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Running cold


Halfrider

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Hi all,

After some advice or idea's from the collective here regarding my naked VFR800 , with its front mounted SV650 radiator, it's running cold, it runs between 68-72 degree C,

in cold weather it runs even colder, I have installed trail tech in-line temperature gauge.

In city traffic it does heat up to 90+ but as soon as there is a glimpse of fresh air down she goes.

I think this could be making it run to rich and is killing my fuel consumption, I am getting about 300 k's per tank of petrol.

I have installed a brand new OEM thermostat.

I have -1 16 tooth front sprocket so revs are a bit higher in top gear, or could it be the my riding style?

Many thanks.

 

20171219_173921.thumb.jpg.f9badda93072d253a46b1648852560fe.jpg

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Love your front end, as well as your rear subframe. 

What is it?

makes no sense why you’re running so cold, it’s a small radiator for the motor. 

How did you route your hoses?

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Nice bike!  

If it hits 90C (194F) in traffic but runs colder at speed the thermostat must not be functioning, new or not.  The tstats job is to keep coolant in the block and out of the radiator

just to keep this very thing from happening.

 

It could be a malfunction of your temp gauge but I expect you have tested that by checking radiator temp already but if not, that is worth checking as well.

 

Good luck! Yeah, what front end is that?

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Thanks for the replies.

 

It's a complete CBR929 front end, fits straight in, just have to modify the lock stops, even the steering lock works, got lots of idea's from other members here, rear is a ducati monster seat and a sub frame that I built, I wanted it as minimalist as possable, only got it going the last month, still in shake down mode carrying tools around just incase......

 

Temp gauge works correctly, even put a cheap radiator mount temp gauge cap and it reads same as the digital trail tech.The original side mount radiators have a left inlet and right outlet, and these two have just been shortened and lenghtened to suit new radiator.

 

I think I just don't want it to be the thermostat, particularly a brand new one to be issue, getting access via removing the throttle bodies takes patience, thought it could just be a highly efficent front mount radiator.

 

20171227_104142.thumb.jpg.cc4b9fbb87570cfba7abeb1cbdd12b5d.jpg

 

Luckily, I have another vfr800, which I had all but forgotton about has a power commander 2.

 

20171226_085241.thumb.jpg.10495416802e7a0270de060052e970ac.jpg

 

It's a very tight squeeze, never considered installing or thought about fitting a power commander to this bike, hopefully, maybe the power comander will help with my running rich and fuel consumption, just need to find a map to suit and yes that is real fake carbon wrap.

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For your own testing peace of mind you could insert an inexpensive pvc plumbing valve into either of the cooling hoses and run an adjustable restriction system and see what happens when you manually cut the flow down. You are talking about it running rich, maybe the engine is running cool enough to cause that.

 

There is also a company or two that builds an inline thermostat deal, usually for race cars, looks trick as hell but smallest size seems to be 1" hose, would have to be modified.

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On 12/27/2017 at 6:47 PM, bykemike said:

For your own testing peace of mind you could insert an inexpensive pvc plumbing valve into either of the cooling hoses and run an adjustable restriction system and see what happens when you manually cut the flow down. You are talking about it running rich, maybe the engine is running cool enough to cause that.

 

There is also a company or two that builds an inline thermostat deal, usually for race cars, looks trick as hell but smallest size seems to be 1" hose, would have to be modified.

Thanks for your input, testing new parts is not usually not on my radar, maybe it will now, I do like the manual over ride valve and the in-line thermostat idea's, cheer's

 

A racer friend suggested tapping up or covering sections of radiator to see if it heats up.

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Covering radiators is common in colder climates, truckers had devices to do it from the cab with a louvered assembly.

 

As a guy in a mechanical business my thoughts always go to the possibility of new parts either being bad or subject to an installation error.

 

The design is to keep the water recirculating in the block until it comes up to temperature and when the t-stat opens it can circulate through the radiator, as soon as the temperature of the loop starts to drop the t-stat starts to close and  the flow becomes diminished to the radiator until the temp starts to rise again.

 

I just went through this with my 95 VFR, after a lot of valuable opinions and theories I pulled the thermostat out (a bitch) and sure as shoot it was open at room temperature, not good, new t-stat cured it and it runs a steady 185 F even in the relatively cold temps we have had here in Fl last week, 40 degrees F. I don't believe a larger radiator will affect the designed function of the system.

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So I've been thinking about my perceived issue.

 

I have installed an in-line temperature gauge AFTER the thermostat, its reading the correct temperature AFTER the thermostat, so when I am riding around thinking it's running cold @70C, by reading the in-line gauge located after the thermostat, that is the temperature at that point, thermostat is closed not allowing heated coolant to flow past my gauge.

 

When in bumper to bumper traffic and the temp gauge is rising, thermostat open allowing heated coolant to radiator and temp gauge is measuring it, get into the open and some air flow thru the radiator cools down, thermostat closes and temp gauge measures temp of coolant after the closed thermostat.

 

Yes? No?

 

The factory temp gauge has it's ECT, engine coolant temperature sensor, located in the V of the block, before the thermostat.......duh.

 

If I could get a reading from that sensor, without the factory gauge from an after market gauge that would provide the correct engine temperature.

 

 

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the coolant temp at the block would be optimal because that is the temp you are really interested in.  But the temp of the coolant leaving the block just after the thermostat shouldn't be all that much different because any coolant leaving the engine hasn't seen the radiator yet.  There may be an issue with the temp  probe not being in the coolant liquid, now that may cause an issue.

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I agree, thats what I am after, coolant temp at the block.

 

But the temp of coolant where I have my temp gauge is after a sometimes closed thermostat, thats why I think the temp is reading lower than whats considered normal, it's measuring temperature at a different location to the stock gauge.

 

Now I just have to find a place, before the thermostat, to put a temperature probe/sender/sensor, I don't want to change the stock one as it sends a signal to the ECM.

 

Maybe the block drain plug can be changed out for a sensor?,maybe to small, Or reposition my in-line trail tech before the thermostat in the V of the block?

 

Happy New Year

 

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On 12/26/2017 at 1:26 AM, Halfrider said:

Hi all,

After some advice or idea's from the collective here regarding my naked VFR800 , with its front mounted SV650 radiator, it's running cold, it runs between 68-72 degree C,

in cold weather it runs even colder, I have installed trail tech in-line temperature gauge.

In city traffic it does heat up to 90+ but as soon as there is a glimpse of fresh air down she goes.

I think this could be making it run to rich and is killing my fuel consumption, I am getting about 300 k's per tank of petrol.

I have installed a brand new OEM thermostat.

I have -1 16 tooth front sprocket so revs are a bit higher in top gear, or could it be the my riding style?

Many thanks.

 

20171219_173921.thumb.jpg.f9badda93072d253a46b1648852560fe.jpg

Which pipe is on that? I like the bent angle of it.

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Looking at the standard 5G wiring diagram, it appears the ECT sensor has two circuits, one that feeds to the ECU (G/O in, Y/Bu out I think), the other (G/Bu wire) goes to the dash gauge. So why not connect your trail-tech gauge to the second OEM circuit? Then you are correctly measuring at the water jacket. The OEM sensor is 2.1-2.6 kilohms at 80C, 0.65-0.73 at 120C.

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11 hours ago, Lint said:

Which pipe is on that? I like the bent angle of it.

That's a cheapo ebay pipe, less than $50, it also needed a 90 degree link pipe $20, it doesn't sound as deep and rumbly as a staintune, it's probably to loud and even has a removable bung to make even more louder, but I think it looks good.

 

6 hours ago, Terry said:

Looking at the standard 5G wiring diagram, it appears the ECT sensor has two circuits, one that feeds to the ECU (G/O in, Y/Bu out I think), the other (G/Bu wire) goes to the dash gauge. So why not connect your trail-tech gauge to the second OEM circuit? Then you are correctly measuring at the water jacket. The OEM sensor is 2.1-2.6 kilohms at 80C, 0.65-0.73 at 120C.

Great idea Terry, thanks for the info, I can't find any detail about whether it would be compatable with the trail tech, might give it a go tomorrow and find out.......

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