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Am I the only one who didn't know...


GatorGreg

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55 minutes ago, NodakVFR said:

My '15 Goldwing ups the idle when the clutch lever is let out, but my '10 VFR1200 does not.  

 

Interesting - I'm using this data to compile a list at the bottom of my first post.  Soon I will be the world's foremost expert on this trivial subject :tongue:

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1 hour ago, SithLord said:

The latest Suzuki GSXS is marketed as having "Low RPM Assist" so probably is a newish thing.

 

Thanks - I googled "low rpm assist" and found a review of the '17 SV650 where they had this to say about it:

 

"A new feature on the 2017 SV650A is a clutch-activated low-RPM assist system. The assist feature is activated by the clutch, which communicates to the ECU and raises the engine RPM when the clutch begins to engage. The system helps the motorcycle get rolling from a stop, lessening the chance of a stall off the line. Aimed at new riders who've likely never even driven or ridden a vehicle with a manual transmission, the low-RPM assist is designed to lower the barriers to entry to riding.

Experienced riders will hardly notice the system working.  We tested it out by intentionally keeping the throttle closed from a dead stop while smoothly releasing the clutch lever and the system worked as advertized to get the motorcycle moving with little to no clutch/throttle coordination."

https://rideapart.com/articles/2017-suzuki-sv650a-first-ride

 

And from Suzuki's website on the new GSX-R1000:

"The innovative Suzuki Low RPM Assist System smooths take-offs and reduces the chance of the rider stalling the motorcycle. If necessary, the ECM raises engine RPM slightly for a smoother start when the clutch is released so it’s easier to ride away from a stop or navigate at very low speeds in traffic."

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product Lines/Cycles/Products/GSX-R1000/2017/GSXR1000.aspx?d=1#Features

 

 

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doesnt seem to have any connection to the clutch...my engine speed increases by that 250 rpm when i put it in 1st, pop it back into neutral and idle drops.

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Perhaps your clutch lever is poorly adjusted. There is definitely a switch in the clutch lever that activates the rpm rise. If your lever is pulled all the way in, switching between N and 1st should not cause a change in rpm. 

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hmmm, have to double check that....but then that means the engine revs between each gear change everytime i pull on the clutch? get back to ya later on this one...

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Okay, I stand corrected. Obviously, using only two fingers to pull in the clutch I am not pulling it in all the way to the grip, so I see the rpm rise when I put it in gear...but the switch obviously detects the gear lever  also because there is no change when in neutral. 

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That's one thing that lets me know I haven't pulled the clutch in far enough if I'm holding it in. It's much more useful in that respect for me.


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On ‎07‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 9:32 PM, GatorGreg said:

It would be weird if the 800X doesn't have it too - I would think.

 

It has it. Only as you release the clutch though and quite difficult to tell as the LCD tacho doesn't show you small movements.

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There is a micro switch near the pivot on the clutch lever.  You can clearly see it, and hear the little button get pushed in when you pull the lever in.  The ECM knows what gear the bike is in, and only increases the rpm in first gear.  It has nothing to do with the actual clutch basket, plates, and springs.

Keep in mind that a 250 rpm increase is absolutely nothing compared to how much it increases with just a small twist of the throttle.  In my opinion, it's basically useless...a good idea, but not enough rpm to make any difference.  Take this test...go start your bike, and using the throttle, try to increase the rpm by only 250...hell even 500.  It's very difficult.  Even when you barely crack the throttle and ease the clutch out to take off gently, if you watch the tach, you'll see that you're generally giving it 1000 to 2000 rpm.

 

Again, this is just my opinion, but I don't think 250 rpm will ever prevent the bike from stalling, if one fails to give it any throttle.

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1 hour ago, DriverDave said:

There is a micro switch near the pivot on the clutch lever.  You can clearly see it, and hear the little button get pushed in when you pull the lever in.  The ECM knows what gear the bike is in, and only increases the rpm in first gear.  It has nothing to do with the actual clutch basket, plates, and springs.

Keep in mind that a 250 rpm increase is absolutely nothing compared to how much it increases with just a small twist of the throttle.  In my opinion, it's basically useless...a good idea, but not enough rpm to make any difference.  Take this test...go start your bike, and using the throttle, try to increase the rpm by only 250...hell even 500.  It's very difficult.  Even when you barely crack the throttle and ease the clutch out to take off gently, if you watch the tach, you'll see that you're generally giving it 1000 to 2000 rpm.

 

Again, this is just my opinion, but I don't think 250 rpm will ever prevent the bike from stalling, if one fails to give it any throttle.

 

Depends how fast you let out the clutch. On both my 8th and 5th I can release it slow enough to roll from an idle. The 8th can be let out much faster without stalling than the 5th (in that scenario.)

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Obviously if you release it slow enough, you can get any bike moving from idle.  I meant if an average rider does a normal take-off from a stop (not trying to sprint off the line) without any throttle, that extra 250 rpm isn't enough to keep it from stalling...especially with how tall first gear is on most modern sporty bikes.

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I wonder why Honda invested time & money (and therefore reduced the profit on their sales) on this little feature if it "doesn't work".

 

Do we have any members who know someone in a position in Honda somewhere in the world who could answer the question of what this is for/why?

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I don't recall this feature being a selling point.

 

I find it difficult even to find a magazine review that mentions it.

 

There is a small chance, in my opinion, which could be entirely wrong, that this feature was installed to make up for some kind of off-idle fueling issue caused by steps to meet emissions regulations.  But to be clear, I'm saying this in an informational vacuum.

 

Has anyone seen reference to this in the Service Manual?  Wording there might offer a hint.

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11 hours ago, DriverDave said:

Obviously if you release it slow enough, you can get any bike moving from idle.  I meant if an average rider does a normal take-off from a stop (not trying to sprint off the line) without any throttle, that extra 250 rpm isn't enough to keep it from stalling...especially with how tall first gear is on most modern sporty bikes.

 

I agree with you but I don't think the Honda system was designed to prevent stalling without using ANY throttle.  I think it was designed to just help noobs get going - kind of like when you're teaching your kid how to ride a bike and you give them a gentle shove in the back :tongue:  And for more experienced riders it can help provide for an even smoother launch.

 

If you read what Suzuki says about their version which I quoted above and will put here below as well, they don't say it will prevent stalling.  Suzuki only uses words and phrases like: "smooths", "reduces the chance", and "easier".

 

"The innovative Suzuki Low RPM Assist System smooths take-offs and reduces the chance of the rider stalling the motorcycle. If necessary, the ECM raises engine RPM slightly for a smoother start when the clutch is released so it’s easier to ride away from a stop or navigate at very low speeds in traffic."

 

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1 hour ago, Rectaltronics said:

I don't recall this feature being a selling point.

 

I find it difficult even to find a magazine review that mentions it.

 

There is a small chance, in my opinion, which could be entirely wrong, that this feature was installed to make up for some kind of off-idle fueling issue caused by steps to meet emissions regulations.  But to be clear, I'm saying this in an informational vacuum.

 

Has anyone seen reference to this in the Service Manual?  Wording there might offer a hint.

 

I also don't remember seeing Honda (or the press) mention it anywhere when the VFR800 (or any other Honda) was launched.  Interesting that Suzuki on the other hand makes a semi-big deal about their "innovative Suzuki Low RPM Assist System" on their website.  Maybe Honda was afraid they'd be criticized or made fun of for putting what are essentially electronic training wheels on their bikes? :tongue:

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Would be more useful if they made it increase by 500rpm in every gear -- then my cack-handed attempts at throttle blipping wouldn't be necessary.

 

Though they're probably not necessary anyway. Do many people here do it?

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1 hour ago, fink said:

Always blip the throttle when downshifting. 

 

+1 always have, always will

 

John McGuiness used to switch the autoblipper off and do it himself, his brain was also hard wired to always do it

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