Jump to content
RVFR

5th & 6th VFR 800 Header build

Recommended Posts

On 11/2/2018 at 9:25 PM, VFROZ said:

A clue to this discussion is the fact that on 5G/6G they merge left and right. 

On the 8G they merge front and rear. 

The 8G lost top end power but gained low end torque. 

Interesting! But is that down to merge design or tube diameter/cat? Or even the different front down pipes for front mounted rad? HighsideNZ, did your 5th gen lose top end and gain torque with the rc45 headers? Your answer to this question should tell us a lot. 

 

The Delkevic system for 5th, 6th and 8th gen is exactly the same except for different front downpipes on the 8th (for front mounted rad). 

 

If 8th gen guys find the Delkevic system gives them more top end and less lower end, then we have our answer! 

 

If not, then the power delivery differences must be down to other factors (pipe diameter, cat, sprocket gearing, airbox etc). 

 

Of course, I could be talking out of my behind. It’s been known to happen...

Edited by Stray
Sorry, got HighsideNZ mixed up with VFROZ. Dreadfully sorry, chaps!
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hadn't noticed that the 8th Gen uses a Fronts and Rears merge style, but it does indicate how the different merging affects power and torque. Personally I'd be more interested in healthier mid range torque than top end power and if that's the effect of a F&R merge on a 180 crank, then it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. Although for those wanting the max. top end power, L&R merging remains the more desirable.

 

So many options :)

 

For mid range torque then, the Lextek may well be ok. Anyone want to try one and put it not the dyno so we can see the result?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Delkevic system is often dismissed for its poor collector joint internals, but has anyone actually tested on a dyno? Ideally a bike with standard system, then swapped for Delkevic to get a good comparison on same dyno, same day etc?

 

It would be particularly interesting to see this for their 8th Gen system as they use the same L&R merging of earlier Gens rather than F&R as Honda use for that model.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 4:54 AM, Stray said:

Interesting! But is that down to merge design or tube diameter/cat? Or even the different front down pipes for front mounted rad? VFROZ, did your 5th gen lose top end and gain torque with the rc45 headers? Your answer to this question should tell us a lot. 

 

The Delkevic system for 5th, 6th and 8th gen is exactly the same except for different front downpipes on the 8th (for front mounted rad). 

 

If 8th gen guys find the Delkevic system gives them more top end and less lower end, then we have our answer! 

 

If not, then the power delivery differences must be down to other factors (pipe diameter, cat, sprocket gearing, airbox etc). 

 

Of course, I could be talking out of my behind. It’s been known to happen...

3

 

In this regard, the 8G exhaust actually mirrors the RC30/45 exhaust.  They also splayed out to the side a bit to allow for fitment of a front low mount rad.  I am adopting something similar for the track bike under construction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CornerCarver said:

 

In this regard, the 8G exhaust actually mirrors the RC30/45 exhaust.  They also splayed out to the side a bit to allow for fitment of a front low mount rad.  I am adopting something similar for the track bike under construction.

 

Sounds like a badass V4 trackbike!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LEXTEK UPDATE

 

Hello chaps, 

 

Since I posted the Lextek link Jeff at Simmi Performance has had rather a lot of interest - hurray for forum power! 

 

I’ve been in contact with Jeff from the start and spoke to him about setting up a group-buy to fill the void of the Tyga saga. 

 

We've been talking about the concerns/questions on here and Jeff has been really accommodating. So much so, he has agreed the following: 

 

1. A 15% discount for forum members who use my name (Spiros) in the group buy;

 

2. A 20% discount if we reach 25 orders for members who use my name (Spiros)

 

3. He has agreed to get the header dyno tested! He wants one of our members (someone in Barnard Castle where he’s based) to bring their 5th gen (non-cat standard ORM header, ideally) for before-and-after runs to compare!! The member needs to get their stock system dyno-tested, buy a header from him (he will post it to you), member fits the header and shows up for a second dyno run. At this point Jeff will REFUND THE PRICE OF THE HEADER!!! Can’t really argue with that, eh? Jeff has a friend with a private Dyno (some race outfit) who does his tuning for him and the runs will be free 

 

Wish I could take the offer but I’m too far and bike isn’t roadworthy. He who hesitates loses a free header. 

 

If you're close to Barnard Castle, have a standard 5th Gen non-cat header and fancy a FREE Lextek stainless system then please PM me for details. Only one offer available I’m afraid - first suitable pilot to apply gets the gig.  

 

Those living in the north of England may have come across Jeff before. He used to own and manufacture Simmi Performance exhausts (mostly cans, baffles and link pipes - not to be confused with SP Engineering) until he sold it. He now works for the new owner who is the second-largest Lextek distributor in the world.  

 

Back in the day Jeff was famous for his excellent craftsmanship (he’s been compared to Yoshimura quality in many periodicals and online if you search) and his outstanding customer service. Having spoken to him several times I can personally vouch for the second. 

 

Lextek are just finishing up their inhouse dyno system for testing exhausts going forward, but it won’t be ready until early next year. Jeff has relayed our interest in this header to them. He has also received some disobliging comments from people who doubt this header will perform - Lextek have taken this quite seriously and want the dyno test run ASAP to prove their product works. Hence the offer on here. 

 

Apparently one of their top guys commutes to work on a 5th gen...

 

In addition to the the above I am compiling a list of questions to send Jeff tomorrow. Please chime in with anything I may have omitted: 

 

a. How much does the header weigh

b. Pictures of the inside of the tubes to show quality of welds and cutting

c. What is the internal diameter of primaries/secondaries on downpipes

d. Will rear down pipes interfere with cam chain tensioner on 6th gen? Jeff says we can do some measuring and if the current setup touches the CCT, Lextek have agreed to modify the rear tubes (all models will then come with 6th gen rear tubes as these also fit 5th gen, no? Please correct me if this is wrong?). He said they would also look at providing modified front tubes for 8th gen. Not sure these would fit 5th/6th gen bikes though so please educate me

e. Is rear exit OEM size so we can run existing link pipe/can

f. What is cost of shipping to US/Europe/Australasia etc

 

Please post any missing questions so I can send them all in one go. 

 

Most important thing is to find that ideal 5th gen de-cat bike in Barnard Castle and a pilot willing to fit a Lextek system for the dyno test. In my opinion a bike with Power Commander/Rapid Bike tuning module would be ideal as we can get the most out of both setups this way. 

 

Please let let me know your thoughts ASAP so we can get this show (dyno) rolling! 

 

Link to Lextek header here again if you missed it last time: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F382587019138

 

Once the ball gets rolling I will run a poll of interested members on here so we can achieve the full discount. Please express your interest informally to give an indication of numbers. 

 

Best, 

 

Stray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I am still in for two systems provided they perform as well as or better than the TBR, and come in around the $1K mark. I would gladly provide a test bike, but as I am in SoCal shipping is likely a deal breaker on that given recent developments.

 

 Hoping this finally comes to fruition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Stray said:

If you're close to Barnard Castle, have a standard 5th Gen non-cat header and fancy a FREE Lextek stainless system then please PM me for details. Only one offer available I’m afraid - first suitable pilot to apply gets the gig. 

 

Someone (Stray) should post up in the UK Facebook group... surely someones up there.

Honda VFR Owners Club ™ UK

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I am in the UK, but down south:-(

However, I have a good trailer and a suitable bike and the time :-)

 

Also, I'm very interested in this whole issue so would be prepared to truck the bike up there, especially if it got me a system to use. Then I just need to buy one more.

 

I've started to make contact with Jeff to take this further. I'll update you all when I know more.

 

Two more things.

 

My bike is a Gen 5.2, i.e. with cat. So ideally need to source a regular system for comparison. Anyone got any Gen 5.1 headers kicking around we could borrow?

 

If international shipping becomes an issue with this or anything else, I am prepared to accept items delivered here on behalf of members and ship them on to the final destination. I don't have any special deals with shipping companies and the original supplier may well be able to do it better and cheaper. But if for some reason they won't offer Int. shipping, I would help, obviously only at whatever cost the shipping company charges. You could even make your own arrangements and just have it collected from here.

 

Anyway, just offering in case it helps anyone get hold of the VFR parts they want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am still trying to establish how Delkevic can use the same collector for 5 and 6 Gen systems. Is the outlet angle and position the same on these bikes with just a different link from there to the low can of the 5th Gen or the high level stuff under the seat of the 6th Gen?

 

As I said, I'm needing the splayed front pipes of the 8th Gen with an outlet suitable for the 6th Gen's high level and although modification of the pipes to suit may be necessary, the less needed the better. So just trying to understand what might be required.

 

Anyone know for sure about the outlets?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Folks have been putting '98-'99 headers on 6th Gens for a while now to eliminate the cat/con, so I guess they fit the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep,  the outlet is in the same place,  it's what happens after that is obviously different.  If only this wasn't a international shipping  thing.   Good luck,  sounds like a good time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BuzznerSuntrusts said:

Folks have been putting '98-'99 headers on 6th Gens for a while now to eliminate the cat/con, so I guess they fit the same.

Yep, I had no issues with the 98-99 fitted to my 6 Gen. However, the differences I found with my '01 and my '09 headers, is the front pipes cross over on these two but not on the 98-99. I had originally thought the cross over was from 2002+ but nope, 01 has the fronts crossed as well. I cannot speak for the 2k model but I would imagine it is the same as the 01 as that's when they added the cat and O2 sensors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BiKenG, you’re first in line mate but PLEASE GET A CATLESS HEADER! We need to know how the Lextek stacks up against the best OEM setup with wider pipes and free flow. Comparisons to a catted header are not really helpful for a performance system. 

 

Do you have a fuel tuner (Power Commander or Rapid Bike sort of thing)? If not can you get your hands on one just for the test? 

 

Can someone borrow BiKenG a catless header to fit? And a fuel tuner too maybe?  

 

As for trailering your bike up north, it would be easier if Jeff ships you the header and you test your bike at a local dyno. Power runs are only about £20 - a fraction of the fuel and time it would cost you to drag the bike halfway across the country. What do you think? 

 

Sent you PM with my number so we can get this sorted.

 

As for crossover pipes on later VFRs, I can only think of one reason - to give them more length (oooh!). Perhaps Honda thought longer front pipes were optimal? 

14 hours ago, Vee-Ef-Ar said:

 

Someone (Stray) should post up in the UK Facebook group... surely someones up there.

Honda VFR Owners Club ™ UK

That’s a very good idea but I don’t have an account! Could BiKenG (or someone else) do it and link to this thread? Warn them only to read the last couple of pages though or they’ll de-friend you...

 

If we combine the intetested parties from FB, VFRW, Bikersoracle (never been on that one) and VFRD we should drum up rather a lot of buyers. 

 

Everything hangs on how well the Lextek performs on test which is why it is so critical to get the right bike with correct header and fuel tuner. Every VFR 5-8th gen owner worldwide will be interested in the outcome - has to be done right for everyone’s sake. 

 

I’ll discuss international shipping with Jeff tomorrow. Should be a good way to do this. Might ask Lextek to ship direct to a nominated member in each country or something. Will update when I know more. 

 

Best, 

 

Stray 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Duc2V4 said:

Yep, I had no issues with the 98-99 fitted to my 6 Gen. However, the differences I found with my '01 and my '09 headers, is the front pipes cross over on these two but not on the 98-99. I had originally thought the cross over was from 2002+ but nope, 01 has the fronts crossed as well. I cannot speak for the 2k model but I would imagine it is the same as the 01 as that's when they added the cat and O2 sensors.

 

11 hours ago, RVFR said:

Yep,  the outlet is in the same place,  it's what happens after that is obviously different.  If only this wasn't a international shipping  thing.   Good luck,  sounds like a good time. 

 

That's all good to know,. So I need a 5/6 Gen collector and rear downpipes, with 8th Gen fronts. Simples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SURPRISE NEW DEVELOPMENT ON LEXTEK HEADER TEST: Jeff has gone and bought himself a 2000 5th gen!!!! 

 

Here is Bike he bought: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/277093886239865/

 

This means dyno testing will happen imminently - hurray! 

 

Jeff was also gracious enough to answer our questions in detail and with photos. 

 

System weight is 5.7kg with link pipe (no muffler). 

 

Internal weld quality is great - see those nice fillets...

 

5430E49A-0866-4326-9B50-964B0F5AD769.thumb.jpeg.4cbbbff49730c0f821bacef8ed1401c1.jpeg

CA3314E4-428E-4991-BEAA-875DC70F323A.thumb.jpeg.c4c86b4020cbb98d8a3ed9a667f7f872.jpeg

 

Downpipes internal diameter starts at 32mm and goes up to 38mm. 

 

7B5FF8E4-7118-4981-8485-439FBA4DB20D.thumb.jpeg.e0149ed7b6eef6ba2dbda393ab8bae14.jpeg

 

Exit tube is 50.8mm - same as standard I believe? 

 

CD959E1C-104E-434D-AA08-7EC77CDD23F7.thumb.jpeg.50f0bf2f5065016cb6ca72b280f4bbca.jpeg

 

He is happy to post overseas: box size is 58cm x 32cm x 15cm for calculating costs. He is happy to ship batches in one go to save costs but you will have to add another 15cm (height) for every extra system. So three systems would measure 58 x 32 x 45cm (3 times 15cm). Box weighs 5.7kg as stated above. 

 

Jeff will do a generous discount on first 25 orders. Thereafter the same deal in batches of 5. Please PM for price (Jeff doesn’t want to publish it here). 

 

If anyone wants a full system (with brackets, gaskets and muffler) please look on the Lextek website and let Jeff know what you’d like - he will apply this same discount to the entire system. 

 

He prefers payment by BACS (direct bank transfer) as margins will be very small on this offer and he doesn’t want to incur PayPal/CC fees. 

 

Jeff will also ask Lextek to make adaptations for 8th gen front tubes and (if necessary) 6th gen rear tubes once his initial stockholding is exhausted and they need to produce more. Currently there are 45 systems in stock. 

 

Jeff has very graciously agreed to dyno his new bike with both the OE system and Lextek header. He will use a Lextek muffler on both runs. Results should be in by end of next week. 

 

Big apology to BiKenG who will miss out on a free header. Sorry it turned out this way for you, mate. 

 

On the other hand it means we have a fellow VFR800 owner, who is an excellent exhaust builder, setting up a dyno test and cheap group-buy deal for us. He bought a bike just to service our needs - that’s pretty hard to beat, I think you’ll agree! 

 

Jeff may join our forum shortly as Kawaman (long time Kawasaki fan) and answer questions directly himself. Mods, please fast track his application if you see it!

 

Best, 

 

Stray

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless it's a late-registered FiX (and I don't see a choke lever on there), he's bought himself a set of cat'd-headers, though...

 

Ciao,

 

JZH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unless it's a late-registered FiX (and I don't see a choke lever on there), he's bought himself a set of cat'd-headers, though...
 
Ciao,
 
JZH
Pretty sure I see HISS there, so he will probably find an O2 sensor here as well...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, WackenSS said:
32 minutes ago, JZH said:
Unless it's a late-registered FiX (and I don't see a choke lever on there), he's bought himself a set of cat'd-headers, though...
 
Ciao,
 
JZH

Pretty sure I see HISS there, so he will probably find an O2 sensor here as well...

 

Yes I can see the HISS module as well. It's even advertised as a 2000, so that makes it a Gen 5.2 and the same as my bike. Oh well. I'm still available.😀

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pity this bloke isn't here in Oz...

 

I'd have been pretty keen to see how these headers would compare to the ones on my bike. Mine is a "stock" '99 (well, internally at least ;)) but has ceramic-coated headers ('99s, as you'd expect), and a PCII, existing through a custom semi-oval hi-mount slip-on.

 

I reckon that in terms of exhaust, that's about as good as a VFR gets, aside from rocking horse poo TBRs or rec-crafted RC45 gear...Would have been a pretty worthwhile comparo.

 

Buckleys chance of getting an exhaust place here interested in doing that kind of fab work for 20 year-old bikes, though. Or at least in anything like mass production.

 

So kudos to Jeff for putting his hand up. 

 

I'm actually quite keen to see how this system compares to the stock catless headers...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know a couple places in sydney that could do it- not mass production, but one offs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, keef said:

I know a couple places in sydney that could do it- not mass production, but one offs.

 

 

No doubt with attendant one-off production costs...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, its why i have a delk and custom link pipe and can,  not a glorious, custom, hand made setup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huge respect to Jeff who has gone as far as buying a VFR just to dyno test the Lextek for us. Worth noting he is a lifelong Kawasaki fan so he really has made s leap!

 

Does anyone know what power/torque increases are with other header systems (same muffler)?

 

I’m thinking of Sandy Bike Spares/Black Widdow; Delkevic, Motad and Two Brothers. Also, does anyone have a comparison between 5th gen catless and catted headers? Is there a difference in power/torque? 

 

If memory serves the TBR needs a retune as primaries are quite a bit larger. Bike will run poorly without some fuel adjustments.

 

Am I talking cr@p here? Please chime in so we can put together a benchmark against which to compare the Lextek. 

 

Dyno results should be with us in us in a matter of DAYS - how cool is that! 

 

Once again, I am absolutely stunned by how accommodating Jeff has been with us: no other supplier has ever been as generous or as quick to act! 

 

PM me for prices if interested. 

 

Best, 

 

Stray 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.