tomperkins Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Hi there, So over the winter I installed a power commander V to try to improve 1) throttle jerkiness and 2) jerky VTEC transition. I've just had my first test ride and while the throttle jerkiness has gone totally the VTEC transition is worse than ever. At 10% or 100% throttle it's smooth, but at 50% (where you spend most time in the real world) it's super jerky. Feels like there's a complete cut for about what feels like a whole second before it comes back in. I've already done the PAIR, snorkle and flapper mods and have a standard exhaust with the baffle mod done for more sound. I installed the 'European 2002-2005 model, Stock exhaust, Stock or aftermarket air filter, Airbox valve disabled' map. Anyone had a similar experience or have any suggestions as I've just spent over £300 and made my bike worse! Thanks in advance, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Egg on Leggs Posted February 18, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted February 18, 2018 A Dyno set up should solve your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer slowbird Posted February 19, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted February 19, 2018 6 hours ago, Egg on Leggs said: A Dyno set up should solve your problem. Really huh? Quite unfortunate he has to go that far to make the bike smooth when it should already have been that way from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer boOZZIE Posted February 19, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted February 19, 2018 Did u take the complete baffle out if so try a map with any aftermarket exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted February 19, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted February 19, 2018 Hi Tom. This really intrigues me. Throttle jerkiness, jerky VTEC transition, does the 6gen come out of the factory with these traits? Well, the three six gens I've owned never had these symptoms OTHER than the normal Starter Valve Synching that might be required once in a blue moon. I also had aftermarket pipes on all three with no ill effects. VTEC transition has always been effected (as far as "jerkiness" is concerned) by throttle rate, slow rpm creep up is smoother than solid wide open throttle approach. The VTEC Spool Valve is simply an On/Off valve controlled by the ECM, does a Power Commander interfere with the ECM controlling the Spool Valve? Later versions of VTEC also include ignition timing and fuelling changes at the VTEC transition point, maybe your PC V is interfering with this? Perhaps Starter Valve Synching might be what's needed to solve your throttle jerkiness at small throttle openings, rather than all the mods you've done. Maybe I'm missing something here?. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dgordon Posted February 24, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted February 24, 2018 Tom, no way is that normal. I added a PCV to my 07, and it made a huge difference. The VTEC transition is now like wind filling the sail - totally predictable and no way like the toggle it was before. I'd definitely check to ensure you have the unit installed right and that your o2 eliminators are working properly. Along with that, you may possibly need to go with a different map. Power commanders are absolutely excellent - this is not normal what you are describing. Double check and verify everything. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dgordon Posted March 8, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted March 8, 2018 Tom, just wanted to confirm, the easy 3 mods you made, you did those all before the PC yes? And you had no issues when you did so, as described prior to the install? I ask as I have only done the snorkel mod, not the pair. I tried the flapper mod and found I had at times a simlar behaviour off throttle, slight settings etc. Put it back and no issues. Just sharing fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomperkins Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 On 2/18/2018 at 6:58 PM, Egg on Leggs said: A Dyno set up should solve your problem. Thanks for your suggestion, this has been suggested by others also so I suspect you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomperkins Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 On 2/19/2018 at 1:39 AM, slowbird said: Really huh? Quite unfortunate he has to go that far to make the bike smooth when it should already have been that way from the factory. Couldn't agree more! Sadly I suspect being one of the first sixth generation bikes I've got the worst of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomperkins Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 On 2/19/2018 at 3:16 AM, boOZZIE said: Did u take the complete baffle out if so try a map with any aftermarket exhaust. No, didn't take out the complete baffle, just the inner tips. May be worth a try with a map made for aftermarket exhaust anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomperkins Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 On 2/19/2018 at 3:41 AM, Grum said: Hi Tom. This really intrigues me. Throttle jerkiness, jerky VTEC transition, does the 6gen come out of the factory with these traits? Well, the three six gens I've owned never had these symptoms OTHER than the normal Starter Valve Synching that might be required once in a blue moon. I also had aftermarket pipes on all three with no ill effects. VTEC transition has always been effected (as far as "jerkiness" is concerned) by throttle rate, slow rpm creep up is smoother than solid wide open throttle approach. The VTEC Spool Valve is simply an On/Off valve controlled by the ECM, does a Power Commander interfere with the ECM controlling the Spool Valve? Later versions of VTEC also include ignition timing and fuelling changes at the VTEC transition point, maybe your PC V is interfering with this? Perhaps Starter Valve Synching might be what's needed to solve your throttle jerkiness at small throttle openings, rather than all the mods you've done. Maybe I'm missing something here?. Cheers. I think starter valve synchronisation is definitely worth doing as you suggest. Out of interest, what years were the VTEC's you have owned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomperkins Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 On 2/24/2018 at 2:26 AM, dgordon said: Tom, no way is that normal. I added a PCV to my 07, and it made a huge difference. The VTEC transition is now like wind filling the sail - totally predictable and no way like the toggle it was before. I'd definitely check to ensure you have the unit installed right and that your o2 eliminators are working properly. Along with that, you may possibly need to go with a different map. Power commanders are absolutely excellent - this is not normal what you are describing. Double check and verify everything. Dave Thanks for your thoughts Dave, any ideas on how I would go about double-checking my setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomperkins Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 On 3/8/2018 at 2:59 AM, dgordon said: Tom, just wanted to confirm, the easy 3 mods you made, you did those all before the PC yes? And you had no issues when you did so, as described prior to the install? I ask as I have only done the snorkel mod, not the pair. I tried the flapper mod and found I had at times a simlar behaviour off throttle, slight settings etc. Put it back and no issues. Just sharing fwiw. I did do all those way before I installed the PCV, correct. The bike has always had a jerky transition (2002 bike, I bought 2 years ago with 42k on the clock). You think it could be worth testing out reversing these mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted April 26, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2018 11 hours ago, tomperkins said: I think starter valve synchronisation is definitely worth doing as you suggest. Out of interest, what years were the VTEC's you have owned? Hi Tom. 2004, 2007 RWB, 2009 and currently 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exwifeschewtoy Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 I just read a day or 2 ago about a guy that installed his pcv and the bike ran like crap until he hooked back up his snorkel, flapper, and pair valve. He said it totally fixed it and was quite impressed with the preloaded tune that he was using. Then maybe redo one at a time while tweaking it until you get all three back............I wouldn't do the snorkel. its 5 inches long.....what can that possibly be doing to help output...and the louder intake sucking sound doesn't appeal to me either. I hooked back up my flapper because I thought it may be running lean at low rpm without it and I cringe at the thought of my bike running lean. That is why when I do finally do a full exhaust I will wait until I can do the PCV a the same time. With the heli-bars too! good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted May 6, 2018 Member Contributer Share Posted May 6, 2018 7 hours ago, exwifeschewtoy said: I just read a day or 2 ago about a guy that installed his pcv and the bike ran like crap until he hooked back up his snorkel, flapper, and pair valve. He said it totally fixed it and was quite impressed with the preloaded tune that he was using. Then maybe redo one at a time while tweaking it until you get all three back............I wouldn't do the snorkel. its 5 inches long.....what can that possibly be doing to help output...and the louder intake sucking sound doesn't appeal to me either. I hooked back up my flapper because I thought it may be running lean at low rpm without it and I cringe at the thought of my bike running lean. That is why when I do finally do a full exhaust I will wait until I can do the PCV a the same time. With the heli-bars too! good luck. I've never understood the fascination with removing / disabling the flapper & snorkel. Both exist to tune the intake air velocity at various RPMs. Honda spent a lot of money to develop and tune the airbox for the best performance from low revs up to redline - a drill and Dremel tool are not likely to improve on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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