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Let's talk tyres!


hellindustries

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I'm sure a topic like this exists, but it's good to have an updated discussion every now and then.

I've started looking around for my next set as i'm pretty disappointed with my Pilot Road 4's.

Granted; Most of my daily riding is to and from work, which is about 5 miles each way and not really far/long enough to warm the tyres. It's statistically rare for me to do long distances over 30 mins or 50 miles. I've also lost traction a fair few times. Nothing serious, but enough to make me re-consider my tyre and riding choices!

So far, the advice has been Bridgestone T30 Evo tyres. I'm told they warm up faster compared to PR4's - Personally; I'm happy to trade tyre life for a faster heating tyre.

What's the current range of opinions, then?

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I loved my PR4's on my MT09 - sticky enough for everything, including a trackday when the tyres already had 20,000ks on them. i changed to M7rr's when they were too squared off.

What tyre pressures are you running? 

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Tyre pressure is too high, drop It to maybe 32F/34R and see how it feels.I'm not that much smaller than you at about 220lbs.

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I'm fortunate enough to work in the motorbike industry and get to ride a LOT of bikes. I know those pressures feel wrong and ruin the handling, at least for me. Bike turns in too sharply, feels sluggish.

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1 hour ago, keef said:

Tyre pressure is too high, drop It to maybe 32F/34R and see how it feels.I'm not that much smaller than you at about 220lbs.

I have spoken at length with Michelin regarding pressures. They are adamant that you run 36/42. I asked them about going to the track, what pressures should I run and the only answer they would give me is 36/42. If you want, feel free to call Norman Frye at Michelin 864-458-5931. He'll explain all the reasons why, etc.

 

I ran PR4 tires at Chuckwalla about a year ago. They work pretty well, but they did slide the rear out on certain turns and I did almost highside on one. I also had this happen on the street as well. I am now running Bridgestone T30 EVO and they have worked very well. I've only had the rear slide a little in very hard straight braking and that's on cold streets. Never in a turn, regardless of how hard I was on them. I've had zero issues with grip regardless of how hard I push them. Hard braking and the front tracks true. Even hard braking in the rain, coming back from the International Motorcycle Show in Long Beach a couple of weeks ago, with almost 6k miles on them and the tread low on the rear..

I used to be a total PR3/4 fan boy and I never thought I would run anything different, but when I needed tires last April, the T30 EVO was on sale and I'm hooked. Turn in is effortless and the grip is excellent. I guess that's why Ron Haslam runs them on his track bikes at his school in the UK. I weigh more than both of those listed above and I am not kind to my tires and I got a little over 6100 miles out of my rear and It was about .5mm over the wear bars. My rear was 2-3mm tread left, the front has 4+ mm tread left. As the PR4 tires wear faster than the PR3 and they lose grip as they age, I'll not be going back. True, I got about 1000 miles more out of my PR4, the difference in profile, grip in all conditions along with the lower price makes this a no brainer for me.

 

FWIW, I had a 2005 that I had raised the forks in the triples about 12 mm and I shimmed the shock 4mm (total effect of about 12mm with the rear suspension geometry)  as well. I now have a 5th gen and the combo of the bike and the tires made it more nimble than the 6th gen with all of the suspension changes. I have since shimmed my shock roughly 4mm on this bike too. Very nimble bike now.

I really think that the T30 EVO is a great tire. Yes, there may be better tires out there, such as a sport tire, but even with as hard as I ride, the 'Stones have never let me down. I get sport tire wear and touring tire miles.

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I'm a fan of the bridgestones. Wasn't going for them but was talked into them by the tyre fitter . My first ride was in the rain and I must say was impressed, then after a few hundred km I went for a decent run through the twisties . That's when I found the problem with my bikes handling , the foot pegs are obviously to low scraping on lots of corners . Pressures for the record 38F 42R always have run like that . Will get them again 

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The tyres won't generate enough heat with such high pressures on the street. You will get great mileage, but less grip. 

For track days I drop to 30/30. 

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I have to accept that the tyre manufacturer knows best when it comes to the recommended pressures for their own product. I also have to accept that everyone in the bike garage i work at knows best/the same when it comes to tyre pressures.

I would really like to not make this a discussion about tyre pressures.

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9 hours ago, Lint said:

I have spoken at length with Michelin regarding pressures. They are adamant that you run 36/42. I asked them about going to the track, what pressures should I run and the only answer they would give me is 36/42. If you want, feel free to call Norman Frye at Michelin 864-458-5931. He'll explain all the reasons why, etc.

 

I ran PR4 tires at Chuckwalla about a year ago. They work pretty well, but they did slide the rear out on certain turns and I did almost highside on one. I also had this happen on the street as well. I am now running Bridgestone T30 EVO and they have worked very well. I've only had the rear slide a little in very hard straight braking and that's on cold streets. Never in a turn, regardless of how hard I was on them. I've had zero issues with grip regardless of how hard I push them. Hard braking and the front tracks true. Even hard braking in the rain, coming back from the International Motorcycle Show in Long Beach a couple of weeks ago, with almost 6k miles on them and the tread low on the rear..

I used to be a total PR3/4 fan boy and I never thought I would run anything different, but when I needed tires last April, the T30 EVO was on sale and I'm hooked. Turn in is effortless and the grip is excellent. I guess that's why Ron Haslam runs them on his track bikes at his school in the UK. I weigh more than both of those listed above and I am not kind to my tires and I got a little over 6100 miles out of my rear and It was about .5mm over the wear bars. My rear was 2-3mm tread left, the front has 4+ mm tread left. As the PR4 tires wear faster than the PR3 and they lose grip as they age, I'll not be going back. True, I got about 1000 miles more out of my PR4, the difference in profile, grip in all conditions along with the lower price makes this a no brainer for me.

 

FWIW, I had a 2005 that I had raised the forks in the triples about 12 mm and I shimmed the shock 4mm (total effect of about 12mm with the rear suspension geometry)  as well. I now have a 5th gen and the combo of the bike and the tires made it more nimble than the 6th gen with all of the suspension changes. I have since shimmed my shock roughly 4mm on this bike too. Very nimble bike now.

I really think that the T30 EVO is a great tire. Yes, there may be better tires out there, such as a sport tire, but even with as hard as I ride, the 'Stones have never let me down. I get sport tire wear and touring tire miles.


That's some good feedback. Thanks!

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6 hours ago, keef said:

The tyres won't generate enough heat with such high pressures on the street. You will get great mileage, but less grip. 

For track days I drop to 30/30. 

I also  called Bridgestone about this very thing and the tech guy said 34/36 for the track. Possibly 32, but I'd have to verify. 

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I don't want to make it about tire pressures either but you state that you lost traction on a few occasions with a very good tire mounted.  The recommended pressures bandied about are for maximum load.  IIRC the max load for a PR4 is approximately 800lbs.  That means the max pressure would be correct if your bike, your kit and you weigh in at 1,600 lbs.

 

As mentioned above you could experiment with your tire pressures a bit and find more traction at the expense of tire longevity.

 

Before you blast me, ask yourself a simple question....

 

Do you think that a CBR300F with a 115 lb pilot should be running the same tire pressure as as a VFR800 with a 300 lb pilot even if both are running the same Michelin tire?

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Stick with stock pressures.  T 30 evo are great tyres.  In the distance you ride to work no tyres are going to heat up much. 

 

Sports tyres take take longer to heat up and lose their heat quicker so a sports touring tyre is much better for colder weather. 

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I understand that you don't want to make this about pressures, but tyre grip is linked to tyre pressure. Lower pressure generates more heat. More heat means more grip. 

higher pressure means less heat, so less grip, like when tyres that are very sticky aren't providing the grip that they are capable of. 

I am trying to help here, because if you keep running high presssures, especially heading in to winter for you northern hemisphere guys, no tyre will grip, no matter how sticky, will get hot enough to be sticky. 

 

On my last couple of supermotos I had to run around 25psi to generate any heat in the tyres. Don't be afraid to experiment. 

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Have run STD pressures in my tyres for over 30 years and never had a problem.

 

if your riding constantly you will generate heat.  If your stop start you won't.  

 

Not all tyre grip grip is linked to tyre pressure. On a race track if you start out with STD pressures the generated heat will increase the pressure. That's why you start with lower pressures.  Ever felt a rim after a fast track session?    Increased pressure means less of a contact patch due to the increased pressure. 

 

 It's about compounds.  Sports tyres have softer compounds that take longer to heat up than the harder compounds of sport touring tyres. 

 

Take a really soft sports tyre and  go for it on the road from the off it will feel like your on ice till it gets enough heat in it, where as a st tyre will grip from the start. 

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What are standard Tyre pressures, exactly?

tyre technology has improved immensely over 30 years, which means that as compounds have changed, the required tyre pressures have changed. 

How can one tyre pressure work well on different bikes, with different weights, different amounts of horsepower, different riding styles, different rider weights?

 

For example, I used pilot power pures on my super motard. From memory, 24 psi front, and 26 psi rear.  If I ran higher pressures, they wouldn't heat up. Lower pressures, the handling felt sluggish. 

I liked the tires on my motard so much I put a set on my vfr. 24/26 were obviously rubbish on my vfr ( felt like riding on flat tyres) so ended up with around 34/36 or so. 

Same tyres, same rider, different bikes, very different tyre pressures. 

And they were awesome on the motard for about 10,000ks, but on the vfr they were only awesome for about 4000ks then the front started feeling pretty sketchy. 

They would have sold more if they had marketed them as motard tyres instead of supersport tyres. 

 

what have you got to lose by dropping  pressures a bit and seeing how it goes?

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Motogp and Superbike riders are running whit pressure from 7 to 15 psi on a hot day. I know it is not the same tyres.

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Too many variables between different riders, riding style, road surfaces, air temperature, traffic pattern.. and many more that affect the performance of tires.. 

Regardless of what bike/tires, I treat the first 5 miles of every ride like I am riding on brand new tires. 

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Had PR4s since they replaced the PR3s.

 

Been wondering about other ST tyres and may try something else on the 1200 when the current PR4s run out.

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1 hour ago, Skids said:

Had PR4s since they replaced the PR3s.

 

Been wondering about other ST tyres and may try something else on the 1200 when the current PR4s run out.

 

I've been a PR guy for a while. I tried T30 Evos for the first time and am happy with them so far.

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26 minutes ago, thtanner said:

 

I've been a PR guy for a while. I tried T30 Evos for the first time and am happy with them so far.

 

:beer:

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