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5th & 6th VFR 800 Header build

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They deserve their own thread, separate from all the bs here. 

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16 minutes ago, SEBSPEED said:

They deserve their own thread, separate from all the bs here. 

I agree there is alot of bs, however I wouldnt start a new thread until testing is finished and production is ready to commence so that the company manufacturing it can be shielded from external interferences

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46 minutes ago, SEBSPEED said:

They deserve their own thread, separate from all the bs here. 

 

Good call, Seb. We're just now starting the new thread to get a little separation from the history.

 

 

27 minutes ago, boOZZIE said:

I agree there is alot of bs, however I wouldnt start a new thread until testing is finished and production is ready to commence so that the company manufacturing it can be shielded from external interferences

 

boOZZIE, we're going ahead with the new thread so folks interested in this project won't shy away from the 500+ posts and 22 pages of this existing thread. Because there's a ton of data from past efforts here, in the new thread, we will reference this existing thread.

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I have been waiting for something to eventuate for a long time, it has been a long time, With regards to headers and getting rid of the cat, I have an RC 46 gen 6.My first road bike was a VF750 FD then some years later a VF1000R then I bought the Gen 6 then I saved for years and got the ultimate an RC 30 and had it painted in Rothmans colours and unfortunately had to sell it... I would personally like to see the exhaust on the Left hand side.as per RC 30 and RVF for tradition. But understand it has to come out out on the right. I cant wait to get rid of the weight of the twin pipes from under the seat and fit a single pipe.

 

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Somebody should link the new page to the VFRD FB page. There are folks there who may not be here.


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33 minutes ago, Sweeper said:

Somebody should link the new page to the VFRD FB page. There are folks there who may not be here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Good idea Sweeper. Posting a link/info about these headers on FB is on our to do list. I'm a member of FB VFR Owner's group, but didn't know VFRD had it's own FB page. Does VFRD have a dedicated FB page? If so, I'll check w Duc2V4 and see about getting us up there, too.

 

Here's a link to the VFRD "New headers' thread. Just pointing folks toward it in hopes of lightening thread-tending duties a bit. Thanks!

 

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/88463-new-5th6th8th-gen-performance-header-now-in-production-in-usa/&tab=comments#comment-1091360

 

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1 hour ago, sfdownhill said:

 

Good idea Sweeper. Posting a link/info about these headers on FB is on our to do list. I'm a member of FB VFR Owner's group, but didn't know VFRD had it's own FB page. Does VFRD have a dedicated FB page? If so, I'll check w Duc2V4 and see about getting us up there, too.

 

Here's a link to the VFRD "New headers' thread. Just pointing folks toward it in hopes of lightening thread-tending duties a bit. Thanks!

 

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/88463-new-5th6th8th-gen-performance-header-now-in-production-in-usa/&tab=comments#comment-1091360

 

I think one of the things that has slowed the chatter here is that a lot happens on VFRD FB. It is obviously more on the social side of things VFR. 

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On 12/8/2018 at 5:20 PM, Stray said:

I really hope he did. Jeff didn’t give me too many details on Friday. Was more focused on the new grandchild, understandably. 

 

Let’s see what next week brings. 

 

Sorry i can’t offer any more details guys. I know this is nerve wracking. 

 

Stray

Happy New Year Stray!

 

Any word on the dyno results from Jeff? Even though the other new header has caught most of the buzz, I am still very interested in the dyno results of the Lextek header. If the Lextek header can post results at least as good as the stock non-cat 5th gen header I think it is still a good option for those that don't want to pay the premium price for the other 'small batch' header. It would be nice to have info on both options and I don't think the work you and Jeff have put in is in vain. 

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1 hour ago, adkfinn said:

Happy New Year Stray!

 

Any word on the dyno results from Jeff? Even though the other new header has caught most of the buzz, I am still very interested in the dyno results of the Lextek header. If the Lextek header can post results at least as good as the stock non-cat 5th gen header I think it is still a good option for those that don't want to pay the premium price for the other 'small batch' header. It would be nice to have info on both options and I don't think the work you and Jeff have put in is in vain. 

 

I am with adkfinn - Stray, the perseverance you’ve demonstrated deserves to bear fruit. I was literally this close (thumb and index finger 1/4” apart) to purchasing a Lextek when the other project swung into action. I still may get a Lextek for a second 5th gen.

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Hello All, 

 

Spoke to Jeff yesterday and he apologised for the delay. 

 

Unfortunately the grandson situation has got quite setious for Keith who has gone to ground since the lad was born. Very ominous. 

 

Jeff’s VFR is in Keith’s workshop with the Lextek fitted. They got as far as running it (not under load) and Jeff says it sounded awesome! No more progress since then. 

 

Dyno testing will have to wait until the grandson situation resolves. 

 

Sorry to be a wet blanket folks. I’m afraid there’s no working around this one. 

 

There will be a dyno pull but I can’t say when. Sorry again for the delay! 

 

Stray

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Dyno results are finally here!!!

 

Hello Folks, 

 

Jeff finally got his 2000 with Lextek header (and Lextek OP1 muffler) tested on a Dynojet machine. 

 

Results are good:

 

E3F59710-B17A-4E8F-B6CE-05AB7BC0D7E2.thumb.jpeg.5c4e57c231b115a47e5821fd70034f1c.jpeg

 

Blue with baffle - 101hp

Red without baffle - 104hp

 

Conditions were less than perfect (open workshop with cold Northern wind blowing through). Jeff says it’s a bit lean so might have done a bit better with more fettling. Nice flat power curve! 

 

Setup is Lextek header with Lextek OP1 muffler. 

 

Great results considering this is not a performance header - it is a stainless replacement header at a very good price! 

 

Prices are same as Lextek website with a very generous discount. PM me for details as Jeff doesn’t want prices published where his suppliers can see them. Discount applies to headers and mufflers/complete systems. 

 

Shipping is extra. 

 

Payment ideally by bank transfer or PayPal (buyer covers fees). 

 

If you’re interested please let me know by PM with name, address and system required. I’ll put the list together for Jeff and see how many buyers we get. 

 

Any questions just let me know! 

 

Stray

 

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You sure he said Lean? Those numbers look pretty rich to me.

 

That said, this is good data. Shows a reasonable, usable power delivery, so nothing awful is happening there. These should be a bargain at this price.  Thanks for posting!

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8 hours ago, MooseMoose said:

You sure he said Lean? Those numbers look pretty rich to me.

 

That said, this is good data. Shows a reasonable, usable power delivery, so nothing awful is happening there. These should be a bargain at this price.  Thanks for posting!

Thanks for spotting that Moose - you’re right it looks quite rich at 11.4 as opposed to 13.5 (for power) and 14.5 (for low emissions). There’s probably a few ponies left on the table here. 

 

I was also impressed by the smoothness of the curve. This header uses different merge pattern from stock and a few folks were worried about that but looks OK to me! 

 

On the US header build thread the stock 5th gen with catless header, aftermarket muffler and aftermarket air filter posted 107hp after tuning with a PC3. 

 

Jeff’s bike is in the same ballpark at 104hp with less tuning time and running slightly rich. Not sure if he has a fuel module installed - I’ll ask and report back. 

 

The TBR-style system is of course a different animal entirely at 114.72hp. Very, very impressive results and I’m looking at an 8th gen version when it gets released. 

 

But the Lextek is 1/3 of the money for catless header performance and I’m sorely tempted...

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I don't want to be the downer on this thread, but even though the dyno chart looks flat, it's not the same as a normal 5G, or 6G.

They normally have a fat mid range which is missining with this header.

From my enterpretation of this chart, it lost a whole heap of mid range grunt. which is the best part of our V4's.

Happy to be told I'm wrong.

 

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PS, forget top rev horse power, that means nothing unless your racing, torque is where it's at.

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I really was hoping to see a before & after chart comparison, that would have sealed the deal. 

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27 minutes ago, SEBSPEED said:

I really was hoping to see a before & after chart comparison, that would have sealed the deal. 

x2 on this, with torque figures included as well. Stock vs. modified would be ideal.

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Way to go with follow through Stray - it's a tough line to toe between getting someone to put their bike on a dyno and 'over-encouraging' them into retirement from the project.

 

Do the 'with baffle' and 'without baffle' dyno graphs refer to with or without the quiet insert that can be installed in the canister/muffler's exit?

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The lextek isn't that encouraging at all,  TBH unless you're ready to buy a budget header than start hacking and mandrel bending it and re welding the first 8 inches of all 4 primary tubes.  

Pretty obvious that the multi-stage primary tomfoolery evident in the lextek/bw/alibaba header isn't working.  I'd say it's in way better shape than any of the delk/black widow/sbs/motad crap headers,  because for around 100 bucks at a legit speed shop they can be turned into something very much like what we're designing here.   But again.  as it sits it's yet another OEM replacement with a few perks until you chop it up.  

But at least it has that going for it.

Proper primaries on these bikes pick up power just off idle.  The graph you've provided is great testament that they got the merges right.  it's 90% there but they fucked up the primaries.  which is what I've been saying since I saw them/aquired some data through email about them.  at the outlet of the head they're no different from Vtec/8th gen pipes.  and it's why they aren't making More power until later more than likely.

They pick up that immediate 3.5-4 ponies similarly but they don't do it from 3 grand on like the 35.5mm inners do.  

 

1269798220_Attackmidrangecomparison1012619.thumb.jpg.d9a7af5620ee8ed849ca46ea206d50d6.jpg

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On 2/1/2019 at 4:36 PM, SEBSPEED said:

I really was hoping to see a before & after chart comparison, that would have sealed the deal. 

Hey Seb come on, give the guy a break, EVERY stock 5th gen Dyno run I have seen shows mid 90’s he, as in 94-97, regardless where in the world they were done. The Motad is a copy of the 98/99 model headers which are larger bore than the 00/01 versions, just with or without O2 bungs. They normally push max power up to around 101-102hp.  If this system is significantly less in $$$ terms, then it’s a good replacement system & by the looks of it should last the lifetime of the bike.

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7 hours ago, Mohawk said:

Hey Seb come on, give the guy a break, EVERY stock 5th gen Dyno run I have seen shows mid 90’s he, as in 94-97, regardless where in the world they were done. The Motad is a copy of the 98/99 model headers which are larger bore than the 00/01 versions, just with or without O2 bungs. They normally push max power up to around 101-102hp.  If this system is significantly less in $$$ terms, then it’s a good replacement system & by the looks of it should last the lifetime of the bike.

 

I totally agree with you re: good value as a replacement system. Also, I am thankful for the efforts made to obtain & provide info! All I meant with my comment was that the additional data point could have put the kibosh on any further speculation re: overall performance. I'm a sucker for data :biggrin: 

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I agree with both Seb and Mohawk. The Lextek looks like a reasonable system at a good price and depending on your individual requirements, may indeed be the ideal choice. But...

 

I would have liked to see a back to back comparison with the same bike fitted with the standard system. In isolation, that dyno chart is let's say, not as useful as it would be if we had the standard one to compare. Maybe that bike on that dyno just produces higher figures and the standard system might produce higher/better results, showing the Lextek as perhaps significantly inferior. I'm not suggesting it is, but without the comparison, let's be honest, we don't actually know.

 

I guess we could try looking at another chart of a standard bike and see how that compares. Not ideal, but probably better than nothing at all. Anyone got one to hand?

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A group could gather funding and offer to pay for Jeff to have the stock header/muffler put back on, then run the same bike on the same dyno. With nothing out of pocket, he'd have a hard time saying no.

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On 2/3/2019 at 10:39 AM, Mohawk said:

Hey Seb come on, give the guy a break, EVERY stock 5th gen Dyno run I have seen shows mid 90’s he, as in 94-97, regardless where in the world they were done. The Motad is a copy of the 98/99 model headers which are larger bore than the 00/01 versions, just with or without O2 bungs. They normally push max power up to around 101-102hp.  If this system is significantly less in $$$ terms, then it’s a good replacement system & by the looks of it should last the lifetime of the bike.

 

You've nailed it Mohawk - it’s a very good value replacement that makes 5th gen catless power in stainless. It’s also better than the existing offerings from Motad/SBS/Delk...and cheaper! 

 

Youre not not going to win any GPs with this system (your TBR is optimised for that) but it’s a good replacement. 

 

On 2/4/2019 at 12:12 PM, BiKenG said:

I agree with both Seb and Mohawk. The Lextek looks like a reasonable system at a good price and depending on your individual requirements, may indeed be the ideal choice. But...

 

I would have liked to see a back to back comparison with the same bike fitted with the standard system. In isolation, that dyno chart is let's say, not as useful as it would be if we had the standard one to compare. Maybe that bike on that dyno just produces higher figures and the standard system might produce higher/better results, showing the Lextek as perhaps significantly inferior. I'm not suggesting it is, but without the comparison, let's be honest, we don't actually know.

 

I guess we could try looking at another chart of a standard bike and see how that compares. Not ideal, but probably better than nothing at all. Anyone got one to hand?

 

Good point re comparison but I don’t think anyone can really argue the Lextek loses any power against the catless 5th gen. Yes, torque figures and before-after comparison are missing but the power curve is nice and flat. 

 

See notes below regarding torque. 

 

On 2/3/2019 at 5:50 PM, SEBSPEED said:

 

I totally agree with you re: good value as a replacement system. Also, I am thankful for the efforts made to obtain & provide info! All I meant with my comment was that the additional data point could have put the kibosh on any further speculation re: overall performance. I'm a sucker for data :biggrin: 

Agree. Jeff went to a 3rd choice dyno to get this done because it was dragging on and he wanted to put this to bed. 

 

Unfortunately that dyno didn’t provide torque values. 

 

On the the other hand I seem to recall the group saying the Lextek merge pattern is optimised for torque instead of top-end power (correct me if this is wrong?) so we should be fine there. 

 

On 2/1/2019 at 12:25 PM, VFROZ said:

PS, forget top rev horse power, that means nothing unless your racing, torque is where it's at.

 

VFROZ, didn’t someone post earlier that the Lextek merges are optimised for torque rather than top-end power? 

 

On 2/3/2019 at 6:31 AM, Voided76 said:

The lextek isn't that encouraging at all,  TBH unless you're ready to buy a budget header than start hacking and mandrel bending it and re welding the first 8 inches of all 4 primary tubes.  

Pretty obvious that the multi-stage primary tomfoolery evident in the lextek/bw/alibaba header isn't working.  I'd say it's in way better shape than any of the delk/black widow/sbs/motad crap headers,  because for around 100 bucks at a legit speed shop they can be turned into something very much like what we're designing here.   But again.  as it sits it's yet another OEM replacement with a few perks until you chop it up.  

But at least it has that going for it.

Proper primaries on these bikes pick up power just off idle.  The graph you've provided is great testament that they got the merges right.  it's 90% there but they fucked up the primaries.  which is what I've been saying since I saw them/aquired some data through email about them.  at the outlet of the head they're no different from Vtec/8th gen pipes.  and it's why they aren't making More power until later more than likely.

They pick up that immediate 3.5-4 ponies similarly but they don't do it from 3 grand on like the 35.5mm inners do.  
 

1269798220_Attackmidrangecomparison1012619.thumb.jpg.d9a7af5620ee8ed849ca46ea206d50d6.jpg

Voided76, don’t bigger diameter pipes make power at the top and lose torque at the bottom? If the concern is that the primaries are too narrow (and I accept they are narrower than the TBR header) then how are they, “making More power until later more than likely”? I suspect the narrower primaries IMPROVE torque lower down, no?

 

The Lextek top end power is a known quantity but torque and midrange shouldn’t suffer with these primary sizes (same as catless 5th gen, I believe?). 

 

On 2/4/2019 at 6:43 PM, sfdownhill said:

A group could gather funding and offer to pay for Jeff to have the stock header/muffler put back on, then run the same bike on the same dyno. With nothing out of pocket, he'd have a hard time saying no.

 

Good point but I fear Jeff is done with this now. This saga has worn him out and I can’t see him going to any further efforts. He runs a very busy exhaust business and frankly has bigger fish to fry. 

 

We could always pick one up and do our own dyno testing. Anyone want a good cheap header?

 

I know lots of us are hooked on the TBR project in the US and I am among those. But the expense and performance aren’t for everyone. I’ve seen decent VFRs sell for less than £1000 on eBay (probably cheaper in the US?) so installing a system that costs £1000 (after shipping and taxes) doesn’t make sense for everyone. 

 

Thats where the Lextek comes in. 

 

Thanks to everyone for their input - let’s keep the discussion lively. I’ve learned more about exhausts on this thread than anywhere else. If I got any of the theory wrong please let me know. Every day is a learning day. 

 

Stray 

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