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Long time lurker here, wishing to introduce myself!


Northesk

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Hello everyone!

 

I realised that I ought to introduce myself on this forum. I have owned my 2001 Tahitian Blue Pearl 5th Gen for a couple of years almost, and have spent 10,000 miles on the saddle in the last two years, and my goodness, I have to say that I've had a rather tremendous time!

 

 

I've also learned some lessons the hard way admittedly. In the first month of owning her, I have dropped her a couple of times (this is my first bike since getting my licence and all 5"8' of me couldn't get to grips with the weight of the thing), and also realised that the reg/rec and the stator were pretty far gone. I spent too much money getting those two fixed by a Honda main dealer, so I'm getting to grips with doing as much work as I can on my own. Fortunately, my dad teaches design and technology (which I believe they call shop class in the US?) so I have access to plenty of tools to get to grips with things. Currently, I've changed the windscreen to an MRA Vario unit after gouging the factory screen by dropping the bike onto the side of my garage, and replaced the rear brake/indicator for a clear LED item, and a clear housing for the front indicators to freshen the bike up, as well as replacing the chain and sprockets when the bike reached 48K miles and had a major service.

 

At the moment, I'm changing the exhaust system for a Delkevic unit, as the previous stainless steel item had developed a massive crack in the header. I thought about getting the header re-welded, but upon removal of the exhaust, the pipe where #1 cylinder joins the collector box (I think that's the right term when the rest of them join together), it just came clean off!

 

A question for those who may provide an answer. When I was removing the exhaust stud retaining nuts on #1 and #2 cylinders, the nut had sheared off the stud on #1 and on #2, the nut had seized onto the stud, and the stud was removed from the engine block. I would like to know whether firstly, how one would be able to remove the sheared studs and secondly, which replacement studs and nuts are the most feasible option (OEM or a better alternative).

 

Forthcoming plans for the bike are to address the rear shock absorber (it seems to be on its way out), and maybe to refresh the forks. I don't know what exactly to do for these, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Seeing as I've lurked on here for so long, so sorry if I haven't said hello already and now I understand why VFRs are so awesome!

 

 

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Welcome lurker!  You did lurk alright that a picture is required!

 

Never removed sheared studs myself.

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Welcome aboard! As far as the broken stud question, if I read that right, the stud broke off at the outer thread (where the nut goes) and not at the cylinder head, so you should be able to get a pair of locking pliers on the remaining bit and be able to turn the stud out. That being said, some kind of penetrating oil should be put on the stud and possibly heat the case area around the stud as this should help with extraction. Of course if using a flammable solution, a heat gun vice a flame type of heat source should be used. I used OEM studs and nuts for my 5 Gen header replacement.

 

In regard to suspension, there are many options there but personally I would seek a suspension tuner and see if they can refresh both the shock and forks for you. Quite a few of us here in the states use Jamie Daugherty (DMr) to revamp our suspension. I'm sure there is a reputable place near you but you're always welcome to talk to Jamie as he may still be a cost effective solution for you. The Key to suspension is getting it tuned to your weight and riding type you'll be doing with the bike. I can say, whether you're just commuting/touring or full on sport/track riding, a customized suspension will change the bike dramatically for the better.

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Welcome.  

 

I've removed two sheared studs from the block already (don't ask...I'm stupid).

 

You have to extract that stud like this:

1)  Spray the stud with WD-40 or any other penetrating oil to help loosen its threads.

2)  Center punch the center of the stud....very important it's the center.  You may have to do this multiple times to make sure you have a shallow hole right dead center.

3)  Use an extractor drill bit that is THE RIGHT SIZE for the stud (ie. not too big not too small), and drill a hole where you center punched the stud.  Make sure you set the drill in reverse at a very low speed and drill a hole into the stud.  Go maybe 10-20 RPM.  Do this slowly, always making sure you are staying center of the stud.  You only need to drill deep enough to fit the extractor into the hole (not the whole thing just the tip of the extractor).

4)  Once you have a sufficient hole, flip the extractor drill bit around (or use the extractor bit, some kits have separate reverse drill bit and extractor, others have the same bit with a reverse tip and extractor tip at the two ends of the bit).  Now drill the stud out using the extractor.  Again, set the drill in reverse and go slow.  The stud should come right out.

 

Watch a few You Tube videos on sheared stud extractions first before you attempt your first.  Good luck.  Visualize the extraction and use The Force and all will be well.

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Also, for the future, whenever you're removing exhaust studs from any engine you should go into the situation expecting the stud to shear off. 

 

So instead of just immediately going for broke with the wrenches you should spray the stud down with penetrating oil and use high heat on it, then let it sit for a while, then spray it down again, then more heat, then go into the kitchen and eat a sandwich and drink a beer, maybe even take a nap.  Then go back out to the garage and attempt the removal.

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14 hours ago, Rogue_Biker said:

Would removing the header/exhaust studs be better if the engine is warm?  (not hot...meaning you start the engine and warm it just enough...)

 

It would certainly help. It sounds like you have sheared the stud off level with the exhaust head flange so it makes it harder. If you can get the exhaust off you may be able to get a stud extractor on the remains. I use one that's like a little drill chuck and tightens onto the stud the more you turn it..

 

problem is steel in aluminium, the two corrode together and you have to break that corrosion, if you can get enough heat into the stud it's differing expansion rate to aluminium should break the seal, heat, wd-40, heat, wd-40.

 

I would certainly recommend AGAINST drilling the stud out, they are only M6 and not very thick so unless you can drill very accurately you could risk drilling into the head and then you are in Herlicoil territory.

 

HTH

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Yes, in my experience it seems that "shocking" (by drastically thermal cycling) the two metals (the steel of the stud and the aluminum alloy of the cylinder head) has the effect of breaking the bond they've formed over time.  The penetrating oil is added because it will infiltrate the area around the stud as the mechanical bond between the stud and the cylinder head is heat-cycled.  That plus having the patience to give the studs some time to sit while the penetrating oil works it's way into the tiny gaps around the stud threads is key.

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On my VF, some studs "stay in solid" and the nut comes off, others come out "stud and all"....  I followed the penetrating oil and eat sandwich routine...

 

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Whenever I've replaced the headers I've always drenched the nuts in plusgas, wd40 or whatever as peeps above have said.

I use David Silver spares for some items but not always, might be worth a punt.

Good luck 

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  • 1 month later...

So a small update since I haven't posted on this bike for a while. Thank you all very much for the advice that you've given me, especially in regards to those pesky exhaust headers. 

 

I'm pretty lucky to have my old man who's done work on classic cars (he's restored an MGB a long time ago and put a Rover V8 in there) and he too gave me some tips. I really should've taken more photos about taking off and putting this exhaust on, so I'll try and tell a story. 

We still have a portable MIG welder from when my dad and I restored a Mini together from about 10 years ago. From remembering on how I welded replacement body panels I went on my my merry way, by cleaning the stud thoroughly, so that the 12mm nut would weld cleanly on there. Once the little spot of weld cooled was done, penetrating fluid was sprayed around the stud. Once the fluid had time to settle, a propane torch was ignited and we heated the engine block around the weld. Then patience, wiggling, more patience and lo and behold, the sheared studs were off!

 

Replacement studs in, and the Delkevic headers and pipe were installed (although I had to purchase a flange nut and the rubber grommet assembly which connected to the bottom of the sump pan).

 

I added the silencer in afterwards after I decided to clean the rear swingarm, which in the near 17-year long life which this bike has had, doesn't look like it's ever been cleaned. So today, I've been slaving away with WD40, a can of degreaser and a toothbrush to find out that there was a LOT of old chain gunk, road dirt and a swingarm which wasn't black. It's gonna have to be another weekend to really get into the nooks and crannies. That being said, I didn't remove the chain guard as there's these two plastic clips with what appears to be Philips heads but they didn't unscrew? I bet it's a simple solution once I get to grips with it, then I can really purge out more grime, with the help of a pressure washer that I got for Christmas.

 

I hope you all have had a good Christmas and that 2018 will be a great year for everyone's VFRs!

 

 

 

 

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Welcome to the asylum. That's a unique color for the best generation. She'll be beutiful when your done.

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13 hours ago, Northesk said:

So a small update since I haven't posted on this bike for a while. Thank you all very much for the advice that you've given me, especially in regards to those pesky exhaust headers. 

 

 

 That being said, I didn't remove the chain guard as there's these two plastic clips with what appears to be Philips heads but they didn't unscrew? I bet it's a simple solution once I get to grips with it, then I can really purge out more grime, with the help of a pressure washer that I got for Christmas.

 

 

 

 

if they are standard Honda body clips they are a quarter turn and lift things. a thin bladed screwdriver of a panel clip lifter should get them off.

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Northesk, welcome, missed beginning of this feed.... Aah, the things we know but forget....
Good tips for all.

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

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I would suggest you get hold of the workshop manual - I think it's in the downloads section. It will help you a lot. It refers to a canadian or US spec version of the 5th gen, but for all the mechanical/body and most of the electrics it's no different. It's much more comprehensive than a Haynes.

 

In terms of your suspension, it depends on what you use the bike for and what your skill level is. In all honesty, there is no real point in buying exotic springs and shocks and spending a fortune if you aren't going to push the bike to its (or your) limits. You would be better off spending the same money on some training IMHO. If you're a budding racer or track day hero then fill your boots.

 

I bought a new shock from Wemoto http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/honda/vfr_800_fi-w_fi-x/98-99/ and went for a Hagon monoshock and Hagon front springs with some slightly heavier oil. The difference - once fiddled with - was dramatic compared to the knackered original mono shock and it does me fine. This is easily a DIY job, although you may encounter problems with dismantling the front forks because the allen bolt that sits in the end of the sliders can be a bitch to remove. I took mine to Honda and they did it for a fiver.

 

Have a look at David Silver for other spares and don't dismiss fleabay. I've managed to get mine looking good with used parts from good condition bikes rather than spending a fortune on new parts, although I have always gone the OEM route for any bolts that take particular stress, and for bearings and gaskets.

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...and careful with that pressure washer. Avoid the chain links as you may blow out the lubrication from the O rings if it has them, and don't point it at anything electrical as the electrics are fragile enough as it is, or into anything with bearings in it.

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On 1/9/2018 at 7:46 PM, M1962 said:

...and careful with that pressure washer. Avoid the chain links as you may blow out the lubrication from the O rings if it has them, and don't point it at anything electrical as the electrics are fragile enough as it is, or into anything with bearings in it.

 

Those pressure washers do have a bit of power to them! I did make sure that the nozzle was at least arm's length away so that I didn't want to risk pushing any lubricant away from the chain O-rings. I'm gonna leave the electrics well away regardless; I have some ACF-50 ready and when it's a bit warmer, I'm going to be thoroughly applying this (I understand that ACF is fine on electrical connectors as it was designed to be an inert substance which provided a layer of protection).

 

Have to agree 100% with M1962 regarding suspension work and his advice. I'm still new, and I really ought to enjoy riding the bike rather than throwing fancy bits on. That is what the joy of motorcycling is all about, actually being on the bike and enjoying the ride and learning things as you progress. I'm definitely still very green to the whole thing, so I think that's a reachable long term goal. Also, the Honda service manual is an absolute godsend, thanks to marriedman for uploading this. Way easier to understand than the Hayne's manual by leagues, and you can stick it on a tablet!

 

This weekend, I took the air filter out. When the bike had a service last year to get the valve clearances checked, it turned out that a K&N filter was already installed by the previous owner. I took that out and gave it a clean. Little did I know that it took the whole weekend to get it back into serviceable condition and that the cleaning kit K&N sells seems to be a bit... pricey? Anyway, it took a few tries to clean the filter, and when I ran water through it, the sink was black. Took 4 attempts to make sure all that it was all clean as a whistle. I don't have any before pictures but it looked like it had been oiled before (from the overspray on the rubber surrounds), but I would have thought over-oiling those filters does more harm than good. Apparently, you apply a light spray on both services, then leave it alone for around half an hour. Go back, see if there's any non-red areas of the filter material, spray accordingly, wait for oil to wick into the cotton. Nevertheless, the job is done, and I'm gonna go and stick that filter back in the bike.

I see why people buy a new filter, it reduces any downtime of that vehicle but cleaning sure is therapeutic!

 

Next week, I'm going to change the brake pads, as inspection of the rear brake caliper appeared that the pad material and the rear brake reservoir looked a bit lower.

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If your rear brake reservoir is low then please make sure you check for leaks. The low level is either because it hasn't been filled up or it's leaking somewhere; there's no other way out that I'm aware of!

 

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  • 1 month later...

So I've been busy the last couple of weekends, and lazy that I haven't bothered to upload any further progress.

 

Dismantled all those brakes. Front right calliper (the one which doesn't have the secondary master cylinder on above it), that one had trouble. The piston with the larger diameter which is on the highest point on the calliper when mounted was the worst of the bunch to come out.

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Plenty of brake cleaner and compressed air mounted on a vice did the job okay. Second image contains that brake calliper; the fluid had turned into this opaque, pale colour. Appears that water had managed to ingress into the thing, wreaking some havoc. Some corrosion inside the piston housing, this was cleaned off and inspected to make sure there were no rough areas. The dust seal must have failed in this instance, as no brake fluid was visibly leaking from any union in the brake hoses. 

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Lots and lots of cleaning later, I had presentable and usable looking callipers. 

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Picture above wasn't the end result just yet. Still more cleaning needed to be done, but it gets to a point that this is not a concours level bike, I wanted to get rid of as much old brake dust and traffic ooze from the assembly before reinstalling.

 

This is what I have currently:

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A lot better, but still maybe one more go cleaning for the front right calliper later this week. Those joining bolts will be replaced with some stainless steel items before I stick them back on next weekend. Also waiting on some stainless banjo bolts and washers, because I wouldn't have thought it was a great idea using the same washers again given the age of this bike.

 

Maybe some day, the brake lines might get changed but the ones I have and my ability as a novice rider, I'll do just fine. 

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Welcome, and great to see you're taking good care of it! (minus the drops :P ) Don't see many blue ones.

 

Stud removal: Honestly, i'd say just take it to a bike shop you trust. They've done that sort of thing a fair few times, have all the tools, and are liable if they do any damage in the process. If you get it wrong, well.. you're in for an expensive time.

 

Brake callipers: I notice in the pics above this post you've had the calipers apart to renovate. Where the caliper mounting bracket joins the caliper via the two pins, you've used copper grease where you should be using rubber grease. Not a major problem, just resolve it next time you're working in the area for maybe a pre/post winter clean, or a pad change.

Caliper pistons: Maybe the pic doesn't show it (or was before you did it), but the pistons are seriously lacking in copper grease. This is much more urgent. If you haven't done that, do so ASAP.

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22 hours ago, hellindustries said:

Brake callipers: I notice in the pics above this post you've had the calipers apart to renovate. Where the caliper mounting bracket joins the caliper via the two pins, you've used copper grease where you should be using rubber grease. Not a major problem, just resolve it next time you're working in the area for maybe a pre/post winter clean, or a pad change.

Caliper pistons: Maybe the pic doesn't show it (or was before you did it), but the pistons are seriously lacking in copper grease. This is much more urgent. If you haven't done that, do so ASAP.

 

Ah, I got that the other way around it seems. I put copper grease in the pins and rubber grease on the pistons. I can amend that when I next see to this. I'm glad I took a photo!

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  • 1 month later...

Hello all.

 

Bike's almost done, but I've noticed that I might have some form of electrical issue. So what's happening is that the fuel pump doesn't seem to whirr anymore when the ignition is on run. I went to put the battery back on, there was a spark coming out of the negative end when I reconnected it. Main fuse went, changed for a new 30A one, the other fuses looked okay.Starter motor engages but no fuel going into the engine, hence no start. HISS LED indicator doesn't seem to illuminate either so I'm guessing there's a bad connection somewhere. 

 

Anyone got any ideas on what could be an issue? Connectors on the fuel pump looked okay, went to clean the connectors. Maybe I haven't cleaned the right one yet?

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On 4/26/2018 at 5:41 AM, Northesk said:

Hello all.

 

Bike's almost done, but I've noticed that I might have some form of electrical issue. So what's happening is that the fuel pump doesn't seem to whirr anymore when the ignition is on run. I went to put the battery back on, there was a spark coming out of the negative end when I reconnected it. Main fuse went, changed for a new 30A one, the other fuses looked okay.Starter motor engages but no fuel going into the engine, hence no start. HISS LED indicator doesn't seem to illuminate either so I'm guessing there's a bad connection somewhere. 

 

Anyone got any ideas on what could be an issue? Connectors on the fuel pump looked okay, went to clean the connectors. Maybe I haven't cleaned the right one yet?

Stupid question, probably, but you haven't inadvertently left the kill switch in the "off" position, have you?

 

Welcome to the forums, BTW.

 

As for suspension et al, it's a bit of a "chicken and egg" kind of thing. You'll find what seem to be your limits reasonably quickly on the stock suspension. Newer/better suspension will allow you to explore somewhat higher limits...

 

In saying that, your bike has - what - 48,000 miles on it? The stock suspension isn't that great to start with, and by 48,000 miles is likely a fair way past it's (limited) best...In the pantheon of mods, plenty of bikes here have some pretty good suspension set ups (including mine), But plenty of others have reconditioned their stock suspension with pretty good results. And you can easily work your way up from there, by inserting (F3?) CBR600 internals in the front, and grabbing one of those 929 shocks for the rear. Not too radical, but would make a world of difference to the handling of that 'bike...

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On 5/2/2018 at 1:01 AM, EX-XX said:

Stupid question, probably, but you haven't inadvertently left the kill switch in the "off" position, have you?

 

Welcome to the forums, BTW.

 

As for suspension et al, it's a bit of a "chicken and egg" kind of thing. You'll find what seem to be your limits reasonably quickly on the stock suspension. Newer/better suspension will allow you to explore somewhat higher limits...

 

In saying that, your bike has - what - 48,000 miles on it? The stock suspension isn't that great to start with, and by 48,000 miles is likely a fair way past it's (limited) best...In the pantheon of mods, plenty of bikes here have some pretty good suspension set ups (including mine), But plenty of others have reconditioned their stock suspension with pretty good results. And you can easily work your way up from there, by inserting (F3?) CBR600 internals in the front, and grabbing one of those 929 shocks for the rear. Not too radical, but would make a world of difference to the handling of that 'bike...

 

I was a silly boy, turns out. The connection to the bank angle sensor was loose. Once that was seated in properly, she lives! What's interesting now is that the LCD display will show the clock when it's not running, then when you switch the ignition on, it disappears!

 

And thank you! It's nice to be here. I'll worry about suspension maybe a bit later, but I would like to upgrade it. I happen to live in a part of the world where there's a lot of businesses that deal with motorsports, and the Nitron factory isn't too far from me. But I've seen the thread on here with the 929RR rear shock upgrade, that may be worth a look! Didn't know you could do that with the front forks though!

 

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