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3 hours ago, Rush2112 said:

Quick observation on your R/R replacement.  R/R use the subframe as a heat sink to help dissipate heat so they need to mount with the back of the R/R flush against the mounting plate to facilitate heat transfer. It may not be an issue since the one you are using is so oversized and may have enough cooling with the fins surface area but it is something to look out for especially on long tours.  If the R/R gets too hot turn on your high beam headlights to help reduce the shunt load on the R/R.

 

He's using an OEM series-type reg/rec, so in theory there won't be massive amounts of heat to dissipate in the first place!

 

Ciao,

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18 hours ago, Rush2112 said:

I just read this thread and I think it is awesome how you are giving your VFR a new life.  Good luck on the reconditioning!

 

There were a couple of questions throughout the thread that I may be able to provide some insights:

Regarding valve clearances, the valves usually tighten up from recession into the valve seats from millions of impacts. Older metallurgy allowed valves to stretch which also led to valve tightening but modern valves generally don’t suffer from this as much as in the past.

Regarding the force of valve impacts, intake and exhaust impacts are not necessarily the same. The speed of the valve is dictated by the cam profile, the duration and lift of exhaust and intake cams are often different so the valve closing speeds can be different; in our 5th gen engines cam lift and duration are the same (8mm and 225 degrees) for intake and exhaust so this simplifies things. The valve materials are different so they have different densities and they are different sizes; therefore, the intake (29mm) and exhaust (24.5mm) valves have different mass so they have different momentum when impacting the valve seats. This is likely why you see a difference in intake and exhaust valve clearances.

 

Quick observation on your R/R replacement.  R/R use the subframe as a heat sink to help dissipate heat so they need to mount with the back of the R/R flush against the mounting plate to facilitate heat transfer. It may not be an issue since the one you are using is so oversized and may have enough cooling with the fins surface area but it is something to look out for especially on long tours.  If the R/R gets too hot turn on your high beam headlights to help reduce the shunt load on the R/R.

 

sorry for the zombie resurrection of previous topics... they were new to me tonight :goofy:

Thanks for the advice, Rush. I’m flattered you read my thread and grateful for the advice! Your posts on this thread have been a great source of information and inspiration. 

 

JZH, you’re probably right about he overkill RR being able to cope (it barely even gets warm) but it didn’t hurt to use a good heat sink. 

 

This new type or RR not only has huge capacity to absorb over-current, it also controls how much is put out in the first place. At least that’s what the Triumph site I read said. So it doesn’t need to work as hard and doesn’t get as hot. 

 

Stray

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Removed subframe this afternoon - wiring harness and ECU was holding it in. 

 

Now to fit CBR600 F4 alloy subframe instead. Curiously, the 5th gen subframe is shorter and sexier than the CBR, which is a dedicated race bike? 

 

2BA79820-3190-429E-98C0-33A08C33FFC7.thumb.jpeg.56418a01dcf8b09ec1012371661b0c8e.jpeg

 

Also, the 5th gen subframe has a sexier upward sweep than the CBR, again not what I was expecting (seat fits on the left edge in pic below). 

 

D483225D-A2C4-4B81-A2E3-4AF4931E9D17.thumb.jpeg.501f0c9d9097f3c18067c72bd2da4ecb.jpeg

 

Showing roughly where the CBR subframe will need to be cut to match up 5th gen mounting points. Works out quite well! Mounting points are about 5mm too narrow on 5th gen frame so spacers/washers will be required. 

 

Another shot side-by-side. 

 

4B65525D-ED53-4570-A295-6B503E860585.thumb.jpeg.0dba01bbf6973d747dc520e2dcf76b80.jpeg

 

From above you can see both subframes are virtually identical in width. I suppose a rider’s @rse is a rider’s @rse is a rider’s @rse whatever he rides...

 

AAC00B5B-ACB0-48FE-A72E-8B34BAD8F1EE.thumb.jpeg.bc2796bc36273aeaf8a4a956ae3f0696.jpeg

 

Few shots showing the Triumph 675 tail section I plan to fit instead of the stock unit. Hard to line things up properly but gives an idea. The seat units are placed side-by-side with the bump stops lined up. I’m hoping to keep the stock seat as it matches the tank grooves but will need cutting down to a mono unit. 

 

28F758ED-ABCC-49A0-8FD9-F5D5B8FD17BC.thumb.jpeg.745601e1e5aa55d3e176f6db71d8ce03.jpeg87122359-EFC9-41B5-ADF4-35FACD4CFB9B.thumb.jpeg.33012c6025a20a51c492d338300acbca.jpeg50F66CD3-FE65-446D-8777-D5FA2BAD3E62.thumb.jpeg.111077ef9a2fa445eb852ec9dbd158cb.jpegAEC09684-A253-4FB2-B59D-2FFAC8D2E244.thumb.jpeg.fa65d280f7a3fcd1c9e1c510c6df8e6d.jpeg

 

As things stand the tail section should be a hair longer than the end of the stock duo seat. In effect the pillion seat will be cut off to make room for the new Triumph 675 tail fairing. 

 

Was as going to hack at the CBR subframe today but lost my nerve and ran out of time. Need to take a few measurements and pull my finger out. 

 

Ideally I hope to get the tail section running parallel with the tank. Will require a bit of trial-and-error hacksaw work! 

 

Stray

23D260EE-8117-4798-9E7E-E5603D36CE52.jpeg

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Spent about 45 minutes trying to remove the sprocket side rear nut and the only thing I achieved was to bend the breaker bar! 

 

By the way a good method to loosen the nut if you don’t have brakes or a spare pair of hands is: push a wooden shovel handle through the rear wheel and wedge it against the swingarm (chain guard removed to save it breaking), then position the bar at 9-10 o’clock so you can stomp it down. This keeps the forces aimed downward and less likely that you’ll push the bike forward off its stand. B7A6599E-B68A-4803-812B-AFD46DA52258.thumb.jpeg.68d92872278a629316552fd785f56f84.jpeg11B98828-D2EE-4431-B90B-AB855B8FDAB8.thumb.jpeg.f9d7b9e6de3a011d29ba99dd53ae65ae.jpeg

 

Thought I was being clever here but I still failed to loosen the nut.

 

You can see where the bar has bent. I’ve used this old steel shelving tube for many years on various motorcycles up to 150 ft pounds of torque. Today is the first time it let me down! 

 

So I pulled out the torch and applied some heat/lube then hit it again... and bent the other side of the bar! 

 

So I applied a bit more heat/lube and reached (to my shame) for the last resort of any exasperated home mechanic - the 4LB sledgehammer...still no joy! 

 

I gave up and wheeled the bike into the shed for another day. Whilst doing so I realised the huge pressure applied to the nut had dug the sidestand 1.5 inches into the tarmac! This is the unexpected drawback of my “clever” method outlined above. And the fact it failed to loosen that blasted nut...

 

Stray

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An air or electric rattle gun would be the tool for this job. I had a similar issue, and my local bike shop used their rattle gun and the nut came off easily after a couple of seconds. I now own  a gun of my own, and it has been a great investment.

 

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1 hour ago, Terry said:

An air or electric rattle gun would be the tool for this job. I had a similar issue, and my local bike shop used their rattle gun and the nut came off easily after a couple of seconds. I now own  a gun of my own, and it has been a great investment.

 

Thanks Terry.

 

Question is what do I do now the bike is in pieces and I have no access to a rattle gun? 

 

More heat and lube i suppose...

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Can you hire a rattle gun? I have an electric one, mains powered, cost me less than GBP50 at a local hardware chain store. 

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No, get a longer lever!  A scafold pole is the old standby. 

 

I had an eBay swing arm I wanted to dis-assemble, but no bike to mount it on, so this was what I did:

 

836119066_2016-03-2514_06_07x.thumb.jpg.c09c73b4f15bb4af10be81c73b91122b.jpg

 

I didn't have a socket handy, so I used my trusty 24" Craftsman C-wrench (it's fine if you're careful--and lucky!)  I used a square steel tube (about 2"x2") to keep the axle from turning.  The nut loosened without any drama, IIRC.

 

(You did un-stake the nut, right?)

 

Ciao,

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10 hours ago, JZH said:

(You did un-stake the nut, right?)

 

 

That's what I was about to say.

Plus the tube you are using doesn't look very strong.

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Thanks for the advice guys - I mean it. 

 

Terry, I’m not sure you can hire a rattle gun in the UK? Not that I know of anyway. I could just pull the swingarm and take it to the local garage as a last resort. 

 

JZH, very clever what you did to that loose swingarm. And yes, I did unstake the nut. I REALLY unstaked it with a big @ss chisel and may have ruined it. 

 

VFROZ, you’re right about that bar being a bit weak but it’s a solid steel bar. Took all my weight jumping on it to bend like that. 

 

Scaffold tube is definitely stronger so I might grab one when family obligations allow. 

 

Thanks gents. 

 

Stray

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Stray - another trick I did quite a while back is - I had a left over 8 foot long oak plank in the garage and I drilled the wheel bolt pattern into it.. then bolt on the plank to the lug studs with lug bolts.

Instant monster torque arm.  Also use for re install the 36mm bolt. - Oh yeah... used a 3/4" breaker bar to get that thing off... 

I think if you get the bike on the center stand, it would work better. 

 

image.png.e2f272e4dbe294100ad0e9eab146432e.png

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Thanks Mello, I was very impressed by that idea! Saw it in another thread. 

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Progress is painstakingly low but I had a brief crack at the alloy subframe conversion for my Triumph 675 tail conversion. 

 

First, a weight comparison of the stock subframe vs the alloy CBR600 F4. You’ll note there’s not much in it, which I found disappointing. Used an old fishing scale so might not be spot-on but gives a good guide. 

 

Here’s the F4 at just over 3.5kg:

 

3221AC7B-8340-4DDD-9B5E-E6A3A9C5BAEC.thumb.jpeg.a0eb44350b87561e058109d379c71ddb.jpeg

7329A749-88D9-4C78-9462-515AAE574A96.jpeg

 

Here’s the 5th gen at about the same: 3DABA7B1-0D6D-4595-B96B-B98DC2EEA9A2.thumb.jpeg.3addeed6d7c6468d14430c2ea0e6567f.jpeg

 

69BB74A9-CE8D-42F7-8DCF-292567B9C82F.thumb.jpeg.7869b7e41bd7cd7de822bb8b021f2111.jpeg

 

I was really disheartened by this, thinking it isn’t worth the effort (all the fabricating I’d have to do plus issues with the undertray etc), but the CBR sub is quite a bit longer than the VFR so I thought maybe I’ll cut off all the extra bits and weigh it again. 

 

Here’s the measurements written down in case someone wants to do this later but NOTE: the short bolt spacing marker is wrong. It should read 1.5cm, not 1cm

76D35D9C-992F-4D98-8D73-23AA71129D12.thumb.jpeg.8af8079b7b81bc3014d847d64f98d3e8.jpeg

5204AF35-AC33-4392-B45F-020802BDB8EC.thumb.jpeg.fed9c89c51c15d00d4b12defcd998027.jpeg

 

After cutting off those bits (there were some hefty mounts for the seat catch) this is the weight: 

 

13968DE4-A254-4209-832C-5BF946F1A05F.thumb.jpeg.516cd5771f8a5741d229f1a203dbc42b.jpeg

 

That’s just under 3kg, 1/2KG saving with a bit more to cut off. Also, the seat catch on the F4 is HUGE and heavy as made of steel plate (rest of the sub is alloy). 

 

Here’s the seat catch on its own: 

98D79DF4-4879-47A3-9F22-C5C79C59EC56.thumb.jpeg.06c81d16a3f3b63267e1ec4612aaaa01.jpeg

 

At one point I got tired of hacksawing all the little tabs that needed removing so I just pulled them off with a big pair of pliers. Was surprised how easy they peeled off! 

 

This is is what the frame looks like now: 1F39AA80-A64C-4887-8AB4-328C3A2A0EAC.thumb.jpeg.01b62078546e9a3ff58ff14ca2e3c40c.jpeg

 

But the Triumph tail still won’t quite fit: 

 

11E0F751-364B-40FB-873D-0F7949346C73.thumb.jpeg.52df1bbd6779b9db208232a13c25db97.jpegDBDF1F31-CC73-4102-BF64-D12547099537.thumb.jpeg.922126945218f56f5357b7861a6fc9ba.jpeg

 

The sub bits sticking out above will need to be bent towards each other so they can fit in the triangular rear fairing. Not quite sure how I’m going to achieve that but I imagine a blowtorch will feature I’m my future...

 

If I’m lucky this cut will make it fit but I don’t like the loss of strength it will mean (bottom of square section will be lost) but then again that bit will only carry the plastics and light as it is a single-seater now. 

 

B5EB701F-85A3-40C7-A5EB-E7624D3D8B5B.thumb.jpeg.a342f9aef236ba8f0ad8300501dba860.jpeg

 

Stray

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I read a good part of this thread tonight and I think that you are getting right into the resto. Good on you.

 

I,ve just done a front end and full rear axel and swing arm service on a 2000 Gen 5 that I've owned for 2 months and plan on taking up to Cairns soon. Lucky for me my axel nut came off eazy with a rattle gun. The wheel nuts however were bastards... my breaker bar looks like a coat hanger!

 

If your bike were mine, I'd have the swing arm off it and laying tire side down while I juiced the nut and thread with the most potent penetrating oil I could get on it for about a week. Then use a rattle gun. Under that nut, you also have a spring washer, collar, cush drive bearing, collar and cush drive flange splines to come off yet. With luck you will have an eazier time getting them free than the nut. Lots of penetrating oil...

 

The nut on the inboard end of the suspension linkage was also a bastard on my bike, I had trouble with the spanner rolling off the nut. Wedged it on in the end.

 

I found that nearly all the dust seals on the suspension and rear axel were on their last legs and the double ball bearing in the bearing hub has been spining on the axel $$. The grease in all the bearings needed cleaning and replacing.

 

You might find success cleaning the non painted aluminium surfaces with oil based degreaser and very fine steel wool. On painted surfaces it rubs through the paint, don't use it.

 

You shouldn't need too much strength on the very end of your sub frame. Holds a couple of lights, wires and bits of platic!? I don't think chopping it on those marks will hurt. Maybe epoxy in a wedge of hard plasic between the two square sections ahead of the weld and extend it beyond where you cut the back out of the lower square section? Helping support the upper rail where you havn't weakend the lower one.

 

Hope this info helps.

 

Cheers

Z

 

 

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Thanks Zarquon, both for your advice and for reading this far! 

 

Havent had a chance to tackle that rear nut again but will  be soaking it with penetrant as you suggest. Plan is to loosen ALL nuts on wheel/suspension while bike is together and wheel can be used as a chock.

 

Most guys here have struggled with loose swingarms and wheels as it’s harder to get good purchase. If oil and heat don’t do it I’ll use your “on it’s side” advice as a last resort. 

 

Thanks for your subframe advice too - will be going that route! 

 

Congratulations on getting your resto done so fast. I’ve owned the bike for two years and not got as far as you have - respect! 

 

Stray

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Just in case you didn't already know what was behind that nut. The second pic is in order of the way it came off.

 

It all went back together today and is sitting pretty on a spanking new T30 EVO GT and no slop in the linkages any more.

20180731_112756.jpg

20180731_112747.jpg

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After lots of life happening I finally got a chance to have another go at removing the rear hub...with a little help from my scaffolder friend! 

 

Did somebody say BREAKER bar? Note the wooden shovel stuffed through the front wheel spokes. 

 

65070985-6951-4F9A-928C-AA53AF431595.thumb.jpeg.a749e81ce74c6ebace509c3ac4ea28b9.jpeg

 

Well, that rear nut was so seized my entire weight on the scaffold tube wouldn’t shift it! Half inch socket handle was bending like a banana - thought it was going to snap. 

 

So out comes Mr Mapp Gas Torch to play with Mr Scaffold Tube and this time they got it loose between them. Soaking with penetrating oil overnight might also have helped. 

 

3828CC39-CF8D-4B3B-97B4-0DF6A0E197C8.thumb.jpeg.d66a5bb2b8d0415a2b45bb9913ca024c.jpeg

 

Got the sprocket and cush drive off easy enough but the rear calliper took a bit of figuring out. 

 

391FDF53-4197-4CB1-B8F5-30BB61FF6BDD.thumb.jpeg.7aea99d9bff6d3560587db0810e783cf.jpeg

 

Stripped it almost all off but ran out of time and couldn’t tackle the giant circlip to get the last bit done. Very frustrating when there are time limits on wrenching. 

 

579D457F-9F46-4703-B54F-EB01E6D6C80D.thumb.jpeg.a6046a0a7c84ecf393f745d25268771a.jpeg

 

Had to bolt it all back together loosely to put bike away and go to work. That means taking it all apart AGAIN next week when I get another 1.5 hours to wrench.

 

At this rate my children will inherit this unfinished project in 20 years time...

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