the lines)... I want to do the mods with the stock line which should be possible... If I have to change the line, I will go with braided line as it has to be cheaper than OEM Honda line which costs more than 100$ here. The question is: "Are there any differences between hydraulic clutch line and brake lines/ fittings? Which fluid is used? My guess is it is hydraulic but haven't checked the manual yet.

4) Should I watch out for some specific problems?/ Should the mechanic be prepared for something? He services my friends Varadero (also linked brakes, similar year of manufacture) which he rebuild after a nasty crash from bottom up and he knows his stuff so I trust him but still... VFRs have their specific needs

5) I own the bike for a short time so I don't know much about previous service history. Should I clean the calipers even though they work fine just because the brake lines will be apart?

I will definetly remember something right after I post this so thank you in advance for your help and please have patience with me.

Martin

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I don't think there is anything VFR specific to watch out for. If he knows motorcycles, then it shouldn't be an issue. If he is familiar with linked brakes, then that shouldn't be an issue. Actually, the front secondary master cylinder might be a VFR specific thing, since I don't know how Varadero linked brakes work. It's part of the front left (clutch lever side) brake caliper, and needs to be "worked" when bleeding. Wouldn't hurt to bring along the service manual, if you have it.

Definitely clean the calipers if they are coming off. They build up brake dust around the pistons that can be difficult to remove if left on for a long time. When the pistons are pushed back with new pads, the ring gets pushed past the seals and can affect lever feel and possibly damage the seals.

Clutch lines are exactly the same as brake lines, and use the same fluid. DOT4 is recommended.

I've used my VFR and other bikes to teach myself maintenance and overall bike work over the years. I ended up buying tools along the way as I needed them. Things like a vacuum brake bleeder, chain riveting tool, air compressor and air tools. 

The chain can be done by having it cut (108 links? I think?) and riveted at the shop and then installing it at home. It does require some large sockets to remove the swingarm pivot nut on the right side. Then the pivot bolt can be slid out a couple inches and the left foot peg bracket moved out of the way. Then the chain can be removed intact.

Head bearings aren't that difficult. I've never owned a proper bearing driver. I have an old bearing race with a notch cut into it for the races on the steering head, and some large diameter sockets. For the stem bearings, I think I used the old one as a driver with a length of pipe to fit over the stem. There are various DIY posts on here, I'm sure, to help you out if you decide to try it.

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12 hours ago, KevCarver said:

needs to be "worked" when bleeding

Is it the part that pushes in when I start breaking the front and activates the rear brake?

12 hours ago, KevCarver said:

Wouldn't hurt to bring along the service manual, if you have it.

I do have it and I will bring it to him.

12 hours ago, KevCarver said:

Definitely clean the calipers if they are coming off.

Um...When I asked on VFRWorld I got the opposite answer 😁 . My slightly OCD side wants the brakes rebuild but the greedy me want to skip this step and ride the bike already... Soo, Is it possible to half-ass the job by, for example, just removing the pistons. Checking them for issues, re-grease and put back together?
I don't even know if this is possible but could it to the trick and avoid seal damage?

12 hours ago, KevCarver said:

Clutch lines are exactly the same as brake lines, and use the same fluid.

Thank you, as I said on VFRWorld... This is new information for me so thank you very much for it!

12 hours ago, KevCarver said:

The chain can be done by having it cut (108 links? I think?) and riveted at the shop and then installing it at home.

I have ordered the chain online and it is not riveted at the moment so I think I'm going to give the chain job to the mechanic and buy a riveter for my future jobs when I have some money to spare. 

12 hours ago, KevCarver said:

There are various DIY posts on here, I'm sure, to help you out if you decide to try it.

Thanks for the offer 😊. I have read the posts and it seems doable for me and I really want to try it. On the other hand I'm worried about the VFR. I don't want to damage anything or mess up because I like it too much 😁.

 

Anyway, thank you very much for your answers. You gave me a lot to think about.

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Yes on the first question.

Of course you can leave out the cleaning of the caliper pistons. You don't have to do anything to any of it. Never change your oil again, either. I've never ridden your bike, or even seen it, so I have no idea of the condition. I'm just telling you what I would do. 

The absolute minimum you should do is; with the brake lines still attached, remove the caliper from the fork, and pump the lever several times to extend the pistons. It is absolutely impossible to over extend the pistons with the pads in place. And then look at the pistons. If there is any buildup at all on the pistons, you want to clean them. An old toothbrush and some kind of degreaser cleaner will work fine. If it's not coming off, then you may need to completely disassemble them. But hopefully it will clean off without that. 

The only things to re-grease would be the slide pins, and they probably need it by now.

I bought a Pacific Coast years ago that had very poor initial braking. Felt like the pads were made of wood. With a little more lever pressure, it would suddenly pop that built up ring of crud past the seal and then give full brake pressure. 

Looks like you have the rest of it under control, and now you know why I never bother to post or read VFRWorld...

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3 hours ago, KevCarver said:

I'm just telling you what I would do. 

That's why I'm asking and thanking you again. I needed a little push to do the calipers. ☺️
Regarding the condition of the bike....Bought it few months ago as my first "big" motorcycle. I live in a block of flats and my garage is public so it is rather hard to work on the bike but so far I've changed the oil, oil filter, flushed the radiators+ gave it new fluid, got VFRness and added all the missing bolts (few plastic fairing screws were missing) and changed non-oem bolts and nuts holding rear sprocket for Honda originals.
The bike is pretty mint actually...  I didn't touch the brakes because I had planned on this upgrade ever since I'bought the bike.
Pads are thick and the PO gave the motorcycle to well known mechanic (PO personally didn't do maintenance and he said it before I bought the bike so I knew the chain had to go)
I wanted to do some work on it to get to know it better and start my own service intervals rather than continue based on what the PO had written down (from what I've gathered you should take everything the PO claims with reservation 😀)

3 hours ago, KevCarver said:

The absolute minimum you should do is

I could probably do that on my own! Thanks for the tip. I can at least take a look..
BTW: How would I push the pistons back in without damaging them? Is flat head screwdriver OK? (because it seems a bit harsh to me)
I'll ask the mechanic to check the calipers thoroughly anyway if there is anything "dirty" down there.

3 hours ago, KevCarver said:

the slide pins

I had to google those as I've never heard about them (previous bike had drums even at the front 😀😀 ).

Are they the same thing as "guide pins"?

3 hours ago, KevCarver said:

it would suddenly pop that built up ring of crud past the seal and then give full brake pressure. 

That sounds nasty. I wouldnť feel comfortable on bike which did this. Luckily the brakes are really smooth from what I can tell from riders seat.

3 hours ago, KevCarver said:

Looks like you have the rest of it under control, and now you know why I never bother to post or read VFRWorld

Thank you but I have ideas without any real experience to back them up so I need someone to "back me up" if you know what I mean.
WFRworld doesn't seem all bad to me. One of the post there got me closer to VFRs ( http://vfrworld.com/threads/refurbishing-my-99-5th-gen.52488/ ) but people here seem to be much more active and I respect that.

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I would guess that the guide pin is the same as the slide pin, but I'm not sure. It's the only thing you would grease on a brake caliper. There is a little rubber boot to keep the grease in and water/dust out. I've always heard it said as slide pin. 

I wouldn't be worried about a large flat blade screwdriver between the back of the pad and the piston. Just go easy.

 

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1. In order of most needed first. One at a time.


2. That's going to take time. It's not hard work, but takes a few hours.

 

If you can confidently do it yourself you can save a large chunk of money.

C&S approx 1hr
Bar kit 1hr
Cable routing 2hr
Brake line routing 2hr
Brake bleed and assemble 2hr+
Head bearings 1hr
Throttle cable 1hr

Total hours: 10


Assuming nothing goes wrong/other issues in the way/You have supplied the correct parts

I'd imagine it might take a little longer depending how experienced the mechanic is.
I'm basing this very roughly off my workshop experience.


For reference; We charge £45/hr +20% tax/VAT. So your 10 hours minimum time would cost you at least £540

 

And No. 99.9% of workshops will not let you help to save money. It's not about saving you money, they will have to watch over you, instruct you, tell you where tools are or how to use them, fix your mistakes, and that's without considering liability insurance concerns. It'd take longer with you helping.

 

3. It's all the same.

 

4. Not really, but know that there are a lot of junctions with a linked brake system which will push the time and cost up. And it all has to work perfectly.

 

5. Maintaining the callipers is always a good thing, especially the rear as it tends to get ignored (easiest to service with the rear wheel off). Know that you might have/want to replace the calliper seals/rings or even the pads while you're getting all of this done. (Use EBC FA261HH on all).

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16 hours ago, hellindustries said:

. In order of most needed first. One at a time.

I designed a full schedule during the time I was chatting with Kevcarver 😁

16 hours ago, hellindustries said:

If you can confidently do it yourself you can save a large chunk of money

That's what I'm aiming for, I want to do it by myself BUT I am not confident with bleeding and changing the bearing so those two jobs will have to be done by the mechanic. I'll tackle the rest by myself. Bars first, than supporting mods.

Thank you for the estimate BTW, it was a huge help.
 

16 hours ago, hellindustries said:

And it all has to work perfectly

Yes, exactly. 

16 hours ago, hellindustries said:

Know that you might have/want to replace the calliper seals

If that is the case it will have to be done after payday. The kits are about 100$ but I will gladly pay it if needed.
On other hand I don't think it is going to be necessary. The PO gave the bike to a really good mechanic so my hopes are up ☺️
We'll see.

 

17 hours ago, hellindustries said:

(Use EBC FA261HH on all

Those are sintered metal pads, right? Aren't they a bit overkill for the VFR? I would have bought semi-sintered if you didn't write this.

Can you please tell me why go sintered over semi-sintered on the VFR?

 

One more thing, I sometime find the brakes have too much power to them 😀. Especially in very slow sped manoeuvres on parking lot. (sometimes I am practicing the routines required to pass the A licence in the garage)

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On 4/26/2018 at 8:25 PM, KevCarver said:

Varadero linked brakes

Just FYI. I asked my friend about the brakes and they seem to be exactly the same. At least in setup and the way they work. He doesn't know about pistons etc.

Still this COULD be a good source for parts as Varadero bits and pieces are half the price compared to VFRs (form the same era)

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5 hours ago, SportTouringCZ said:

Just FYI. I asked my friend about the brakes and they seem to be exactly the same. At least in setup and the way they work. He doesn't know about pistons etc.

Still this COULD be a good source for parts as Varadero bits and pieces are half the price compared to VFRs (form the same era)

That would be good. Check out any online parts dealers to see if you can get part numbers to compare. I'm pretty sure that Honda never brought the Varadero to the US. I think we never got the Africa Twin until the recent re-launch either. But I could be wrong, since it's not a motorcycle type I've ever followed.

I've always used the HH pads on all bikes. 

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27 minutes ago, KevCarver said:

That would be good.

I searched site which sells OEM parts and the part numbers are different. Same number of pistons but the construction is slightly different.

So no good news, unfortunatelly.

btw: What a shame, it seems to be well suited for American market.

30 minutes ago, KevCarver said:

I've always used the HH pads on all bikes

I've read up on them and it seems that the increased wear on the rotors I've been worried about isn't that dramatic so I'm going to listen to your advice and go EBC in the future. (as I said ATM. the pads are in good condition)

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Well, with proper sintered pads it seems to me that there's less degradation from weathering. I've had plenty of bikes across my bench at work with pads in terrible shape, but lots of pad left on them. Some have split in two, others are rusted to hell. Some have worn into the disc etc... You rarely see this on sintered pads. They also work better when hot or cold, where cheap pads will feel wooden when cold, and tend not to work well when too hot.

Sintered pads are better than organic/Kevlar/cheap pads in every way. They really are worth the little extra money. Brand is a personal choice, but i only run EBC on my bikes, and we put EBC pads in the bikes at work.

The EBC pads are some of the best you can get for the bike for road use. Considering the small price difference between EBC and cheaper pads, you may as well get the best for the sake of a little cash.

 

As for your sharp brakes: I have the opposite problem. I wish mine were sharper and stronger. I just don't want to spend the money on braided steel lines, and i really should bleed the brakes this year - My 40,000 mile service is just under 3000 miles away, so i might leave it until then, as it'll have to be done as part of that service anyway.

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On 4/30/2018 at 8:24 PM, hellindustries said:

The EBC pads are some of the best you can get for the bike for road use.

Few days ago I found out that VFR 800 5th gen pads should be sintered from factory... Soooo I am not going to argue with mr. Honda and his engineers. (*Edit: And with you guys, of course! )
As for the EBC. They are on the "to do" list and I'll get them when the time comes.

On 4/30/2018 at 8:24 PM, hellindustries said:

As for your sharp brakes: I have the opposite problem.

It may have just been me. I've been riding a lot and have gotten used to the brakes. Even the slow-speed maneouvres have improved in a huge way. Maybe just the jump from "old" to "new" motorcycle (2001 is new for me if you wanted to know ☺️ )... It seems I have been using too much power with my leg, now I just lightly touch the lever and everything is all right. The VFR is just lovely!

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Do the ST1100 throttle cables work with a bar conversion?  I am doing VF1000 clip-ons and had to get some of these ordered as I found the stock cables too short.  Now I am thinking about a full bar conversion possibly instead.

 

-Joel.

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Hi, I found this in a thread somewhere on VFRdiscussion. I cannot however confirm this as a fact as my car had died on me and the conversion money went somewhere else.

Give me a week or two to earn some money for the mechanic and I 'll post photos of finished product (and tell you if the cables are long enough) 

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