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Chain Mileage


lazyeye

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3 minutes ago, BusyLittleShop said:

have you notice a wet chain allows more muck to stick than a dry chain??? 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I haven't, my wet chain is always clean. :)

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20 hours ago, Dustin said:
20 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:
Auto Oilers were invented before the O ring chain... they were never designed to extend the life of our modern X ring chains... 

It sure does wonders to keep my chain clean and free of rust in winter. :)

 

Hondas are noted for their oil tight engines and an auto oiler defeats years of learned engineering with an aftermarket  running oil leak in the name of rust prevention... oh the humanity of it all...

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34 minutes ago, BusyLittleShop said:

an auto oiler defeats years of learned engineering with an aftermarket  running oil leak in the name of rust prevention...

 

No

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5 hours ago, BusyLittleShop said:

 

Negative... the original designer wanted keep his chain lube during his days as a London Bike Courier besides have you notice a wet chain allows more muck to stick than a dry chain??? 

 

 

 

 

Negative......   the oil used in a chain oiler is lighter and is as such that it is supposed to be flung off, hence cleaning and lubing the chain. Unlike spray on which is anti fling properties where all the crap is stuck to the chain.  

 

Have been fortunate enough to be able to run two bikes together and did the with and without oiler.    The chain with the oiler needed less adjustment, was much cleaner and lasted longer, much longer than the chain lube bike.  Both flung but the chain spray one was much harder to clean. 

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10 hours ago, jhenley17 said:

 


Are the sprockets also 520? That'd be my only concern. Otherwise, at 20k, I couldn't find any signs of wear on my stock sprockets and would have left them if I hadn't been looking for shorter overall gearing. I replaced with steel (I see no need for and don't understand why people use aluminum on street bikes) and expect to be able to use the same sprockets when my new chain wears out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

No difference on the sprockets, for 520 or 525 according to various suppliers on the interweb? The 525 is just a bit heavier and for a more powerful bike although, again according to suppliers, chain technology has surpassed the original differences

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That's interesting, I wouldn't have thought a 525 and 520 sprocket were the same. I agree, thought, that a 520 chain is just fine for a 100-HP bike.


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Ummmm...  No, there is a physical difference between 520, 525 and 530 chains.   All three have the same pitch (distance between pins, in this case 5/8") and roller diameter (0.4"), but the widths between the side plates on these chains are all different: 520 = 1/4"; 525 = 5/16"; 530 = 3/8"  So, a larger chain will physically fit onto smaller sprockets (not that you would want to do that--it would have 1/16" extra side-play), but, I would have thought, not the other way 'round.  So if a shop fit a chain with 6.35mm between the side plates onto sprockets designed for a chain with 7.94mm between the side plates, I'd be complaining--as well as amazed it fit at all.

 

Ciao,

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13 hours ago, fink said:

Negative......   the oil used in a chain oiler is lighter and is as such that it is supposed to be flung off, hence cleaning and lubing the chain.

 

You may believe your chain is clean but wipe it with a white rag and solvent and see the road grime and lube mix (red area) you're missing... Chains are a pain but an Auto Oiler running oil leak makes a mess on your bike in excess oil "flung off" with 0.0 benefit to the critical pin and roller junction which dictates chain life...  like you say, lighter lube is supposed to be flung off... unfortunately it can't help flinging off on your tire, your brake, your wheel, your bags,  A modern X ring chain never needs a running oil leak to give good service...

 

What we are actually lubing are the external roller and between the roller and the sprockets (red area in my drawing)... we are not lubing the X rings
nor behind the X rings so any oil applied in that effort is wasted fling off...

14746956046_fb75bdf189.jpg

 

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It’s cleaner than a chain where spray on has been used. 

 

The Red chain lube area is required to  “clean and lubricate “the external part of the X or O ring.  As I’m sure you will agree the external part of the seal needs to be lubed and cooled in order to prevent its degradation.   Spray on also makes a mess and is much harder to remove in comparison. 

 

 

 

 

he seal(s) retaining the lubrication for one or more rollers fails. Typical causes include: abrasion (such as sand rubbing between the seal and one of the plates); friction (heat generated by inadequate lubrication external to the seals as the plates rub against them); weathering and age (seal dries out, cracks), or other stresses (such as chemical exposure to naphtha or other harsh chemicals).

The primary way to keep this kind of failure from occurring is to keep the chain (and thus the seals) free of sand, dirt and other contaminants via regular cleaning, and to keep it lubricated appropriately externally as well (to minimize the friction at the seal/plate interface, and to help keep the seals in good shape).

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I agree with JZH...

 

Chain Pitch and width are in 8ths of an inch... between the 520 and
525 and 530 there is no difference in roller dia or pin dia or tensile
strength... the difference is only in the roller width...the greater
the roller width the longer the chain last with the factory installed
grease sealed behind the oil rings...

 

ChainSpecs.jpg

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59 minutes ago, BusyLittleShop said:

 

What we are actually lubing are the external roller and between the roller and the sprockets (red area in my drawing)... we are not lubing the X rings
nor behind the X rings so any oil applied in that effort is wasted fling off...

 

 

I don't think anybody here has ever claimed that a chain oiler lubes behind the rings or anything like that. Like I've said before, the running oil leak I installed provides me with a palpable benefit for the riding I do in the climate I live.

 

If I rode a garage queen and lived in a dust bowl like you, I'm certain I wouldn't use a chain oiler either.

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6 hours ago, fink said:

As I’m sure you will agree the external part of the seal needs to be lubed and cooled in order to prevent its degradation. 

 

 

 

I don't agree because my actual experiments show that our X ring
(industry standard) can be all wet on the outside (red area) but all
dry on the inside because the chains plates hold the X ring in tension
which is an effective seal like our fork seals, caliper seals, and dip
stick... if we just drop oil on X ring while it is held in tension by
the plates that oil will not creep to lube it... it has no where to go
except to be flung off onto our bike...

 

14746956046_fb75bdf189.jpg

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So your going against what the manufacturers are stating then..

 

The X rings are lubed (as in are not bone dry) prior to the construction of the chain (which also like any other seal needs to be "wet" prior to installation in order for it to be effective). The external lube is to help clean the chain and to lubricate the external part of the X/O ring (parts open to the air) not the internal parts.

As I'm sure you will agree the chain gets hot whilst in use. In order for it to maintain its integrity, or that of its sealing components those components need to be lubricated  1 to reduce friction , 2 to reduce any heat produced by the friction there is.  This is done internally by the grease used upon construction, but also must be done externally by external methods as recommended by the manufacturers, by initially using gear oil decades ago, which has since progressed onto spray on lubes and chain oilers.

 

DID Chains

1.5 to 2 TImes Longer Wear Resistance
(Compared with Normal O-Ring)
The X-Ring’s four contact points greatly increase its sealing performance. This keeps the dirt out and the lubrication in much better than any other O-Ring. X-Rings have the greatest wear resistance of any other type of O-Ring or Non-O-Ring chain.

 

Afam Chains

To extend the life of your chain you have to lubricate your chain regularly. This depends on the driving conditions, your chain should never run dry. In dry driving conditions lubricate after 500 to 600 km. Do not use too sticky grease but a good fluid and penetrating lubricant. Lubricate all moving parts and do not forget to lubricate along the X-rings.

 

 

 

Can you give us some more insight to your experiments show us some more of your data and workings?

 

My personal experimentation was two bikes with new chains and sprockets running same route, one with oiler and other with chain lube.      Results were that over near enough same mileage (18K miles) covered the bike using propriety Chain Lube at the recommended mileage had to have its chain adjusted more frequently  and took much longer  to clean than the one using a Scottoiler set correctly.   The chain lube needed a chemical cleaner, compared to soap and water and occasional spray of WD40 of the chain oiler.

 

 

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On 1/2/2018 at 3:05 PM, Dustin said:

If I rode a garage queen and lived in a dust bowl like you, I'm certain I wouldn't use a chain oiler either.

 

I do and I do for you kids and this is the thanks I receive???

 

Mercy Dustin does this look like I ride a garage queen or live in a dust bowl???

RC45OilPressGauge.JPG

MrRC45TahoeBendyBits05.jpg

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On 1/3/2018 at 9:08 AM, fink said:

Can you give us some more insight to your experiments show us some more of your data and workings

 

It's an easy experiment anyone can duplicate... lube chain... run bike... bust master link apart and note how

the chains plates hold the X ring in tension and make an effective 4 point seal and any external oil does not creep

beyond the 4 points to lube it... 

 

14746956046_fb75bdf189.jpg

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1 hour ago, BusyLittleShop said:

 

It's an easy experiment anyone can duplicate... lube chain... run bike... bust master link apart and note how

the chains plates hold the X ring in tension and make an effective 4 point seal and any external oil does not creep

beyond the 4 points to lube it... 

 

14746956046_fb75bdf189.jpg

 

Have you read the rest of the post? 

 

It says exactly what you have said there.. 

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1 hour ago, Marvelicious said:

Phew... so, what brand of tires does everyone like... :tongue:

Don’t forget to ask which is the best oil. 

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Sudden influx of non 8th gen visitors, Hi there.  :cheerleader:Must be like watching shite drying on your pages if your interested in what’s going on over here and thats the sum total of  your contribution to the discussion. :tongue::comp13:.  :biggrin:

 

Keep it on the black stuff boys. :wheel:

 

 

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You can try, but you can't hide a VFR-related technical discussion from me, mate...

 

Ciao,

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13 hours ago, fink said:

Sudden influx of non 8th gen visitors, Hi there.  :cheerleader:Must be like watching shite drying on your pages if your interested in what’s going on over here and thats the sum total of  your contribution to the discussion. :tongue::comp13:.  :biggrin:

 

Keep it on the black stuff boys. :wheel:

 

 

 

They're only jealous m8. :goofy:

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13 hours ago, fink said:

Must be like watching shite drying on your pages if your interested in what’s going on over here and thats the sum total of  your contribution to the discussion. :tongue::comp13:.  :biggrin:

 

 

 

 

 

Watch wher yer pointin yer submarine ye fanny; this is VFRD :tongue::beer::goofy:

 

 

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And oh remember, they called me clever Dutch bastid cloggy in South Queensferry (just across from the naval docks where they build the HMS Q E) :goofy: 

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