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4th Gen never ending charging issues


FairWeatherFellow

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Ok so if not really sure what's up with my luck, but it's pretty bad. I'll give you the run down in the order it all happened. 

 

Had electrical problems when I first got the bike, flickering lights, and generally bad behavior. So I replaced the RR with a "OE" I got off eBay and put in the vfrness, problem solved.

 

I took the bike to the track, RR caught fire and took the vfrness plug with it. I replaced the plug and RR with Rick's electrical RR. Problem solved. 

 

Couple of weeks later the battery just keeps dying on me over and over and it just can't seem to hold a charge, figure the RR nightmare may have cooked the battery. So I replace it, Problem not solved. So I look around and find the pins in the RR plug are loose so I mess with them but the plug is trash so I replace it. Still doesn't fix it.

 

The bike will charge cold, but once it gets hot it stops charging. Heat soaked stator, replaced that bitch. Seemed to be charging fine so I went for a ride, 10 miles in I have a dead battery. Seconds before rolling my bike off a cliff I decided to throw on the OE RR i originally took off the bike for shits and giggles. Jump started it, rode it home, battery at 12.9 volts, problem solved.

 

50 miles later, I have a dead battery once again. Are both the RRs I have toast? Am I being haunted by some electrical phantom, should I try another new RR? At this point I'm ready to just give it to some kid walking down the street...

 

Thanks for listening, if you have any advice I'll take it.

 

Miles

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Ever hear of the phrase - garbage in, garbage out? Or Einsteins definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? 

 

Stop fixing the bike with junk!  Check out -- www.roadstercycle.com - Grab a FH020AA R/R - do not buy an Ebay R/R... Wire direct to battery like the website says.

Then it sound like you are starting over on the stator... buy OEM Honda new or send to Custom Rewind...  Again no Ebay job. 

 

Next - review "The Drill" as below

 

 

 

Also - system wise, you need to have a good battery first. You will also need to ditch the stator connector, it is a problem waiting to happen.... 

 

Thats to start - give VFRD a shout, this is a great place..... 

 

GL  :beer:

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Update with the 5th Gen RR, better design!  and add a voltmeter. That should take care of the issue. I have had good luck with the 94' I lost a rr in 07 at laguna seca,@ 45k then another RR & Battery in Greybull WY 2013 at 97k.

 

 

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5 hours ago, mello dude said:

Ever hear of the phrase - garbage in, garbage out? Or Einsteins definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? 

 

Stop fixing the bike with junk!  Check out -- www.roadstercycle.com - Grab a FH020AA R/R - do not buy an Ebay R/R... Wire direct to battery like the website says.

Then it sound like you are starting over on the stator... buy OEM Honda new or send to Custom Rewind...  Again no Ebay job. 

 

Next - review "The Drill" as below

 

 

 

Also - system wise, you need to have a good battery first. You will also need to ditch the stator connector, it is a problem waiting to happen.... 

 

Thats to start - give VFRD a shout, this is a great place..... 

 

GL  :beer:

Where would I go to find a new OEM stator in this day and age? After calling every dealer in the State and searching every inch of the web I have only found OE replicas. Which is Rick's electronics recommend by wiremybike.com who lots of these guys on here swear by that stuff. The stator I pulled out of the bike looked fine really, wasn't black and nasty or anything. Battery is a couple of weeks old, besides it dying a couple of times I've kept up on it just fine. 

 

Ditch the stator connector, what do you mean by that?

 

Miles

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2 hours ago, V-FORE said:

Update with the 5th Gen RR, better design!  and add a voltmeter. That should take care of the issue. I have had good luck with the 94' I lost a rr in 07 at laguna seca,@ 45k then another RR & Battery in Greybull WY 2013 at 97k.

 

 

I really need to do a voltage meter, unfortunately at this stage it will just tell me what I already know. Charges cold, stops charging when it gets hot regardless of new, old, used, OE or aftermarket parts that are on it. I thought I was getting the 800fi RR with the new connector but it turned out to be an Aftermarket unit after all. I'll look for one

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Hang on a sec.  The early 5th gen stator (flat) was weak and prone to failure, so no way should you be "upgrading" to that one.  The later 5th gen stator (rounded on top) was supposedly much better.  I've never tested this theory on a 5th gen, but I have killed a reg/rec or two on a 3rd gen (and an NC30). 

 

I have also used the OEM "replacement" reg/rec on my '93 FP for several years:

 

P7140017.thumb.JPG.ef67483f8e574f20b0762cc7930de0da.JPG

 

Blimey, that pic is dated 2003...  Didn't realise it had been that long! 

 

P7140012.thumb.JPG.6aedf9500305cf398d87909d8c2fca2b.JPG

 

Anyway, its a Shindengen SH701, which is a shunt-type reg/rec, but it seems okay.  My bikes don't exactly do a lot of miles...but I must have ridden it a few thousand since 2003.  I don't know what you get if you order a "1993 VFR750F reg/rec" from a Honda dealer these days, but I don't think they still supply the non-finned type?

 

I had relocated it under the headstock, probably unnecessarily, and I have actually just taken it off, due to a complete electrical rewiring upgrade I'm doing, which will involve fitting a new Suzuki OEM series-type reg/rec under the rear cowl (note size difference!):

 

59cbaef28cfa2_20170927_1437001x.thumb.jpg.957b70e62807db6f4fc6aa2b75079537.jpg

 

Assuming you're not going to be going down the series-route, I think the "preferred" option these days is to fit a modern MOSFET reg/rec from another manufacturer.  In other words, an OEM reg/rec, just not an OEM Honda reg/rec.  These are also sold in the aftermarket, Jack at Roadster Cycle comes to mind.  They are all manufactured by Shindengen (same as the original OEM VFR reg/recs), but their reliability has supposedly improved a lot.

 

As for your overall problem, you need to work systematically to solve an electrical problem.  Good luck.

 

Ciao,

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9 hours ago, FairWeatherFellow said:

Where would I go to find a new OEM stator in this day and age? After calling every dealer in the State and searching every inch of the web I have only found OE replicas. Which is Rick's electronics recommend by wiremybike.com who lots of these guys on here swear by that stuff. The stator I pulled out of the bike looked fine really, wasn't black and nasty or anything. Battery is a couple of weeks old, besides it dying a couple of times I've kept up on it just fine. 

 

Ditch the stator connector, what do you mean by that?

 

Miles

Apparently the OEM stator is not available anymore, so send it out for rewind. Its cheaper anyway. 

 

www.partzilla.com

https://www.procaliber.com/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok, so a little update here. I deduced that the Rick's Electronics RR was bad, also the VFRNess had a little above normal resistance from plug to plug. The Rick's Electronics stator functioned properly though, giving a solid current output cold and hot so i just left it in. I purchased the FH020AA from roadstercycle.com in hopes that it would function properly. I removed the VFRNess and salvaged the 3 yellow stator wires and connector, one of the wires had corrosion through and though. I cleaned up the contacts ends and used it. So wired it straight from the stator to the RR and straight from the RR to the battery (same set-up and the VFRNess) i kept the jump wire from the battery to the starter relay via the fuse block supplied by roadstercycle.com. So far it works flawlessly, the battery is at 14.4 constant while the bike is running. There isn't any real variation from revving or idle and is very consistent, and the voltage did not drop once the bike got hot!! Due to the larger unit i couldn't use the factory subframe mount and keep my passenger pegs, so i suspension mounted it in the opening next to the battery box. Should help to keep is cool (even though the unit really didn't heat up at all). I will report back if i encounter further issues. To sum it up DON'T USE PRODUCTS FROM wiremybike.com it effed everything up and they all failed. Thanks for the input guys!

 

Miles

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On 9. Oktober 2017 at 6:46 PM, FairWeatherFellow said:

To sum it up DON'T USE PRODUCTS FROM wiremybike.com it effed everything up and they all failed. Thanks for the input guys.

Wait for it, wait for it, wait for it .....now!!

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I believe you may be a little off base with that judgement FairWeather, Josh has some nice stuff and my 95 charges better than it ever had

after I installed my VFRness. My impression of wiremybike is that Josh knows what he is doing, has more than fair pricing, and, importantly, he is a valuable part of the VFR communities support structure.

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With "fair" in your name, you did you share your measurements/findings with wiremybike's Joshua before badmouthing him here yes?

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Nothing was said about the man personally, I have spoke with him quite a bit about the issues I've been having and he's been very responsive to what has happened. We set up returns and came to agreements with what happened yes. The stator was operating properly, the battery passed the load test, and the new RR I had installed failed in no time at all. The vfrness had .04 ohms of resistance as well as one wire that was corroded through and through. Not to mention the plug to the RR had failed and I had to use the factory plug because he didn't have anymore. As soon as I removed the  products from wiremybike my nightmare stopped immediately. I'm saying this to keep others from going through the same thing I did. Just input from a consumers standpoint. If I'm going to be honest I can't just say good things, because good things didn't happen. This cost me hundreds and hundreds of dollars in town bills and parts, not to mention lots of upsetting moments. Sorry to bad mouth someone but that's how it is.

 

Miles

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Hi Miles,

 

Joshua = wiremybike so when you wrote 

On 9-10-2017 at 6:46 PM, FairWeatherFellow said:

DON'T USE PRODUCTS FROM wiremybike.com

so to me this is personal. Having bought from him (and met him in person), I am a happy customer. Unfortunately looks like you had to be the execption to the rule and from what I see, yous reached an agreement on the returns in the end. Ofcourse, you donot say good things when they didnot happen to you and no amount can be put on "upsetting moments".  I have no idea what town bills are, but are these Joshua's fault? You put in an eBay RR right? You were given plenty tips to follow up, which you didnot do because you know better. Yes, some 4(+?) weeks after you installed it, you found the VFRness to have corrosion. Could be from "new"could be your climate. Probably the 1st, but why rule this out? As for the failed connector, you donot know if the RR  caused it or not.  Joshua was out of stock, can happen. Had you asked here, one would have turned up for sure (pretty sure I have one in my shed).

 

Anyway, your "nightmare has ended" so I wish you safe travels.

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Joshua is a stand up, honest, competent, responsible and well respected individual on this forum.

 

Your methods of trial and error instead of following established trouble shooting flowcharts has in my mind lead to your expensive repairs.

 

I can't see that you ever ran the workshop manual checks, like Stator AC Voltage output (unplugged), continuity to ground or between phases and resistance. I can't see from what you've written that the checks you may have performed were done so in the logical order for ruling out components. Perhaps you did but it's not documented.

 

The first thing for running these checks is a known healthy and fully charged battery. Nope, you didn't do that.

 

Your first mistake was just throwing in an eBay R/R and the VFRness. No checks documented or expressed in your post. This was a bandaid on a haemorrhage and probably just made things worse. The VFRness doesn't fix existing issues and poor component choice. It helps reinforce the OEM installation when this is assumed to be in decent working order TO PREVENT ISSUES from leaving you stranded. So that was an erroneous assumption if you thought otherwise. EBay R/R... Pffff.

 

Then because of this poor choice of pseudo-solution, your electrical installation caught on fire!! That probably cooked certain sections of the wiring loom, in particular the VFRness as it's intended to work as a bypass and THAT is probably the sole reason some of it ended up having the resistance you discovered AFTER THE FACT. Cooked wires give resistance.

 

Then you just continued doing what poor mechanics who don't have electrical knowledge do: swap parts out in no logical trouble shooting sequence to see if you got lucky.

 

It stands in Josh's favour the fact he refunded you anything at all; he's just too nice a guy.

 

There are tutorials on this site explaining how to diagnose and fix these issues and plenty of generous altruistic people here that could have put you on the right path.

 

You're not telling it how it is by slandering Joshua's website and suggesting people avoid giving him any business. You are attempting and failing miserably to mask your own incompetency in dealing with your bike's issues by using him as your scapegoat.

 

Period.

 

Nail in your coffin: you can't conclude Jack shit just by looking at a stator, it requires testing with a multimeter.

 

 

 

 

 

The stator I pulled out of the bike looked fine really, wasn't black and nasty or anything.

  

The term Fair Weather Friend (or Fellow) is not a complimenting term but the complete opposite. It refers to turncoats who are only friendly when times or circumstances are good. When the chips are down, when you most need them, they give zip in return or turn on you to better their own lot or just aren't there for you. Funny moniker to describe one's self using a derogatory term like that. Poor judgement there as well.

 

I would and have just gone out on a limb for Josh and believe most of us would.

 

 

 

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