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5th & 6th VFR 800 Header build


RVFR

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There's a GoFundMe?

 

I've been in on these headers from the beginning, am on the site every couple days and I didn't realize that. Link?

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I think we can agree that Gabe is a talented and very skilled technical guy and welder.  But to start, Jay and Gabe need to build one and mount it and get it on the dyno.  Its a prototype. 

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On 10/8/2017 at 9:59 AM, jim v said:

There's a GoFundMe?

 

I've been in on these headers from the beginning, am on the site every couple days and I didn't realize that. Link?

Hit the GoFundMe page this morning......

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On 10/8/2017 at 5:51 PM, mello dude said:

I think we can agree that Gabe is a talented and very skilled technical guy and welder.  But to start, Jay and Gabe need to build one and mount it and get it on the dyno.  Its a prototype. 

 

This. 

 

 

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Well yes and No,  since the Two Bros proved my point in what I was looking before going to the trouble,  the 5th gen for the most part is figured out.  It's the 6th gen now that really needs the header to be dyno'd.   We know all to well when it comes to the engine,  there's' a lot of difference between the two,  So,  Yea no.  ;)   

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The point in a prototype is not that a copy of Two Bros exhaust makes more power, it is to prove to your potential customers that you are capable and willing to produce the thing that you are selling.  For something that has been vaporware for more than half a decade, this is definitely important.

 

I'm in right after I see the first one come out of the shop.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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5 hours ago, Funkotron said:

Holy cow, that was a lot of reading to catch up on this topic! Hit me up if this continues to move forward!

You'll have to confirm with RVFR, but as I see it, those on the list that are still interested will be taken care of first - in no particular order  -  and then everyone else. 

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I'm still in for a 5th gen setup, but no way is 100% upfront payment for goods yet to be produced going to fly. At most, a 50% payment is fair to cover material costs, etc.

 

I'm just confused, should I go to the kickstarter? Is there a more official way to get this together? I'm happy to pay materials costs and some labor up front, but damn well expect a) a spot in line and b) a general timeline of availability.

 

Giving someone a grand on a whim that it may or may not happen later is ridiculous... almost as bad as giving them $500! But some of us are crazy enough to do that, just need things setup in a transparent way.

 

I may be new here, but this isn't my first rodeo. We have gone all the way to Cosworth to get custom pistons made for our VFR400 race bikes, and I've done a group buy with Sil Moto (a bit over a decade ago now) for 851/888 SBK Spaghetti Exhaust systems.

Yes, I get needing the "commitment" to do a small production run, but no the risk shouldn't 100% be on the buyers. Any good shop will happily make such an arrangement as above to cover materials, and recoup labor (or partial labor) after they're made.

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If you guys are really interested in the project I respectfully suggest that you donate directly to RVFR and not the

GoFundMe thing. That thing charges nearly 10% for the privilege of handling your money. So if you want it to go

to a good cause and not line the pocket of some stupid online company, write a check to RVFR. That's what I did.

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Ok, to help folks understand where I'm at,  a short story re cap 

When this project started over a year ago I was in line to see what came of the TYGA build.  I'm not new to this sort of thing.  So figured I'd look into making a one of header.  Since the go to header was a 2Brothers , Ha finding one? right.  The TYGA deal was a long ways off,  then there was no guarantee how that was going to turn out .  In that the next step was figuring out what was what. Like many here the deal with the TYGA header was to be built along the same lines as the 2 Bro,  thing there was IMO there really wasn't any hard data saying what the gains would be, even though it was the one to have from the rumors. That's when in good timing a light hearted conversation with a guy (Gabe) that builds turbo manifolds filled me in he could make one no problem.  Ah so a bit of this and that, and borrowed a 98-99 header to copy from.  Then the universe lined up where I scored a 2 brothers Header.  Yippie!!!  Once install, I headed to the dyno, only there was some questions with the results,  so some fiddling thinking was figured out.  Whew, what a process, but got the low down on whats what.  In the mean time with the header farting around.  Gabe had it in the beginning to make em once we knew what worked and what twists where needed, on as the orders came in. Now things have changed a bit , in the time it took to figure out things,  Gabe landed a shop and a cool gig making very unique GTR35 bits, Big Money here.  So now he hasn't the time as he once had when we started this. He's still on board still with making em,  but now it's a get 10 committed  orders,  Money.  This makes sense as his plate is getting full,  this is now sort of small potatoes now.  But  Now there's questions on how this will work on a 6th gen. I just found out with a reliable source,  the 5th and 6th gen header do fit including the stock exhaust, now the thing is what's the gains,  so a mock up needs to be made then installed on a 6thgen then dynoed,  that takes time and more funding,  yes I have like $400+ in the go fund me, the work I did on my vfr came out of my pocket.  Gabe needs at least a $1000 for the proto type to be built,  so we're close. Yes I don't expect anyone to pre pay before I /we know what one would be getting.  Once known though.  that's different.  Hope that helps those cursorily interested.  Again we're close. 

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So, from what I've read, this is the low-down:

 

1. Gabe is busy making big money.

2. In the meantime, we need to raise money for a prototype header. If we need $1k, then we're $340 short according to the gofundme.

3. Once we achieve 1k, Gabe eventually fabricates a custom header.

4. RVFR dynos the header and compares to stock to get the power figures.

5. Line up at least 10 buyers to get the ball rolling.

6. Wait until Gabe is free so he can focus on the headers.

 

I guess after that prototype is made, it's smooth sailing from there.

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
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IS ANYTHING HAPPENING WITH THIS PROJECT????

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks Jim for the nuge,  as the holiday season sorta distracted me,  that and...........No, not so much a wild goose chase, more a hunt.

 

Not to be the bearer of bad news, as I'm very frustrated with the turn of events.  I can't quite blame Gabe, yet  SMH. when it gets right down to it it's all about the money which in that i can't run him under the bus as he's not a VFR lover, still. that said. I sorta left it  back in October where i'm looking for a 6th gen to do the mock up making sure all is like it's suppose to be,  I all ready now the ins and outs with the 5th gen. the 6th gen at this price point, I feel  I need it to be spot on with the information making sure all here in the land of VFR know whats what.  these headers where going to be $1000.00 ea plus shipping at last conversation with Gabe back then.

 

Now Gabe, since he has moved from his garage to a first class facility  which took him like 6 months longer than planed, he took on a business partner as well to aid in his interests in making goodies for the GTR 35.  This new guy has a different view on projects from the out side and from what I can tell he is pretty much focused on GTR builds.  unless there's solid moneys to make him think other wise.  Gabe and I had a chat a couple months back when this was still very fresh prior to this new guy being in the mix,  getting a feel for where we left off at. at that time he was pretty certain I'd need to come up with 10 pre orders at $1000ea.  I knew this change was a bitter pill. but worth it IMO,   I've gone this far and thought it out it should be doable to a point.  I  Still had to RD the 6th gen before all is known.   Now there this new attitude where I feel I'm a bother, takes him 3 day to respond to questions, he just doesn't have the focus like he had before now that he is all up and going crazy with a partner building GTR goods,  SMH as good as he with his skill,  this new atmosphere of what he's got going on and this new guy has him getting his button pushed in another direction. On top of this, it took two weeks to get a very simple item mocked up, and it felt like pulling teeth. IDK. There's still hope if and when a 6th gen can be played.  with My schedule has been sorta full of late,  I love  working on projects like this, but it's a passion of love and convenience too.  I dropped another call to two Brothers just to get another feel just last week. I haven't heard back. No surprise. 

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...

So.

I know there are those that have balked at the standard faire Black Widow VFR Header.

But have you guys looked inbetween their standard,  and their race branded headers?
Their GSF650 header for example looks to be the bomb.  

I sent them an email feeler to see if it might go anywhere.  we'll see.

 

s-l1600 (1).jpg

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Wow, we’ve come full circle, 2Bros, Tyga, Custom, and now Black Widow! It’s sad that this project cannot get off the ground for whatever reason. 

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With all this talk and no outcome I couldn't wait any longer and decided to pull the trigger and purchase the delkevic header down pipe .I'm interested with the quality they did a great job. 

   It would be nice to have had a custom one made with better performance, but looks to me it won't happen for awhile ..   if anyone is interested in this kit I have added some pictures . And included measurements.  

20180206_103116.jpg

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20180206_105013.jpg

20180206_103128.jpg

20180206_105403.jpg

20180206_104836.jpg

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"Hello Michael,

 
funnily enough, we were discussing the option of re-developing the entire VFR750 and VFR800 range to our race spec tubing, ie bigger bore and light weight, spring fit etc just last week.
 
We agree that it maybe the time to revisit the VFR range, and give it a refresh.
 
All I can say at this stage is, we will not be doing any more in our old spec, but a higher spec has a high chance of being developed later this year, time permitting.
 
Best regards,
 
Black Widow Exhausts Ltd
8 High Barns, Roxton, Bedfordshire MK44 3ET

www.blackwidowexhausts.co.uk"
________________________________________________________________

"
Good Afternoon Gentlemen,

I see you already have the jigs for the RC46 header and can mass produce them.  Back in the early 2000's Erion racing and Two Brothers racing exhausts built an RC46 header that made between 5-8 extra horsepower by itself.  it wasn't vastly different from the original designs honda use but the primary inner diameters were much larger.  a 98 and probably your standard VFR Header utilize 33mm ID primaries.  the Vtec bikes use a catalyst and 31.5-32mm ID's in stainless.  Two brothers and Erion used 36,  and 38mm ID primaries respectively.  and Both achieved outstanding gains from 3k to redline.  No real suprize considering that's the specs of the RC45 the engine is based upon without respect to the different firing order.  I have at least a dozen gentlemen on the VFR discussion forums,  and perhaps half that more on the VFR World forums that are ready to buy at double what your company charges for their standard faire.

if your company can produce a race ready 36-38mm ID header for the RC46 with the same quality you put into your GSF650 header,  We're ready.

The consensus of gentlemen on the boards agreed on:
 

18 gauge 304 stainless steel with 1.5" tubing primaries, 1.63" tubing secondaries, 2.0" header collector discharge results in:

~35.6 mm ID primaries

~39 mm ID secondaries

~49mm ID header collector discharge


Can you help us?

Respectfully,
Michael Spence"
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21 hours ago, VFRUNNER said:

 

 

20180206_104836.jpg

 

 

That has to be one of the most poorly designed collectors I have ever seen in my life. Why are people still buying these things?

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