house Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Maybe this belongs in the electrical thread, but I wasn't sure. Haven't been on for a bit but wanted to pitch this out there before a pay a dealer to resolve. Whenever I hit the front or rear brakes on my 07, the dash gauges instantly lose power and the bike will shut down about 15 seconds later (due to low or no power.) I have a Rowe Electronics PDM60 installed with a few farkles, but nothing major. I disconnected the Rowe, bought a new battery (the existing battery is only 2 years old and a Shorai LFX Battery - LFX19A4-BS12,) charged it up with the Shorai charger, but got the same results. Never seen anything quite like this... got any ideas? I have been travelling a ton and the bike has been down for a few months since I'm not around. I sure do miss riding it :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFRbeliever Posted April 13, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 13, 2018 Loose ground in rear brake light? Kickstand killswitch loose? Handbrake switch shorting out? Killswitch malfunction? With the gauges disappearing, I would start running down the switches/grounds/connections. I'm not an electronics wizard and can't help with specifics, but if that were my bike, that's where I would start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 14, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2018 On 14 April 2018 at 12:11 AM, house said: Maybe this belongs in the electrical thread, but I wasn't sure. Haven't been on for a bit but wanted to pitch this out there before a pay a dealer to resolve. Whenever I hit the front or rear brakes on my 07, the dash gauges instantly lose power and the bike will shut down about 15 seconds later (due to low or no power.) I have a Rowe Electronics PDM60 installed with a few farkles, but nothing major. I disconnected the Rowe, bought a new battery (the existing battery is only 2 years old and a Shorai LFX Battery - LFX19A4-BS12,) charged it up with the Shorai charger, but got the same results. Never seen anything quite like this... got any ideas? I have been travelling a ton and the bike has been down for a few months since I'm not around. I sure do miss riding it :( Hi House. Assume you are not blowing any fuses? Can you replicate this in the garage, have your bike running in neutral, activate a brake and do you loose your instruments and the bike dies? The bike dying after 15 secs might be the fuel pump no longer running in the fault condition, engine dies once fuel pressure fades away. Did it start to do this after a recent Farkle install? Does the bike simply restart and return to normal with no brakes applied? Do you have a good circuit diagram? If you are NOT blowing fuses, you most likely have a bad ground issue. Would have a real good look at the common ground points - make sure these are o.k and bonded back to the battery Neg terminal. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer carlitos92 Posted April 14, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Grum said: Can you replicate this in the garage, have your bike running in neutral, activate a brake and do you loose your instruments and the bike dies? This is a good one. You want to find out if this is motion-related (i.e. the bike pitching forward upon braking is breaking a circuit). Also good thinking about the fuel pump. It sounds like a short to me, but who knows where it is. Do any fuses ever blow when this happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer manoil Posted April 14, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2018 I would check all earth locations then would open all connectors in the front/fairing and around handlebars and clean with contact cleaner first; if it persists then look for problems in specific areas mentioned above. As suggested try moving cables looms while engine is running with and without each brake switch made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer manoil Posted April 14, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 14, 2018 Just a thought, is your bike diving more under braking? are you losing fork oil and maybe stretching a cable around the front end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
house Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 4/13/2018 at 8:08 PM, Grum said: Hi House. Assume you are not blowing any fuses? Can you replicate this in the garage, have your bike running in neutral, activate a brake and do you loose your instruments and the bike dies? The bike dying after 15 secs might be the fuel pump no longer running in the fault condition, engine dies once fuel pressure fades away. Did it start to do this after a recent Farkle install? Does the bike simply restart and return to normal with no brakes applied? Do you have a good circuit diagram? If you are NOT blowing fuses, you most likely have a bad ground issue. Would have a real good look at the common ground points - make sure these are o.k and bonded back to the battery Neg terminal. Good Luck. I can replicate on a set of stands in the garage, so I don't think it's a problem with the travel of the forks. I feel certain it's electrical... the gauges lose power, the headlights go out, then the engine doesn't have enough electrical umph to keep the fuel injection or pump going... so it dies. No new farkles on this bike for over a year (In know, hard to believe on my bike.) I even disconnected all of them (they are all connected to the Rowe) to see if I had a loose connection to one of them and it still happens. Bike does not return to normal as a brand new fully charged battery is discharged in seconds, so I have to either jump it or recharge. I don't have any blown stock fuses and the Rowe (when hooked up) does not trip anything. It's really strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted April 17, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 17, 2018 I would suggest that you check the wiring for the front brake light switch as it is possible to pinch the wires/spade terminals against the handlebar if the master is rotated down too far. My guess is that this is leading to a short when the brake switch is closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 17, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 17, 2018 13 hours ago, house said: Bike does not return to normal as a brand new fully charged battery is discharged in seconds, so I have to either jump it or recharge. I don't have any blown stock fuses and the Rowe (when hooked up) does not trip anything. It's really strange "A fully charged battery is discharged in seconds" man that is hard to believe in a situation where you've hit either the rear OR front brake lever! You should at least be blowing Fuse E 10amp. Your Fuses are there to protect the wiring, a short capable of killing a fully charge battery in seconds should be raising smoke!!!! Are you sure its a Fully charged healthy battery?? As Terry suggested you could have a short to ground on the Front Brake switch, BUT this should definetly take out the above mentioned Fuse!!!! Are you sure your wiring is stock standard? Apart from the PDM60. Suggest you remove the main positive wire to your PDM60, ensure your bike is back to standard wiring and start fault finding from this starting point. The fact you are pulling heavy currents somewhere!! Doesn't sound like a ground issue. A short but no blown Fuses - weird. A thing you could try is REMOVE both brake/tail light globes, (as these are the only items beyond your Brake Switches) Start your bike up apply a brake and see what happens. Globes can have a shorted filament or internal support, or you may have an issue with one of the globe sockets, but again, this should normally Blow the 10a Fuse. Keep us posted as to what you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted April 18, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 18, 2018 I have to agree with Grum - the energy contained in a fully charged battery must go somewhere if it discharges - and if it does so in such a short period, something's going to get very, very hot. Presuming that it's discharged, has it been tested as verified good prior to the issue and then verified bad after (by a proper test - not just that the bike won't crank or appears dead). Despite the fact that you replaced the battery, it's not inconceivable that the battery and not the bike is the problem. Batteries can develop internal shorts or other defects and act dead even though they have not appeared to discharge. If you have a buddy with a bike, quad or similar with a conventional lead / acid battery, maybe see if you can borrow it to test it against this issue. If it persists, then it would seem a connection may have gone sour - particularly grounds. There is the main ground connection that leads from the battery negative to the frame up under the seat. I use Oxgard on all my connectors to ensure good current flow. Now, I have to take the medicine myself and get out to the garage to figure out why my voltmeter quit working . . . ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
house Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 11 hours ago, Cogswell said: I have to agree with Grum - the energy contained in a fully charged battery must go somewhere if it discharges - and if it does so in such a short period, something's going to get very, very hot. Presuming that it's discharged, has it been tested as verified good prior to the issue and then verified bad after (by a proper test - not just that the bike won't crank or appears dead). Despite the fact that you replaced the battery, it's not inconceivable that the battery and not the bike is the problem. Batteries can develop internal shorts or other defects and act dead even though they have not appeared to discharge. If you have a buddy with a bike, quad or similar with a conventional lead / acid battery, maybe see if you can borrow it to test it against this issue. If it persists, then it would seem a connection may have gone sour - particularly grounds. There is the main ground connection that leads from the battery negative to the frame up under the seat. I use Oxgard on all my connectors to ensure good current flow. Now, I have to take the medicine myself and get out to the garage to figure out why my voltmeter quit working . . . ! I hear you guys... and am just as baffled! To recap/clarify: I have tried three batteries in this bike. All charge fine on my charger and two have been tested in my '14 Interceptor (rode with these batteries for weeks and no problems... the original battery from the '07 is in the '14 currently.) I unhooked anything not stock, put three different batteries in the '07, cranked it up on stands and let it run for a bit.... then hit either the front brake or the rear. Didn't matter which, the gauges died in seconds and the bike shut off within a minute every time. Never seen anything like this. Calling an exorcist later today :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 18, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 18, 2018 1 hour ago, house said: I hear you guys... and am just as baffled! To recap/clarify: I have tried three batteries in this bike. All charge fine on my charger and two have been tested in my '14 Interceptor (rode with these batteries for weeks and no problems... the original battery from the '07 is in the '14 currently.) I unhooked anything not stock, put three different batteries in the '07, cranked it up on stands and let it run for a bit.... then hit either the front brake or the rear. Didn't matter which, the gauges died in seconds and the bike shut off within a minute every time. Never seen anything like this. Calling an exorcist later today :/ House. Check what Terry has suggested and try what I've suggested and lets know how you get on. You've got to start isolating things. It's a short on the brake switch or whatever is downstream from the brake switches = globes and sockets!!! Perhaps it's a chaffed wire between the brake switches and rear globes. Have you got a Circuit Diagram for your bike? The brake switches and wiring to your Brake/Tail lights is not too difficult to follow. Your fault shouldn't be a difficult one to find BUT the things that are not making electrical sense are 1. You are drawing large amounts of current that as you say flatten a good battery very quickly. 2. This large current draw is not blowing any fuses or melting wires! I've had a similar short on the same power rail caused by a chaffed number plate light wire shorting to frame, it would continually blow the 10a fuse I've mentioned, the bike would keep running ok but no headlights, instrument panel, or brake/tail lights. Make sure Fuse E is a 10amp fuse, perhaps someone may have put the wrong value fuse in its place!!! Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Seems like something would be very hot if that much juice disappears that fast. A fully charged battery should support the lights for a good bit. If the bike has ABS, could it be a short in the control circuit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 18, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Sweeper said: Seems like something would be very hot if that much juice disappears that fast. A fully charged battery should support the lights for a good bit. If the bike has ABS, could it be a short in the control circuit? Good thought Sweeper. I've been looking at my Non ABS circuit diagram my 6gens never had ABS as that version never came to Australia, ABS had never entered my mind!! House - Does Your Bike Have ABS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
house Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 On 4/18/2018 at 5:28 PM, Grum said: Good thought Sweeper. I've been looking at my Non ABS circuit diagram my 6gens never had ABS as that version never came to Australia, ABS had never entered my mind!! House - Does Your Bike Have ABS? No ABS... just gremlins :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 20, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 20, 2018 5 hours ago, house said: No ABS... just gremlins :/ House - Have you tried anything yet that we've suggested? Have you simply removed both tail/brake light globes as suggested to see what happens? Checked for shorts on your brake switches? Checked for wiring shorts downstream of your brake switches? Anything??????? How about an update? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
house Posted April 21, 2018 Author Share Posted April 21, 2018 15 hours ago, Grum said: House - Have you tried anything yet that we've suggested? Have you simply removed both tail/brake light globes as suggested to see what happens? Checked for shorts on your brake switches? Checked for wiring shorts downstream of your brake switches? Anything??????? How about an update? Getting to it.... I had a birthday and my girlfriend and daughter made me go eat steaks and hang out ;) Spending the day with my daughter, but tonight the fairings come off! Sorry for the delay, they actually make me work when I'm at the office :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 22, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2018 11 hours ago, house said: Getting to it.... I had a birthday and my girlfriend and daughter made me go eat steaks and hang out ;) Spending the day with my daughter, but tonight the fairings come off! Sorry for the delay, they actually make me work when I'm at the office :/ HAPPY BIRTHDAY, hope they spoiled you and ya had a great day. Good Luck with the bike and keep us posted. Cheers. Grum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted May 5, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted May 5, 2018 On 4/21/2018 at 11:50 PM, house said: Getting to it.... I had a birthday and my girlfriend and daughter made me go eat steaks and hang out ;) Spending the day with my daughter, but tonight the fairings come off! Sorry for the delay, they actually make me work when I'm at the office :/ House. Any progress yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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