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5th & 6th VFR 800 Header build

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hell for a system like that it would almost be worth it to just buy a old rough vfr and have it dropped off for fitment ( would be cheaper than shipping mine there anyways)

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7 hours ago, thtanner said:

 

Come now, you don't want to spend twice the value of the bike getting it there? 😉 

It is for our UK friends to step up on that one.

 

If it didn't already look like we had a good as certain header on the way, I would have made the journey this weekend and dropped off my 5g.  If it doesn't materialise, I will indeed do so.

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1 hour ago, kave said:

 

If it didn't already look like we had a good as certain header on the way, I would have made the journey this weekend and dropped off my 5g.  If it doesn't materialise, I will indeed do so.

If the other fabricators don't pull through with a quality part we're happy to get cracking on this once we have someone willing to donate a bike and pay for the first set. 

 

The bonus of us producing them is that we can then supply in Inconel and Titanium by request. 

 

Keep me updated 👍🏽

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If the other fabricators don't pull through with a quality part we're happy to get cracking on this once we have someone willing to donate a bike and pay for the first set. 
 
The bonus of us producing them is that we can then supply in Inconel and Titanium by request. 
 
Keep me updated 
I'll be happy to pay for the first set Louis, that is just how much I want things to start rolling!

To the guy(s) that actually had a oem header wrapped and ready to go, what what the weight of it?
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We need to know a few details before we get moving just so everything is understood and clear for us as well as you guys. 

 

Preferably we would want to develop them on a bike as there may be a slightly better route than the one which the stock headers take a and also it is better for us to perfect the fitment and clearance of other parts. 

 

- What material (304, 316, titanium, inconel)

- Material thickness

- Bore size

- Collector style (Pressed or properly cut and fabricated race collectors)

- Slip joints, with springs or with clamps?

- Finish (seamless un-welded finish, brushed finish, fully polished finish, brushed with raw welds)

 

Price point? All of these factors will account into costing.

 

The production of the jig will cost us hours in time to produce also.

 

Realistically the cheapest variant we could produce from Stainless would be around the £900-1000 unless we had 10+ upfront orders with deposits paid then we could workout a better cost.

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Thanks for jumping on this, Louis. Your company makes good gear. 

 

I’m based over 2 hours from you but the bike (1998 5th Gen) is in bits and not roadworthy. It won’t be finished for another two months. 

 

If someone on here has a van/flatbed and willing to drive the bike from Loughborough to Pocklington I’m willing to lend it to CSK.

 

Failing that, I’ve just bought a spare engine (that I could drive up myself) but I feel CSK would prefer the bike for routing/clearance purposes. Also have my rusty old 1998 OEM headers (still attached to the bike, but I could remove them for this project). 

 

Just to be clear I cannot afford a header like this - not even close. But I’m happy to lend my bike as a jig so others with deeper pockets can purchase. 

 

Louis, when you say a better price can be had via group buy (10+ deposits etc), what sort of money are you talking? What’s the price differential between stainless (304-316), inconel and titanium? What are the benefits of clamps vs springs or the various metals? 

 

Finally, is there a performance difference between mandrel bent vs welded segment headers? The system is not visible with fairings so bling doesn’t really matter. Whatever is cheaper would probably be best. 

 

Best, 

 

Stray 

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I'll put my hand up and say that - if the headers are produced, AND make measurable gains (HP), and losses) weight), I'll stump up a deposit for a set.

 

As you'd imagine, it would only be a deposit (I wouldn't be handing over big $ in advance of something which may never materialise, and would only hand over any $ with the understanding that the deposit is fully refundable if the headers don't every actually get produced.

 

Can't lend my bike, given exorbitant shipping costs between Oz and the other side of the world.

 

Naturally, there's a lot of water to go under the bridge before anything happens on this front.

 

As a start, can one of the experts on exhaust flow pipe up with some indicative specs (I think some primary ID and OD sizes have been posted elsewhere in one of the header threads). 

 

I'm guessing that most - like me - would prefer to retain the centre stand (or at least have the ability to have it there if required)?

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Just a refresh of sorts here in what happen.  In the short of it, the gentleman that was able to make the header at the time was going to make them up as ordered.  on a one on one.   Then as time had it,  it was taking longer to confirm what was what.  Gabe then had the opportunity to launched his full time business out of his garage to his shop, Then it got down to for him to proceed here,  he would need 10 paid up front orders to makes this happen. if that wasn't enough, the 6th gen that was going to be used as a mock up bike didn't materialize, so all i was left with is what I had come up with, and that for the most part was for 5th gens. I have the tubing size how it goes etc, etc.  But the hang up was $10,000  as these where also going to run  $1000 plus shipping. So it fell to the way side.  That said, I do know the header with a ECU up grade will add like 3-5hp, 2 ft of torque.  I know that doesn't sound like much,  but it's more than that. it actually transforms how the engine behaves all through out the RPM range.  But as it would be,  things just fell off the grid to the point now Gabe isn't interested in doing this.  if you have Instagram, you can see his work go here https://www.instagram.com/rampage_fab/    would of loved to see this happen.  So close. 

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I'll try to cover everyone's responses here...

 

@Stray We would ideally need the bike yes, nice of you to offer on behalf of the group. 

 

Price wise for 10+ we would have to work out once we had a bike and the first set made up just so we know exactly how long it takes to produce and how quick they could be made in batches.

 

Price difference is as follows for stainless, inconel & titanium.

 

304 - £18/m 

316 - £22/m

Inconel - £129.99/m 

Titanium - £129.99/m

 

Titnanium and inconel take approx 1.5x more manufacturing time. Pie cut systems can be even more so. 

 

The only difference between clamps and springs is that you get a little more movement in the system with springs. 

 

We don't have a mandrel bender as there is only 3 people to our team. Everything would have to be made up of sections, The good thing is that with our welds being back purged and fully penetrating it leaves the same clean join on the inside as it does on the outside which won't limit the system noticeably at all.  

 

@EX-XX In regards to taking deposits I think we need to get a bike in before anything so we can price it accurately and calculate the time we would need to create the jig too, but we don't mess around with jobs as we have tonnes to do so if a bike appeared and someone is paying for the headers they will be built 100%.

 

How is the exhaust involved with the centre stand? I don't know the bikes so not sure on where everything sits. If there is a mount that's needed we can make it work. 

 

Finally @RVFR please could you get the spec list over to me for tube sizing, tube length, basically everything you've got on the matter would be awesome. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

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@LouisWhiteCSK Yes, probably best you get hold of a 5th Gen to measure up etc. One of the considerations in designing headers for these - and any other "Sports Touring" motorcycle which has a centre stand - is the need to route the exhaust so it allows the centre stand to be used and stored through the full range of motion.

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21 hours ago, RVFR said:

Just a refresh of sorts here in what happen.  In the short of it, the gentleman that was able to make the header at the time was going to make them up as ordered.  on a one on one.   Then as time had it,  it was taking longer to confirm what was what.  Gabe then had the opportunity to launched his full time business out of his garage to his shop, Then it got down to for him to proceed here,  he would need 10 paid up front orders to makes this happen. if that wasn't enough, the 6th gen that was going to be used as a mock up bike didn't materialize, so all i was left with is what I had come up with, and that for the most part was for 5th gens. I have the tubing size how it goes etc, etc.  But the hang up was $10,000  as these where also going to run  $1000 plus shipping. So it fell to the way side.  That said, I do know the header with a ECU up grade will add like 3-5hp, 2 ft of torque.  I know that doesn't sound like much,  but it's more than that. it actually transforms how the engine behaves all through out the RPM range.  But as it would be,  things just fell off the grid to the point now Gabe isn't interested in doing this.  if you have Instagram, you can see his work go here https://www.instagram.com/rampage_fab/    would of loved to see this happen.  So close. 

bummer on this front, like throwing away money, donated $$$ for nothing.

 

on a side note of that, Louis if this happens I am on board for a system for my 6 gen. money has been set aside for 2 years now

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19 hours ago, LouisWhiteCSK said:

 

We don't have a mandrel bender as there is only 3 people to our team. Everything would have to be made up of sections, The good thing is that with our welds being back purged and fully penetrating it leaves the same clean join on the inside as it does on the outside which won't limit the system noticeably at all.  

 

Finally @RVFR please could you get the spec list over to me for tube sizing, tube length, basically everything you've got on the matter would be awesome. 

 

Louis,

I'll jump in here to give a bit of background... This super header wish list has been going on for around 3 years. Originally there was about 25 members saying they would pony up a deposit on a performance header set. It has been passed around by a handful of members that were out to get it done. The original model was simular to the 2 Brothers Racing company that made a header for our bikes for a few years and quit. Somewhere in the hundreds of posts/threads here is a preferred spec on tube diameters. Also part of the wishlist is to be able to use the header on the 5th gen and 6th bikes - generally 1998 to (help me guys) 2010 VFR800s. The architecture of the engines is near identical, but the 6ths are slightly different on the rear ports. (Again, help me 6th genners.) 

 

A consensus on anything is tough going. Possibly some of us may want to ceramic coat the header for heat control so that points to a stainless construction. Inconel or titanum is way too costly for us..... Also plenty of us want to use the current aftermarket silencer exhaust we already have. 

General question... you mentioned you dont have a mandrel.... producing 1 of anything is ok for a prototype build, but can you build 25 (or 40) identical copies? Your work is beautiful, but I know from experience, its a tough job on a small production run. 

- Can you guys do any CAD work? If you could look at making this for the 2014 to current 8th gen, (different front downpipes) you would have a bigger market. CAD models of the 3 bikes would probably help greatly. 

 

Cheers :beer:

 

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I'm just gonna jump in to mention that Delkevic uses the same rear downtubes and collector parts in their system for all the 800 models. 

 

They swap out the front tubes for 2014+ models (which are curved to the outsides like the RC30 vs forward like 98-09 VFR800). They use 35mm OD 1.5mm wall tubing for 1998+ VFR systems.

 

Their collector sucks but the bends are nice, and the modular concept is a smart move for production. 

 

Taking a page from their book re: modularity and tubing size but replacing the collector with a proper set of triple Y merges would be ideal.

 

 

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Hi Louis - welcome to vfrd and the VFR community. We are glad to see that you have joined up. As many have expressed, we are also happy to discover a proficient exhaust fabricator who is interested in our project.

 

Following on to mello dude's recap and Sebspeed's suggestions in posts above, there does exist a 'consensus design' that generated interest in the form of a  list of 25 members who wanted to purchase headers. The consensus is old and may be subject to revision, but it was what VFR owners wanted at one time. Louis, the bullet points below are suggestions, and are presented for your consideration and evaluation. Here are the specs, in no particular order:

 

[1] header final collector exits at OEM position, with the same o.d. as o.d. of the sleeve gasket that fits between

     OEM header and OEM muffler

     [allows use of aftermarket midpipes and mufflers built for OEM headers]

 

[2] header designed to fit both 5th gen and 6th gen VFR800s

      [a] see note below regarding fitment similarities between the gens

      8th gen with its front mounted radiator can be accommodated with modular front primaries. 5th and 6th

      gens have side mounted radiators

 

 [3] header assembly has two short primary stubs mounted to front cylinder head with spring fitting connection

      to modular front primaries

      [see Sebspeed's post]

 

[4] rear J-shaped primaries bolt directly to rear head with OEM-type flanges [no stubs]

 

[5] header constructed of 18g 304 stainless steel tubing with 35.6mm ID primary tubing, 39mm ID secondary

      tubing, 49mm ID collector discharge

     [diameters derived from TBR headers and VFR community]

 

[6] header is constructed with two bungs for O2 sensors in OEM positions, supplied with plugs for those who

     won't be using O2 sensors

     [OEM bungs are located on secondary tubes downstream of primary tubes' merge point]

 

[7] header design maintains placement and operation of OEM center stand

 

[8] connections at tubing joints are slip-fits with spring tension

 

[9] final header assembly connects to muffler assembly by band-type clamp with threaded bolt tension

 

The Two Brothers racing header - now out of production and extremely difficult to obtain - is used as a reference because it is a known quantity; a number of members have TBR headers and greatly enjoy the performance gains they produce. This header does not produce an enormous leap in top-end horsepower or torque, rather, its primary benefit is a meaty boost in midrange power, torque, and throttle response. The benefit is felt strongly between 6000rpm and 10,000rpm - the exact range where we enthusiastically revel in our modest road-going machines and the power delivery of their V4 engines. Note - 5th and 6th gens both redline at 11,800rpm.

 

One member has a TBR header assembly in good condition, off the bike, and has graciously offered to provide it for measurements and modeling if it advances the production of a performance header for our VFRs.

 

Fitment notes:

The different model years, or 'gens' [5th gens are 1998-2001, 6th gens are 2002-2009 in the US, 6th gens are 2002-2013 worldwide] use the same engine configuration, and exhausts are interchangeable between them. Many people run headers from 98-99 VFRs on 2000-2001 5th gens and 6th gens because the 98/99 headers have slightly larger diameter primaries and no catalytic converter. The 98/99 headers save significant weight, however their performance gains are negligible, thus the present effort to create an exhaust that matches or exceeds the performance of the proven Two Brothers system. [Side note: 2000-2001 VFR800s are 5th gen, but use the same type catalytic converter-equipped headers as the 6th gen]
 
5th gens have gear driven cams. 6th gens use chain driven cams, so 6th gens have cam chain tensioners, the rear of which protrudes slightly backward from the right side of the rear cylinder head. This 6th gen rear tensioner sits uncomfortably close to and sometimes touches the exhaust when using 5th gen headers on a 6th gen. An exhaust that safely clears the rear 6th gen cam chain tensioner would be best, as it would easily fit both gens.
 
Here is a photo of the TBR header next to an Erion header. The Erion unit does not directly pertain, it just happens to be in the photo of a TBR that fell most easily to hand.

Hi Louis - welcome to vfrd and the VFR community. We are glad to see that you have joined up. As many have expressed, we are also happy to discover a proficient exhaust fabricator who is interested in our project.

 

Following on to mello dude's recap and Sebspeed's suggestions in posts above, there does exist a 'consensus design' that generated interest in the form of a  list of 25 members who wanted to purchase headers. The consensus is old and may be subject to revision, but it was what VFR owners wanted at one time. Louis, the bullet points below are suggestions, and are presented for your consideration and evaluation. Here are the specs, in no particular order:

 

[1] final header collector exits at OEM position, with the same o.d. as the o.d. of the sleeve gasket that fit

     between OEM header assembly and OEM muffler

     [allows use of aftermarket midpipes and mufflers that fit OEM headers]

 

[2] header fits both 5th gen and 6th gen VFR800s

      [a] see note below regarding fitment similarities between the gens

      8th gen with its front mounted radiator can be accommodated with modular front primaries.

      [5th and 6th gens have side mounted radiators]

 

 [3] header assembly has short primary stubs mounted to front cylinder head with spring fitting connection to

     modular front primaries [see Sebspeed's post]

 

[4] rear J-shaped primaries bolt directly to rear head with OEM-type flanges [no stubs]

 

[5] 18g 304 stainless steel tubing with 35.6mm ID primary tubing, 39mm ID secondary tubing,

     49mm ID collector discharge [diameters derived from TBR headers]

 

[6] two bungs for O2 sensors in OEM positions, supplied with plugs for those who won't be using O2 sensors

     [OEM bungs are located on secondary tubes downstream of primary tubes' merge point]

 

[7] maintain placement and operation of OEM center stand

 

[8] connections at tubing joints are slip-fits with spring tension

 

[9] final header assembly connects to muffler assembly by band-type clamp with threaded bolt tension

 

The Two Brothers racing header - now out of production and extremely difficult to find - is used as a reference because it is a known quantity - a number of members have TBR headers and enjoy the performance gains they produce. This header does not produce a significant increase in top-end horsepower or torque. Its primary benefit is a fat boost in midrange power, torque, and throttle response. The benefit is felt between 6000rpm and 10,000rpm - the range where we enthusiastically revel in our modest machines and the power delivery of their V4 engines. 5th and 6th gens redline at 11,800rpm.

 

A member has a TBR header assembly in good condition, off the bike, and is willing to provide it for measurements and modeling if it advances the production of a performance header for the VFR.

 

Fitment:

The different model years, or 'gens' [5th gens are 1998-2001, 6th gens are 2002-2009] use the same engine configuration, and exhausts are interchangeable between them. Many people run headers from 98-99 VFRs on 2000-2001 5th gens and 6th gens because the 98/99 headers have slightly larger diameter primaries and no catalytic converter. The 98/99 headers save significant weight, however their performance gains are negligible, thus the present effort to create an exhaust that matches or exceeds the performance of the proven Two Brothers system.
[Side note: 2000-2001 VFR800s are 5th gen, but use catalytic converter-equipped headers like the 6th gen]
 
5th gens have gear driven cams. 6th gens use chain driven cams, so they have cam chain tensioners, the rear of which protrudes slightly backward from the right side of the rear cylinder head. This 6th gen rear cam tensioner sits uncomfortably close to and sometimes touches the exhaust when using 5th gen headers on a 6th gen. An exhaust that safely clears the rear 6th gen cam chain tensioner would be best, as it would easily fit both gens.
 
Here is a photo of the TBR header [on the right] next to an Erion header [on the left]. The Erion unit does not directly pertain, it just happened to be in a fairly clear photo of the TBR:

gallery_2785_5165_562057.thumb.jpg.d2350993954a14335b79bf9e5b4ee578.jpg

 

A look at TBR from another angle:

1792880196_TwoBrothersheaders1.thumb.jpg.8ef699416d2eb0be1efd75bb9ba376f3.jpg

 

And the song goes "A little bit closer now"

e4f88d9cc133f0eec635aa25ac04a484.jpg.65ef3ab8bc1d1ab212e5165bf400b7a3.jpg

 

Here are 1998-1999 OEM VFR headers

98_99_header_1.thumb.JPG.95c417b445438ca94ba6a14932797b17.JPG

98_99_header_2.thumb.JPG.893b845cf5146e4fd8a149da34b21c3f.JPG

 

Last, and probably least, 6th gen headers [Sorry 6th gen dudes, these could just as well be 2000-2001 5th gen headers]:

6th_gen_header_1.thumb.JPG.2ec80b34379cdeefa3a9ba106db0e583.JPG

6th_gen_header_2.thumb.JPG.36b8d68ba497c55eb7bfdc967edab7ce.JPG

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6 hours ago, SEBSPEED said:

I'm just gonna jump in to mention that Delkevic uses the same rear downtubes and collector parts in their system for all the 800 models. 

 

They swap out the front tubes for 2014+ models (which are curved to the outsides like the RC30 vs forward like 98-09 VFR800). They use 35mm OD 1.5mm wall tubing for 1998+ VFR systems.

 

Their collector sucks but the bends are nice, and the modular concept is a smart move for production. 

 

Taking a page from their book re: modularity and tubing size but replacing the collector with a proper set of triple Y merges would be ideal.

 

 

Seems to me this is crucial for any prospective manufacturer. The problem is always going to be cost of design/manufacture vs size of market and since in this case it wouldn't impact on performance, modularity just HAS to be the way to go.

 

I could do with some clarification though. Is the collector outlet the same on the 5th Gen as the 6th Gen? Obviously completely different systems downstream, but is the collector actually interchangeable?

 

The reason I ask is because my requirement for such an exhaust is to suit an 800 special I'm building which will have the 6th Gen high level rear end, but as a naked bike will need the front rad of the 8th Gen and hence the wide spaced front downtubes. Seems to me from what Seb says, this could be done by piecing together Delkevic parts. But how do they use the same collector, unless the outlet is actually the same for the 5th and 6th Gens. Or do they use the same actual collector but have different outlets that can be attached?. Hence my question.

 

Actually another thought. Why do Honda cross the pipes over. Since they cross both front and back it doesn't change the merge order, so why do it. I can't see any obvious reason. Anyone?

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Thanks for all the information guys.

 

In terms of production we could probably make 10 per week and they would all be identical or near as dammit due to the jig and the measurements that partner with the jig. Much higher quality than any factory produced exhaust systems. 

 

Basically for us to move forward now we need a bike, preferably a 6th gen. 

 

Also we would need someone willing to foot the bill for the first set and the jig production. If we had orders in place we could probably ignore the cost of the jig production. 

 

If we can arrange a bike to be here we can start work on this on the 26th November and have a jig by Friday the 30th so people can have them under the Christmas tree!

 

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These are an example of our collectors, we produce everything in house and don't like to use pressed ones.

 

They can be made to any size so we would need to calculate the ideal length of the merge.

CSK-Y-Piece-3.jpg

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On 5/15/2018 at 3:49 AM, Rush2112 said:

 

+1

... and on the 8th gen headers pictured they have the rear down pipe slip fit connections backwards; the upstream pipe should fit inside the downstream pipe for optimum exhaust flow.  In addition, with this configuration you are more likely to have leaks and blow by past the slip fit connection. It looks pretty the way they have it but for exhaust gas flow performance it is backwards.

As far as I can make out, you +1'd JZH's comment about Black Widow, but then commented on the Delkevic which indeed seems to have their 8th Gen rear slip joints backwards.

 

It does seem wrong to me, but in reality, does it actually make any difference. Not to the flow as there is the same small gap in the otherwise smooth internal bore. Where that gap then leads is surely incidental. Also, would it affect potential sealing of the joint? Since static pressure is going to be exerted in all directions equally, the only difference would be due to the movement of the gas and like the flow, I don't see how the direction the gap takes could make any difference. Indeed with a perfect seal, it could make no difference.

 

As I said, it does seem wrong to me, but is that in fact just a misguided concern.

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On 10/24/2018 at 9:46 AM, VFROZ said:

I have noticed that all the performance headers for the Tuono V4 are set up the same, including the Akra. 

I think this is something that needs to be settled. Honda pair the Lefts and the Rights as did TBR and Erion before that (same guy I think). Although the Tuono is Fronts and Rears paired, that may not be relevant to our requirement. The Aprilia has a different cylinder angle and I've no idea what the firing order, nor crank angle is. So what works best for Aprilia V4 power may not work for the VFR.

 

So I would tend towards thinking the original Honda merge style would be best. Everyone holds up the TBR as the system to copy and that's what they use so does it not make sense to stick with that?

 

Has this been discussed with BW? Any idea what their intentions are with regard to this aspect?

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5 hours ago, LouisWhiteCSK said:

Thanks for all the information guys.

 

In terms of production we could probably make 10 per week and they would all be identical or near as dammit due to the jig and the measurements that partner with the jig. Much higher quality than any factory produced exhaust systems. 

 

Basically for us to move forward now we need a bike, preferably a 6th gen. 

 

Also we would need someone willing to foot the bill for the first set and the jig production. If we had orders in place we could probably ignore the cost of the jig production. 

 

If we can arrange a bike to be here we can start work on this on the 26th November and have a jig by Friday the 30th so people can have them under the Christmas tree!

 

 

Nailed it, Louis - getting a 6th gen into your hands should be our primary objective. Of course, also getting a 5th gen to to your facility to compare fitment wouldn’t hurt. And it borders on sinister of you to get us thinking about headers under our Christmas trees...you really know how to speak to motorcyclists!

 

As far as raising the funds for the first header,

 

1 - if  this initial prototype is a single order for one exhaust, what will it cost, including jig production?

 

2 - how many orders with what amount deposited per order would you need to have in place to offset the cost of jig production and keep the cost to 900£ or less?

 

3 - what will be your method for testing/refining the initial prototype header to optimize performance and appearance?

 

Question 3 comes up  because a person or persons willing to cough up  the $ £ € ¢ ¥ ₩ or ₽ for a prototype header (several of us here on vfrd and others on vfrworld.com fit this description) wouldn’t want to bear the full brunt of development costs and jigs, then end up with a version 1.0 that doesn’t perform as well or perhaps look as nice as subsequent revisions.

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@sfdownhill

 

1. It's really difficult to put an exact figure on it without having a bike here as we can only guess at whats involved. (£1000-1500)

2. 10+ would need to be in place as jig production can take up the majority of a day to get perfect.

3. We would let the buyer do the testing as we're strictly an exhaust fabrication shop and don't have the facilities.

 

The initial investor can have the end product in exchange for the original and we will sell the original to whomever would like it (someone who hasn't got the £900 budget). 

 

What do you think of that idea?

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Just as a data point, I was very interested in the header development for the VFR's, and actually ponied up a few bucks. But

honestly I just can't see my way clear to being able to seriously consider a new header at the price point that it appears to be

headed towards. It would be nice, no doubt about it, but $1500-$2000 or more, plus shipping from the UK, is too rich for my

blood. I simply don't ride enough to make it realistic. You guys will just have to move on without me. 😞

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2 hours ago, FJ12Ryder said:

Just as a data point, I was very interested in the header development for the VFR's, and actually ponied up a few bucks. But

honestly I just can't see my way clear to being able to seriously consider a new header at the price point that it appears to be

headed towards. It would be nice, no doubt about it, but $1500-$2000 or more, plus shipping from the UK, is too rich for my

blood. I simply don't ride enough to make it realistic. You guys will just have to move on without me. 😞

 

I may well be in the same boat, unfortunately...Notwithstanding that I'll be storing my bike for ~3 years from next June, I already have '99 headers on my '99 5th Gen, which are ceramic coated and backed by a less restrictive Hi-mount slip on. Not at the level these headers would be at, but a reasonable low-cost compromise nonetheless

 

For the few HP gains I might get, I'm not sure I could justify somewhere in the order of $AUD1750-2600 before shipping (which wouldn't be cheap either).

 

Will likely be a viable option for the UK contingent, and well-monied enthusiasts from elsewhere, but I'd struggle to justify it.

 

😞

 

 

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Reference point, for better or worse...

 

Full titanium header with Ti can & midpipe for the RSV4 from Austin Racing is 2000GBP.

 

Performance isn't cheap, custom fab is even less cheap, and V4 headers are a lot more difficult to make than I4 systems. 

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Sounds fair for full Ti.

 

@sfdownhill - epic post, well done!

 

To reiterate, despite how superlative the work Louie and his crew look to produce, I would like to wait and see what BW have to show for themselves, as that's looking a certainty given the recent noises they have been making. 

 

If nothing worthwhile spending money on comes of it, i.e poor quality, poor design, unsubstantiated claims, I will be, without any doubt, dropping my 5th Gen off with the good folks at CSK for some smoking gains.

 

Few more months gents, not long now

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