Fuel injector clean/refurbish recommendation

[MooseMoose]

I put stainless fastener set on my fairing. Had the bike 9 months since I put them on, rode 3000 miles, and it's near the beach and those things are SHINY like brand new. Left the stock fairing fasteners on the chin fairing and they are definitely uglier. I haven't gone stainless for any other fasteners yet, though.

 

Most of the places where you might get moisture aren't regular zinc. They are that yellow zinc chromate, which is much more corrosion resistant. For instance the bolts on the fuel tank hinge are specifically yellow chromate partly for that reason. The black ones tend to be places where moisture can't accumulate, or where it'll get warm from the engine. The black is a hard coating that provides extra corrosion resistance. Honda chose what they used and where pretty carefully. 

 

Anyway, SF, if you're ever in a pinch and need a couple of yellow chromate or black (both stock) bolts, I have spares in M6x12mm.  Let me know. I'm in Carlsbad so only 10 minutes away.  I also ended up with a spare o-ring set and thermostat (screw up from the place where I ordered them) and I just kept them. If you decide to replace them let me know and you can have the spares.

[MooseMoose]

So, it is all back together. Only took it around the block, then about 2 miles to get a tank of gas, but the improvement in the bottom end is substantial.

 

I have a rapidbike on there, and it starts correcting at 3200rpm. Normally, I'd let it get off the peg before pulling out of the drive, often up to the 130s so the wax unit was opening up, then head up the hill (I live on a steep incline).  Going up the hill at 2000 rpm was a little rough and took a bit of throttle then you could DEFINITELY feel when it hit the rapidbike correction range as it smoothed out dramatically and gained power.

 

Now you can't tell the difference when you get to the corrected range. Smooth as glass, even in the uncorrected range right off idle all the way up to 10K.

 

And it took quite a bit to get the starter valves close, which tells me there's quite a bit of change at idle, at least.

 

I learned a few things. The first is where the vacuum hoses and wires route, because if they don't come out the right place you're pulling the throttle body off again to get them routed. The second is that the throttle body drops into the boots a lot easier the third or forth time you pop it into place. Heh.

 

The third is that 6mm is slightly smaller than 1/4", so 1/4" heater hose is too wiggly on the hose barbs for the wax unit. I ended up using silicone 6mm vacuum hose, which is the silicone equivalent of what Honda recommends for that part, and it fits tightly.

 

The fourth is that the silicone hose set is imperfect -- actually slightly too long in some instances -- so you have to be patient and careful, and it helps to trim a quarter inch off the shorty hoses from the engine to the thermostat housing so that housing isn't trapped against the frame. However, for the minor hassle, I am happy with the quality for the price, and don't think I have any leaks. I'll be more confident about leaks after 10 miles and a couple of heat cycles, though.

 

Surprisingly, for 17 year old hoses, only one looked swollen. The rest look pretty good!

 

I think tomorrow I'm going to clear my maps and maybe do some freeway onramps on my lunch break to get started on new maps. I'll be interested to see how close the fuel maps are between cylinder pairs now.

 

[MooseMoose]

I'm not good at taking pictures while I'm working. I really should have gotten a shot of the V below the throttle body all pretty, clean, and with red hoses, but I got excited to get it together.

 

You can see, before the conversion there were signs of at least one weeping hose, and there was one swollen hose in the V (going to the 1/3 cylinders from the thermostat) so I am glad I did everything.

 

Hopefully this'll show anyone how a 5th gen's injectors seat, and how the fuel rails are mounted. And prove there's NO WAY you can get them off in situ -- those fasteners are pretty tough to get at even with the throttle body flipped over.

[Duc2V4]

Nice job. I'll be looking into hoses too at some point. How was the kit? Any issues with hose length, bends or fitting them on the bike?

[RVFR]

Wow nice job with the patience division. I like the hoses. Now with the injectors, IDK if its worth it to mess with em after seeing this. I had it to install 6th gen injectors,  but this shows its a Major pain in the ass.  

[MooseMoose]

If it is JUST injectors, it isn't a major pain in the ass.

 

What I mean is, I did a lot. I replumbed everything and had a parts ordering faux pas so it was a couple weeks between disassembly and reassembly. Now that I know to be very careful with where the vacuum and electrical connectors exit, have a couple of pages of the manual printed out, and own a ridiculously long #2 screwdriver, I can get the throttle body off in less time than it takes me to get the airbox off.

 

The big deal for me was getting the one-way vacuum valve and hoses, and the 2 pin grey connector to exit over toward the #4 cylinder, because they're too short to reach the connectors on the airbox any other way. My little pea brain equated grey with all the connectors over the left side radiator, so I routed it to the  wrong side. Then I fixed that and left the vacuum lines trapped. Then I cursed a bunch and fixed that, too.

 

 

As for the hose kit, the bends were not perfect. I think they're actually for a 98-99 which is slightly different, and didn't come with the lines to the wax unit.

 

The lengths are good. One or two might be slightly longer than needed, but it's easy to cut 1/4" or 1/2" off of them. Rather slightly too long than too short.  The lower cross-radiator hose is too long and has an extra bend, but it still works fine. I had to fuss with the short hoses off the thermostat housing, but I trimmed one a little and it went together. The really funky bends from the thermostat to the waterpump bypass worked out well, and the ones on the left side of the bike that wrap around from the block connectors to the water pump are close enough for government work. If I was smarter and took one off at a time so I knew which way the Y connector faced, I'd have had zero problems.

[EX-XX]

On 9/19/2017 at 7:37 AM, MooseMoose said:

If it is JUST injectors, it isn't a major pain in the ass.

 

What I mean is, I did a lot. I replumbed everything and had a parts ordering faux pas so it was a couple weeks between disassembly and reassembly. Now that I know to be very careful with where the vacuum and electrical connectors exit, have a couple of pages of the manual printed out, and own a ridiculously long #2 screwdriver, I can get the throttle body off in less time than it takes me to get the airbox off.

 

The big deal for me was getting the one-way vacuum valve and hoses, and the 2 pin grey connector to exit over toward the #4 cylinder, because they're too short to reach the connectors on the airbox any other way. My little pea brain equated grey with all the connectors over the left side radiator, so I routed it to the  wrong side. Then I fixed that and left the vacuum lines trapped. Then I cursed a bunch and fixed that, too.

 

 

As for the hose kit, the bends were not perfect. I think they're actually for a 98-99 which is slightly different, and didn't come with the lines to the wax unit.

 

The lengths are good. One or two might be slightly longer than needed, but it's easy to cut 1/4" or 1/2" off of them. Rather slightly too long than too short.  The lower cross-radiator hose is too long and has an extra bend, but it still works fine. I had to fuss with the short hoses off the thermostat housing, but I trimmed one a little and it went together. The really funky bends from the thermostat to the waterpump bypass worked out well, and the ones on the left side of the bike that wrap around from the block connectors to the water pump are close enough for government work. If I was smarter and took one off at a time so I knew which way the Y connector faced, I'd have had zero problems.

Just to revive this thread, I have a "spare" engine coming to my place soon, and I intend to refresh/replenish pretty much everything you've done on it, prior to installing it in my bike. (Granted, it may sit a while before I actually DO install it, so I probably need to take that into account too).

 

Anyway, I may have missed it, but did you order completely new hose clamps for the new hoses (I've ordered the same kit as you did), and was it completely intuitive as to exactly which hose went where?

 

BTW. My bike is a '99, so I'm hoping the kit is basically "comprehensive" for that bike...

[VFR4Lee]

That is one crazy 3D jig saw puzzle. Hoses, wires, yikes. 

[MooseMoose]

15 hours ago, EX-XX said:

 

 

Anyway, I may have missed it, but did you order completely new hose clamps for the new hoses (I've ordered the same kit as you did), and was it completely intuitive as to exactly which hose went where?

 

BTW. My bike is a '99, so I'm hoping the kit is basically "comprehensive" for that bike...

 

 

Yes, I ordered brand new hose clamps. There was a kit that matched the hoses and they were nice, stainless, seamless clamps.

And, yes, every hose is shaped to match where it goes. If you took the original ones off you will have zero problems, but even if you're starting from a blank engine if you have the exploded diagrams in the book you'll be ok. I printed that page of the manual and the exploded diagrams from the parts fiche and had them with me at the bike and they helped greatly.

 

A couple of the short hoses -- the pair that go on top of the engine to the thermostat housing, and the ones that go to the knuckles on the left side above the water pump -- may seem to be the same, and the plastic Y joint at the front left is an odd piece, but as you put it together they become obvious and with the parts diagram you'll understand just fine.

 

I'm not 100% sold on the silicone hoses. I have chased little leaks since I started that project and replaced the wax unit hose with stock (you don't have these, thankfully) and I came to the conclusion that they're not necessarily better than normal rubber. I mean, they'll last a long time and are great with heat and all that, but the normal rubber are perfectly adequate and probably more forgiving to positioning and clamping. The Silicone you have to have the right clamp or it will weep.
 

[adkfinn]

On 9/18/2017 at 1:30 AM, MooseMoose said:

I'm not good at taking pictures while I'm working. ...

 

There is no need to apologize for the lack of working pics when you make up for it so well with this pic. Best gen, best color, end of argument.  Yes, I am completely biased. 

 

On topic - this is great thread and I'll be sure to reference it when I complete this work on my bike this spring. I have AS3 hoses and clamps waiting to go on.  

[EX-XX]

4 hours ago, MooseMoose said:

 

 

Yes, I ordered brand new hose clamps. There was a kit that matched the hoses and they were nice, stainless, seamless clamps.

And, yes, every hose is shaped to match where it goes. If you took the original ones off you will have zero problems, but even if you're starting from a blank engine if you have the exploded diagrams in the book you'll be ok. I printed that page of the manual and the exploded diagrams from the parts fiche and had them with me at the bike and they helped greatly.

 

A couple of the short hoses -- the pair that go on top of the engine to the thermostat housing, and the ones that go to the knuckles on the left side above the water pump -- may seem to be the same, and the plastic Y joint at the front left is an odd piece, but as you put it together they become obvious and with the parts diagram you'll understand just fine.

 

I'm not 100% sold on the silicone hoses. I have chased little leaks since I started that project and replaced the wax unit hose with stock (you don't have these, thankfully) and I came to the conclusion that they're not necessarily better than normal rubber. I mean, they'll last a long time and are great with heat and all that, but the normal rubber are perfectly adequate and probably more forgiving to positioning and clamping. The Silicone you have to have the right clamp or it will weep.

 

Cheers mate. I'll order the specific clamps and make sure everything is buttoned up tight. I wonder if it's worth using thread tape/paste or similar prior to installing the hoses, to guard against leaks in the future...?