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Stock Suspension Setup for 6th Gen


Hongsta

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Hello everyone,

This will be my first post. Been a lurker ever since I got my 2006 VFR800 ABS and learned quite a bit about this bike. I like doing free mods that improve my experience and did the pair, flapper, snorkel, and stock rear fender delete. My question is about the stock suspension. Currently the forks are at max preload. The shock is also at max preload and rebound at full hard. I weigh about 180lbs and mainly use the bike for commuting and occasional weekend canyon riding. Also, for my commute, my girlfriend will almost always be on the back with me. She weighs about 120lbs. So, my question is, without having to swap out the stock suspension, what would be the best settings for 2up riding? As the bike sits currently, smooth road riding is fine but declines, inclines, and bumps are pretty harsh and bumpy. I never get the wallowing/pogo effect. I would like to know if I can do anything at all with the stock suspension that will benefit our combined 300lb weight without spending money. Any input is appreciated.

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Unfortunately without upgrading the springs at a minimum, there's not much more you can do but adjust the preload for proper sag.

 

BTW, Welcome Aboard Neighbor! I'm only a few minutes away from GG.

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Welcome Hongsta, keep the faith, something will come up! Not sure which gen it is, but I've seen a Kawasaki rear shock swap for the extra weight somewhere? GPZ something? Apparently a direct fit... E-bay?

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

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Stock there really isn't much play, a lot of people do the rear swap from Daugherty's motorsport that usues a 600F4i rear shock re-sprung for the VFR and the upgraded front end, it's pretty fairly priced consider how many people swear by it.

 

To be honest as much as I love my '02 the stock suspension even after being serviced and set up for my weight and riding is still pretty poor when I compare it to my FZ1 which has upgraded front springs and a Penske rear shock.

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6 hours ago, Hongsta said:

Currently the forks are at max preload. The shock is also at max preload and rebound at full hard.

 

Max everything. What more could you do ? Have you tried less ?

 

It's never going to be great but since compromises must be made... 

 

IMO full hard on the "rebound" is counter-productive. I believe it causes the rear to kick up and top out on bumps which is even more detrimental to grip and stability than a bit of wallow.

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Another suggestion :

 

Find a shop window where you can admire your own reflection. While you marvel at how good you look together on the bike, spare a brief moment to check whether the bottom of the belly pan is parallel with the ground.

 

I'll bet a penny on the bike riding nose high. :goofy:

 

If so, try to decrease front preload.

 

I know this is contrary to the basic rule that more weight needs more preload but I suspect your combined weight just might overwhelm the wimpy rear spring and that you are only making things worse by dialling max preload on the forks. 

 

I weigh about 210 no gear and run max preload on the shock even for solo / no luggage riding. 

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Thanks for the suggestions guys. My first real mods will be suspension and a new seat but was wondering what I can do in the meantime. So, seems like from the answers, the stock suspension isnt great and meant for 300lbs of weight. I will try RC36Rider's advice and decrease preload and rebound. Will start with 1 line showing up front and 1 turn from full hard for rebound in the rear.

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Hongsta, go to the download section of the forum and download the Racetech Suspension Bible. It'll tell you all you need to know about setting up your suspension and more!

 

Before I had my 6 Gen suspension rebuild I had a similar issue when taking the wife along on trips, no such issues any more. In fact I sometimes take my 6 Gen on pure sport rides, although it's really meant as my commuter, but none the less taking the wife along and/or railing it in the canyons is now so much more enjoyable and safer too!

 

I will add, that you can order the fork parts from Daugherty Motorsports (DMr) and I can help you install them, I have the tools and I'm in the vicinity (Knott Ave. & Ball Rd.). Springs, valves and shims would be the minimum for the front end. I can also supply a donor OEM rear shock if you want to send the shock in for upgrade too. Just give me the one off your bike when you get the one back from DMr. I know it's still spending money but it will be worth it IMO. I can say so far all of us who have upgraded their suspension systems have not regretted it!

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That sounds great Duc2V4! I will keep Daugherty Motorsports (DMr) and you in mind when i'm ready for the upgrade. I will be reading the Racetech Suspension Bible and also research on which parts will be the best fit for me. Do you still remember what your pre-load and rebound settings were for your stock suspension when riding 2up with your wife?

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40 minutes ago, Hongsta said:

That sounds great Duc2V4! I will keep Daugherty Motorsports (DMr) and you in mind when i'm ready for the upgrade. I will be reading the Racetech Suspension Bible and also research on which parts will be the best fit for me. Do you still remember what your pre-load and rebound settings were for your stock suspension when riding 2up with your wife?

Every setup is different as it's based on rider weight and spring rate of your suspension. The only way to get your setup done properly is by following the sag setting procedure. The rebound setting is something that you'll need to play with once your preload is done. The general rule I follow is that if sitting static in your garage and you push down on the seat of the bike, the front and rear should return at about the same rate. If one rises faster, then you add more damping to that end. However, since the rear is the only one with the rebound adjuster, you would be setting this to match the front. In the book they go into better detail on how to adjust the rebound settings, as which way to go will depend on the way the bike handles bumps.

 

 

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Duc is right of course. Upgrade as soon as budget allows. 

 

Meanwhile, if you find the forks bottoming too easily after reducing the preload (put a zip tie around one fork tube to check how much travel you've been using) you can add 5-10 cc's of oil at a time to each fork leg. That's just another stopgap measure but it will firm things up.

 

Just don't do it too many times as you can definitely overfill forks.

 

When measuring fork travel, bear in mind that the 6G has only 109 mm and not the typical 120 or more. 

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My stock suspension never bottomed out even while 2up riding on my VFR, just harsh/bumpy on uneven roads. My SV650 I had before would bottom out and wallow around all the time while 2up riding. Duc, you mentioned you rode with your wife on the stock suspension. Just wondering how you had it setup before you swapped them out. I think it would be beneficial for myself and the rest of the forum to know approximately where the preload/rebound should be on a stock suspension for riding 2up, around the 300 lbs weight range. I searched around an couldn't find an answer.

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I'd purely adjust preload based on sag (as close as you can get to ideal). Rebound you can fine tune while out on a ride. Just keep a screwdriver handy, pull over, adjust, ride, repeat.

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1 hour ago, Hongsta said:

My stock suspension never bottomed out even while 2up riding on my VFR, just harsh/bumpy on uneven roads. My SV650 I had before would bottom out and wallow around all the time while 2up riding. Duc, you mentioned you rode with your wife on the stock suspension. Just wondering how you had it setup before you swapped them out. I think it would be beneficial for myself and the rest of the forum to know approximately where the preload/rebound should be on a stock suspension for riding 2up, around the 300 lbs weight range. I searched around an couldn't find an answer.

Two issues there, one, it was a whole ago and two, it was based on setting the sag to 30mm. How much we weigh would be different, so it actually wouldn't be of much use to most, unless the weight was identical. Long story short, it goes back to hands on setting the sag.

 

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, thtanner said:

I'd purely adjust preload based on sag (as close as you can get to ideal).

 

I'll contend that there is no such thing as "ideal" sag. :goofy:

 

Correct sag is merely finding a happy medium between top-out and bottom-out and that depends on many factors.

 

To get the best out of the VFR's soggy stock springs it is by no means a foregone conclusion that, say 35 mm, is best. Pretty sure there is no way to get the back to 35 mm with 300 lbs of rider and pillion anyway. 

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4 minutes ago, thtanner said:

I managed ~33/35 with my fat self!

 

Unless you weigh well north of their combined 300 lbs you're not loading the back nearly as much as they are. 

 

My guess is you're 240 lbs tops. How far am I ?  :wink:

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1 hour ago, RC36Rider said:

 

Unless you weigh well north of their combined 300 lbs you're not loading the back nearly as much as they are. 

 

My guess is you're 240 lbs tops. How far am I ?  :wink:

 

Maybe 2 years ago! Probably near 280-290 with gear... had an inactive stint, in the process of sorting that out.


Good point on the weight distribution, too

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1 hour ago, Hongsta said:

What would be optimal ranges for sag in the front and rear. I plan on doing this over the weekend.

Read the bible...But if you want a posted average 30-35MM for street riding. 20-25MM for track/racing.

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Thanks Duc, I thought for some reason the front and rear would be setup differently. For example, optimal sag for the front would be 30mm and rears would be 20mm. I'm assuming with the stock suspension sag cannot be in the optimal range riding with 300+lbs without upgrades, guessing more like 40mm even with max-preload. Would it be better to set them at equal sag front and rear? Let's say the fronts were at 40mm with max preload but the rears were at 30mm(optimal) with max preload. Should I soften the rears so they match the fronts or leave them at the optimal 30mm but be uneven front to back?

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The usual guidelines on "ideal" sag assume that the spring and damping rates are also "ideal" and this is hardly the case with the stock boingers and a 300 lbs payload. 

 

My rationale runs something like this: 

 

1. You can achieve "ideal" sag up front but not in the back. My guess is that you actually have more sag than "ideal" at the back and less up front. 

 

2. You may benefit from more sag than "ideal" because the extra weight causes the bike to rebound higher than it would with a solo rider (even a big man) and a topped-out shock doesn't do handling any favours. In my experience, bottoming is not nearly as much of an issue. 

 

For these reasons, I'd rather have the bike running a bit low but level than nose high.

 

Remember that if you adjust preload on one end by more than a trifling amount, you need to measure again at the other end.

 

"Trust but verify" of course. 

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The "Bible" says that the ideal static sag measurement is usually about 1/4 to 1/3 of the total suspension travel, but cautions that this has been derived from testing many different bikes, so is not set in stone.  But whether that "target 1/3" is achieved at 20mm or 30mm would seem to depend on how much total suspension travel the bike actually has.

 

Ciao,

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21 hours ago, thtanner said:

Maybe 2 years ago! Probably near 280-290 with gear... 

 

OK. I (reluctantly) concede that I was way off. :491:

 

I'm surprised that you manage 35 mm of rear sag at that weight. :unsure:

 

Anyway. Good luck with the weight loss. I could lose 20-30 lbs myself but that would require discipline. :laugh:

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