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ECU/electrical variance


BiKenG

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Looking at UK and US bikes, the ECU and wiring harness have different part numbers, but can anyone explain the actual difference between (e.g. 2001) bikes in these 2 markets?

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There was some good information about this in an otherwise infamous thread last year.  I've copied my posts from that thread below:

 

FYI, the ROW Honda Parts Catalog for the 5th gen shows two different PGM-FI part numbers for the '00-'01: 38770-MBG-A01 was used on the Canadian and Australian models, and 38770-MBG-D01 was used on the Danish, English, Europe Direct and French models.  The US-spec models were either 38770-MBG-A01 (49 state) or 38770-MBG-L01 (California), and if there was a Japanese-spec '00-'01, it would probably have had its own PGM-FI (going on past experience).  So, the 49-state, Canada and Australian models all used the same one.  Yet, as we know, the Australian bikes had HISS and the US bikes did not.  Does that mean that a US '00-'01 5th gen owner could have a functioning HISS system if he fitted a HISS receiver ring, a HISS chip key and whatever wiring was required for the HISS receiver to connect to the PGM-FI?  (I'm assuming there is no plug for it in the US-spec wiring harness.)

 

-=-=-=-

 

As I have pointed out, there have been several different PGM-FI units used in Europe, and sometimes there has been a separate one for Germany/Switzerland and sometimes not.  The reason why there may have been a '98-'99 European DynoJet map which refers to O2 eliminators is because '98-'99 German and Swiss bikes indeed had catalyst exhausts with O2 sensors and PGM-FI units to go with such differences.  So, it is unfortunately not quite as simple as "pre-2000, no O2 sensors; 2000-on, O2 sensors".  The following data covers all of the 5th gen models known to exist:

 

                               W  X  Y  1

38770-MBG-003    1   1            E, ED, F, ND, U, YB, YD, YE, YG, YH

38770-MBG-610    1                 G

38770-MBG-630    1                 SW

38770-MBG-671    1   1            CM, A

38770-MBG-611         1            G, YC

38770-MBG-631         1            SW, YF

38770-MBG-700    1   ?   ?   ?  J

38770-MBG-701    ?   ?   ?   ?  J

38770-MBG-771    1   1            AC

38770-MBG-A01              1   1  CM, U, A

38770-MBG-D01              1   1  DE, E, ED, F

38770-MBG-L01               1   1  AC

 

Codes: E = England, ED = European direct sales, F = France, ND = North Europe, U = Australia, YB = England (etc., these were the "Anniversary" versions from 1999), G = Germany, SW = Switzerland, CM = Canada, A = US 49-state, AC = California, J = Japan, DE = Denmark.

 

As for exhausts, all Canadian, English, ED, French, North Europe, Australian, 49-state and California '98-'99 bikes had the same exhaust system (without O2 sensors).  All German and Swiss '98-'99 bikes had a different exhaust system (with O2 sensors).  For '00-'01, the Canadian, ED and US bikes had the same exhaust system (with O2 sensors), but this was not the same part number as the German and Swiss '98-'99 system.  (And remember, there were no separate German or Swiss models in '00-'01, so bikes sold in those countries would have been ED, too.)  For '00, the Australian, Danish, English and French bikes used the same exhaust as the Canadian and ED bikes (with an O2-sensor) until a certain chassis number, when they got an exhaust with a different part number (and they then used that exhaust through '01).  I don't have a Japanese Parts Catalogue, so I don't know if there was another part number for the Japanese bikes.

 

The Snorkel was the same for all markets during '98-'99, and a different part number was used in all markets during '00-'01.

The Air Funnels insode the airbox were the same in all markets during '98-'00, but a change was made mid-'01 in some markets (Australia, Denmark, England, ED and France).

Camshafts worldwide were exactly the same during '98-'00, except that there were different part numbers for California models (only) during '98-'99.  (I found this uniformity quite surprising.)

Fuel injectors worldwide were exactly the same during '98-'00.

Throttle bodies worldwide were exactly the same during '98-'99, except that there were different part numbers for California models (only) during '98-'99.

Throttle bodies worldwide were exactly the same during '00-'01, except that there were different part numbers for California models (only) during '00-'01.

There were certainly other part number differences, but those are all of the power-related ones I can think of.  Enjoy.

 

-=-=-=-

 

I hope this doesn't derail the incredible, fact-based discussion we've been having on this thread, but according to German Wikipedia, the official German power figures for the VFR800 were as follows:

 

Bj.1998-1999: 72 kW
(98 PS) bei 10.500 min−1
Bj.2000-2001: 78 kW
(106 PS) bei 10.500 min−1

 

And for reference:

Bj.2002-2005: 80 kW
(109 PS) bei 10.500 min−1
Bj.2006-2010: 80 kW
(109 PS) bei 10.500 min−1

 

That is consistent with what Honda said about the improvements they had made on the '00 model (in the 2000 European Press Release):

 

"In order to provide the power and performance required to allow the HECS3 low-emissions system to be included standard on every version—or the only version—of the VFR to be released in the year 2000 and onward, the VFR’s design team restudied the effects of the PGM-FI fuel injection system on catalyser efficiency and its related emissions output. Since all factors in the system are closely interrelated in a critical balance of performance, any changes made to one aspect can have major repercussions elsewhere that may not be so easily compensated for.

 

The pivotal key to the difference in the performance of the VFR’s ‘standard’ and HECS3 configurations could be found in the design of the exhaust system, particularly in the vicinity of the catalysers themselves. To work at optimal efficiency, the catalysers must reach a certain temperature threshold that permits their catalytic elements to function properly. This is especially important at start-ups, and can be a problem in very cold weather conditions, since the catalysers are positioned relatively far away from the engine and therefore take longer to reach their optimal operating temperature.


The exhaust system for the current HECS3 system overcomes this problem by using narrower tubing to help accelerate this pre-heating process. This may be a competent fix, but the smaller tubing has the additional effect of restricting maximum power output somewhat, so the HECS3 version of the VFR ended up being approximately 8PS down in maximum power compared to the standard version. While not a major drop in power, and certainly better than any catalyser system developed until now, this was not what the VFR’s design team was hoping to achieve. The solution to this problem came in the form of a new development made for the CBR1100XX Super Blackbird’s fuel injection system.

 

This system also combines with minor programming changes in the fuel injection system’s new, higher precision ECU to increase the idling speed and thereby accelerate the
heating of the emissions system’s catalysers. Because of this, larger diameter exhaust pipes could be used without affecting the catalysers’ operating efficiency, resulting in a subsequent increase in maximum power output. Thus, even with its highly effective HECS3 low emissions system installed, the new Year 2000 pan-European VFR attains a maximum output of 106PS, which is equal to the engine’s output without the system installed. These modifications also resulted in a wider range of optimal low emissions operation, thus permitting the system to effectively reduce emissions even when the VFR is being ridden harder than usual. A further benefit of this system is its remarkable fuel efficiency.  Not only does the new VFR offer better fuel economy than the current ‘standard’ model, but fully 12% better fuel consumption figures than the current HECS3 model."

 

In summary:  The early catalyst-equipped (HECS3) versions of the VFR800Fi (sold in Germany and Switzerland in 1998-99) were approximately 8PS (7.9bhp) down on power, compared with the non-catalyst-equipped "standard" versions sold elsewhere.  Honda wanted to produce a single, low-emissions, catalyst-equipped version of the VFR engine to be sold everywhere, so they made a number of changes for 2000, which Honda was proud to announce had resulted in lower emissions, better fuel consumption figures and the same power as the standard model had previously.  Oh.  :unsure:

 

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=54330

 

[Edit: This thread has earned the "Official" Ichiban Moto Seal of Approval!]

 

s-l500.jpg

 

Ciao,

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I had some free time...

 

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to determine exactly what the differences are between markets; we can only make guesses based on the parts Honda used in each market and the (admittedly, marketing-driven) statements Honda has made about the different models and technologies.  That and testing them on a dyno, I suppose.  (Our furry friend from the past was supposedly going to do just that, but he doesn't seem to have reported the eagerly anticipated results anywhere, AFAIK.)

 

Ciao,

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Thanks to JZH's info, I'm opting to stick with the '98/'99 ECU to suit that same year of motor and likewise a wiring harness. Just need to find them now.

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